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Avicii's 'Wake Me Up' hits 200 million streams in Spotify. Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 28th February 2014
  #61
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
By the way, in 2014, complimenting a musician like Avicci for using sampled EDM-style kick drums as some sort of unique artistic achievement is mindlessly setting the bar so low, that it's now ... on the floor.
Why do we even need a bar to measure music?
Old 28th February 2014
  #62
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
Lets consider the chord progression in this hit. Its a very typical sequence we've heard a million times with predictable melody. Its not surprising to me that musicians bash music like this - its absolutely lacking in depth or complexity.
But why should all musical elements have to be homogeneously hyper-simplified in order for the musician to make enough money to avoid starvation ? Shouldn't there be at least some room for artistic depth in the mainstream, or has the corridor become so narrow that it can't tolerate any degree of deviation from the predictably derivative norm ?
Old 28th February 2014
  #63
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desire Inspires View Post
Why do we even need a bar to measure music?
My point is that each individual musical artist should be entitled to a unique set of musical standards (and opinions) which allow him or her to set THEIR bar precisely wherever they want.

Ideally, it would result in a top 40 scenario where "Boyfriend" by Bieber coexists alongside a modern day "Pet Sounds" or "Sgt. Peppers".
Old 28th February 2014
  #64
Lives for gear
 

I didn't see anyone in this thread instructing or advising others to blindly praise this pop song.

That's called arguing against a straw man.

Quote:
for using sampled EDM-style kick drums as some sort of unique artistic achievement
In the spirit of "songwriting", this shouldn't bother people as much as it does. Too much ego or identity wrapped up in gear and other artists' choices of gear. Yes, the Linn drum machine was also overused in the 1980s, but people can hear past that and appreciate the hundreds of songs that used it.

If people want to use the free Apple Garageband loops or samples, use them. Just make the song's end result sound good. A good song will be bigger than whatever loop or drum sound you happen to have chosen off the hard drive. Buying a more elite package such as NIBattery/BFD for $999 isn't going to infuse the song with any more "legitimacy." And avoiding both prepackaged solutions to record your own organic version of a drum hit in the basement (please use 100% cotton pillows for muffling instead polyester) doesn't bestow some magical legitimacy or "artistry" either.

As for the song of this thread, I don't like it. The songwriting of constantly cycling the same 3 chords is too repetitive for me. The extended discussion around the recycled drum sounds seems to miss the point of any songwriting critique.
Old 28th February 2014
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GV1 View Post
viral marketing
To some, if it has that, it's deserving of unanimous, unconditional knee-jerk praise. It's as if it's become the sole determinant of modern pop worthiness. The art has been taken out, and it's all about bowing to the latest hyped hot commodity, and if you dare to not jump aboard the hot commodity bandwagon, you are "hating, bashing and jealous".

It's really quite pathetic and mindless, really.
Old 28th February 2014
  #66
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason West View Post
I didn't see anyone in this thread instructing or advising others to blindly praise this pop song.
That's good.

So the amount of praise & hype it's getting will allowed to be counterbalanced by differing opinions based on different standards.
Old 28th February 2014
  #67
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
But why should all musical elements have to be homogeneously hyper-simplified in order for the musician to make enough money to avoid starvation ? Shouldn't there be at least some room for artistic depth in the mainstream, or has the corridor become so narrow that it can't tolerate any degree of deviation from the predictably derivative norm ?
thats a good question...I think there can and has been interesting popular music...thats what musicians should be striving for...IMO...

The problem comes when musicians pander to the lowest common denominator in order to make money or out of laziness...the best thing to do is to push the average listener (and themselves) a little out of their comfort zone - but also keep it accessible and non pretentious...
Old 28th February 2014
  #68
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
So the amount of praise & hype it's getting will allowed to be counterbalanced by differing opinions based on different standards.
Sir, let's be realistic. It's already more than counterbalanced. More people in this thread have already expressed their dislike rather than like for this song.

My point was that you were complaining about a behavior (others beating haters into submission) that isn't happening in this thread. You are arguing against an enemy that isn't even here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
The problem comes when musicians pander to the lowest common denominator in order to make money or out of laziness...
That's a misconception. Musicians aren't pandering. Some musicians actually LOVE to make this type of lowest-common-denominator type of music. It's what they like to hear. It's what the like to create. They would have to betray their own artistic temperament to make the more complex music with "depth" that you prefer.
Old 28th February 2014
  #69
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWAN808 View Post
The problem comes when musicians pander to the lowest common denominator in order to make money or out of laziness...
Lowest common denominator laziness - I like that phrase. The only thing worse than LCDL is the often subsequent demand that everyone respect it and praise it.
Old 28th February 2014
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason West View Post
Sir, let's be realistic. It's already more than counterbalanced. More people in this thread have already expressed their dislike rather than like for this song.

My point was that you were complaining about a behavior (others beating haters into submission) that isn't happening in this thread. You are arguing against an enemy that isn't even here.
The reason why it's not happening (yet) is because of the preventive, aggressive anticipation of it happening.
Old 28th February 2014
  #71
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason West View Post
Some musicians actually LOVE to make this type of lowest-common-denominator type of music.
That's good. I and others sometimes enjoy it too. The question is whether it should solely occupy the mainstream, eradicating the different approaches to musical art, relegating them to starvation and oblivion.
Old 28th February 2014
  #72
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
So, in a polarized response to those you encountered who dared to scrutinize robo-culture, you've embraced a knee-jerk routine of unconditionally praising the latest trendy mega-hit, demanding everyone else does the same. You've got your bullhorn and bullwhip, yelling, "all aboard the bandwagon, and no groaning". That is about as non-conformist as North Korean soldiers marching in step with their army.

But apparently, it's all about the inescapable duty to have trendy bandwagon fun, and mustering up the needed mental effort to appreciate the latest mega-hit, and you will tell us exactly how and when we are supposed to be having fun and how and when our level of appreciation is supposed to be elevated. Apparently, it's based on the numbers. The more Youtube views, the higher the Billboard charting, the greater the profits, the greater the obligation to bow, salute, worship and praise.

What you fail to realize, is that while you are certainly entitled to your own personal musical standards (those of a rabid Wall Street trader eying a hot commodity) there are indeed other standards in existence. Not everyone has to worship at the alter of mainstream myopia (where trendiness + profitability = inherent artistic worth) as you obviously do. It's actually much better (and much less mindless) to see a diverse range of opinions responding to a recently hyped trendy release than it is to herd people into a sort of stampeding culture of uniformity where no individualism or variance is tolerated.

By the way, in 2014, complimenting a musician like Avicci for using sampled EDM-style kick drums as some sort of unique artistic achievement is mindlessly setting the bar so low, that it's now ... on the floor.

Nothing really to refute here, except that you've entirely misrepresented everything I've said. I agree with most of the above.
Old 28th February 2014
  #73
Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Burrito View Post
I stumbled in to Forgotify yesterday. What a holy grail for obscure samples! Most stuff that came was middle eastern pop music from eighties.

But then came something that i doubt that should be there. First was classic punk record from 1985. I seriously doubt it has zero listens as the original vinyl is in high demand. Another one was 22 Pistepirkko and their biggest album to this date. It has all their biggest hits that has sold loads. So either those were uploaded to Spotify just a second before i hit Next on Forgotify or it digs out tracks that are not visible to all. Good resource for sample digging anyways.

[...]
I was expecting to hear more of the kind of thing you said you caught -- and, in fact, this a.m., I got dished up my first ME pop, Turkish, actually, loads of balaiakas, some sort of ME violin, and a couple hundred gallons of reverb and hiss -- I didn't think it was going to win me over, the fi was SUPER low and the sound aa distant as a half-forgotten dream from a long ago vacation, but there was something ultimately kind of compelling about it and I actually added it to my own favorites. (For now. )

On 22 Pistepirkko, for sure, unless one knows the date the album was added to Spot, it's tough to draw any conclusions. (That said, while I was pretty far into punk in the late 70s and into the early 80s, I can't say I'm familiar with that band. But then I'm always coming across bands I didn't know about from back then, so, you know. It was a thousand flowers all coming up after the rain.)
Old 28th February 2014
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
The reason why it's not happening (yet) is because of the preventive, aggressive anticipation of it happening.
haha.... sir, don't delude yourself with self praise of "fighting the good fight."

On gearslutz (and most other music discussion forums), bitching about mainstream pop music is a badge of honor. It's been the sentiment here long before you joined.
Old 28th February 2014
  #75
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Nothing really to refute here, except that you've entirely misrepresented everything I've said. I agree with most of the above.
Interesting response to my characterization of your tendency to defend the latest hyped trend megahit.
Old 28th February 2014
  #76
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason West View Post
haha.... sir, don't delude yourself with self praise of "fighting the good fight."

On gearslutz (and most other music discussion forums), bitching about mainstream pop music is a badge of honor. It's been the sentiment here long before you joined.
And don't delude yourself into thinking the bandwagoneering isn't happening in the (mass media) culture at large, when in fact, it's on steroids. A few pockets of subversiveness shouldn't blind you.
Old 28th February 2014
  #77
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Ok, I'm done here for a while, my personal opinion is that this song isn't horrid or great, but simply average : 2.5 stars out of 5. That's one opinion.

Now let's hear all other possible opinions on this song in question, and whether this song is worthy of the hype.
Old 28th February 2014
  #78
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
Interesting response to my characterization of your tendency to defend the latest hyped trend megahit.
It's exactly the "characterization" that leaves me without much to say. You're not refuting any of my points, you're creating some other "character" and arguing with him.
Old 28th February 2014
  #79
Gear Maniac
 

Ok got round to listening to it..

Step 1 buy Tracy chapman album
Step 2 listen to it. A lot
Step 3 write song, add modern EDM production.
Bingo!

Not something I'd buy or listen to but it's ok I guess.
Old 28th February 2014
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
And don't delude yourself into thinking the bandwagoneering isn't happening in the (mass media) culture at large,
Of course it is. That's what "mainstream pop" actually is. Of course there's bandwagoneering out there. It's tautology. Otherwise, it wouldn't be "mainstream pop".

But the "culture at large" is not the participant here in this particular thread. You're fighting (or preemptively fighting) an enemy that isn't here in this thread.

You should assume that the default position of most here is: "I'm the enlightened musician who doesn't like the current state of pop music."

Trust me, YOU ARE NOT ALONE! haha
Old 28th February 2014
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
It's exactly the "characterization" that leaves me without much to say. You're not refuting any of my points, you're creating some other "character" and arguing with him.
Maybe you're in denial about your (now conveniently abandoned and apparently previous) tendency to demand respect for (and not tolerate criticism of) the latest hyped, trendy, popular music release.

Ch-ch-ch-ch changes.
Old 28th February 2014
  #82
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Herr Weiss's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
What bothers me are all the entitled musicians who think they are owed something because they are musicians. How about they start writing great music that people will want to buy? They can't, because they're not good enough, that's the bottom line. So instead they bash the popular artists. It's sickening really.

I am so confused. Is this referring about yourself or somebody else?


HW
Old 1st March 2014
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason West View Post
Of course it is. That's what "mainstream pop" actually is. Of course there's bandwagoneering out there. It's tautology. Otherwise, it wouldn't be "mainstream pop".

But the "culture at large" is not the participant here in this particular thread. You're fighting (or preemptively fighting) an enemy that isn't here in this thread.

You should assume that the default position of most here is: "I'm the enlightened musician who doesn't like the current state of pop music."

Trust me, YOU ARE NOT ALONE! haha

First of all, sir, you are ignoring the fact that the initiation of this thread alone in this forum is evidence that the bandwagoneering and promotional hype isn't just out there, it's also in here and has likely occurred in here 1000's of times.

You are also ignoring the fact that the thread isn't over, in fact it will likely never be over, and only if it had a finite end (or severely fizzled out) could you firmly ascertain whether the majority of it's participants had a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the song in question.

IOW, you are vastly underestimating the degree to which bandwagoneering has infiltrated and permeated sources you falsely (and naively) view as immune to bandwagoneering.
Old 1st March 2014
  #84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason West View Post
haha.... sir, don't delude yourself with self praise of "fighting the good fight."

On gearslutz (and most other music discussion forums), bitching about mainstream pop music is a badge of honor. It's been the sentiment here long before you joined.
Well... I've been bitching about mainstream pop since it was actually good.




heh
Old 1st March 2014
  #85
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason West View Post
Of course it is. That's what "mainstream pop" actually is. Of course there's bandwagoneering out there. It's tautology. Otherwise, it wouldn't be "mainstream pop".

But the "culture at large" is not the participant here in this particular thread. You're fighting (or preemptively fighting) an enemy that isn't here in this thread.

You should assume that the default position of most here is: "I'm the enlightened musician who doesn't like the current state of pop music."

Trust me, YOU ARE NOT ALONE! haha
Hmm. I've always been a pop FAN first and foremost. I'm a pop FAN who doesn't like the current state of pop music. And watching this Avici video would really illustrate why. He know his tools etc but everything he's doing is so codified and formula by rote. There is no expression in there. No art. No humanity. It's product. Pop music has always had an element of that but that's now all it is. It's sad and a waste.
Old 1st March 2014
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Well... I've been bitching about mainstream pop since it was actually good.




heh
Was that you, bashing "Another Brick In The Wall" decades ago ? Was that you accusing Pink Floyd of selling out ??

I knew it !!
Old 1st March 2014
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
First of all, sir, you are ignoring the fact that the initiation of this thread alone in this forum is evidence that the bandwagoneering and promotional hype isn't just out there,
It's not evidence. The op (El-Burrito) posted the datapoint that this was Spotify's most played-on-demand song. If you actually read his words, you would have noticed he wasn't hyping this song. (He didn't like the vocals).

Quote:
and has likely occurred in here 1000's of times.
nope.

Quote:
You are also ignoring the fact that the thread isn't over, in fact it will likely never be over, and only if it had a finite end (or severely fizzled out) could you firmly ascertain whether the majority of it's participants had a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the song in question.
There are only a dozen or so threads that have a mainstream pop song as its topic. All are overwhelmingly overrun with your type of sentiment. (Trust me YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!!)

I could challenge you to try and find a thread here that was weighted towards positive praise of mainstream pop but since I'm a nice guy, I won't waste your time having you chase unicorns. Let me repeat, they don't exist.

Quote:
IOW, you are vastly underestimating the degree to which bandwagoneering has infiltrated and permeated sources you falsely (and naively) view as immune to bandwagoneering.
Hey, I can only say again that gearslutz community (as a whole) is impervious to mainstream pop bandwagoneering. But, if you don't want to take my word for it, just stick around and you can bask in all the pop bashing brotherhood. (Trust me YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Well... I've been bitching about mainstream pop since it was actually good.
Good news for you! There's a new member here ready to carry the torch. Save your tired keyboard typing fingers. Let the young ones fight the good fight for you!
Old 1st March 2014
  #88
Gear Nut
 

I do believe that many writers of this kind of "lowest common denominator" pop really do enjoy and get satisfaction from their work. However, I think part of the problem is that some of these writers only know how to use certain chord progressions/melodies because they have hit a plateau in terms of their musical knowledge that limits the variety of songs they can write. I think if they were to learn a little more about theory (for example, maybe throw in a diminished chord or some secondary dominants), their creative output would increase in variety and musicality. The thing is, it's not like using those more advanced kind of chord progressions is inherently less poppy...it's just a matter of how you use them. I'm not asking for a jazz standard level of harmony, but a few twists and turns here and there would really help, while still remaining extremely pop and enjoyable to the casual listener.
Old 1st March 2014
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celerity View Post
I do believe that many writers of this kind of "lowest common denominator" pop really do enjoy and get satisfaction from their work. However, I think part of the problem is that some of these writers only know how to use certain chord progressions/melodies because they have hit a plateau in terms of their musical knowledge that limits the variety of songs they can write.
This is a fair point. It's plausible reasoning why some musicians make boring music. The "limited music knowledge" is a legitimate point as opposed to the others' claims about "pandering" which is nonsense and misunderstands why other musicians like what they like and do what they do.
Old 1st March 2014
  #90
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason West View Post
This is a fair point. It's plausible reasoning why some musicians make boring music. The "limited music knowledge" is a legitimate point as opposed to the others' claims about "pandering" which is nonsense and misunderstands why other musicians like what they like and do what they do.
I agree, and I'd even take it one step further and say that it's nearly impossible to "pander" as a songwriter (as far as the music is concerned). Even if you start a new song and plan on pandering to a certain crowd, writing with only certain chords or whatever, inevitably your own songwriting style is going to shine through in some way. At some point in the writing process, you'll have a bit of inspiration, and add a few things that you enjoy. At that point, is the song really pandering, or is it just another one of your songs that happens to fit a certain demographic very well? I'd suggest the latter.
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