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Avicii's 'Wake Me Up' hits 200 million streams in Spotify. Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 7th March 2014
  #421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
The key word from my post is "context." Objective perspectives require context.

In the objective context of contribution to music and historical significance, Bach is amazing.

In whatever subjective context anyone would like to view him in, he's whatever they want.
Saying "I don't like it, but it's amazing for a metal song" is not being subjective, then objective. It's being subjective twice. This person didn't say "I don't like it, but this band contributed greatly to the genre of heavy metal".
Old 7th March 2014
  #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
The key word from my post is "context." Objective perspectives require context.

In the objective context of contribution to music and historical significance, Bach is amazing.
If there is not unanimous consensus on the stipulated qualifiers, then the supposed objectivity is erased. If someone doesn't value the musical elements Bach brought to the table, then he is meaningless to them, irrelevant with his lofty figured bass note barrage, and they will discard the refined aspects of his approach. Bach is then trashed and ignored.

It's not what I support, but in the realm of art, there is no universal objectivity, especially if a given artist wants to rebel against the "contribution to music and historical significance" manifested by the "Amazing" figure in question, who may just be viewed as a relic. An ornament. A dinosaur.

It's a sad but true scenario. A scenario I do not support in an artistic sense, for it is nihilistic, anarchistic and destructive.
Old 7th March 2014
  #423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv_hiphop View Post
Saying "I don't like it, but it's amazing for a metal song" is not being subjective, then objective. It's being subjective twice.
Correct !
Old 7th March 2014
  #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv_hiphop View Post
Saying "I don't like it, but it's amazing for a metal song" is not being subjective, then objective. It's being subjective twice. This person didn't say "I don't like it, but this band contributed greatly to the genre of heavy metal".
True. Thanks for clarifying, I was assuming a song that significantly impacted the world within the context, not a random metal track.

Like "wake me up," objectively within the context of impacting the 2014 music world, it's fantastic, breaking records. Subjectively it's whatever you like.
Old 7th March 2014
  #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Like "wake me up," objectively within context it's fantastic, breaking records.
Breaking records ? That's a numerical standard, which would be a quantifier, and much easier to get a unanimous consensus on.
Old 7th March 2014
  #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
Breaking records ? That's a numerical standard, which would be a quantifier, and much easier to get a unanimous consensus on.
Yep, it's a solid objective measure of how strongly the song connected with the 2014 music audience.
Old 7th March 2014
  #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Yep, it's a solid objective measure of how strongly the song connected with the 2014 music audience.
And that numerical quantification (hypestorm crowd reaction) doesn't impose or necessitate any sort of universally mandatory qualitative assessment.
Old 7th March 2014
  #428
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One thing I have to give Avicii credit for is that he's a very smart guy. By collaborating with actual talented musicians, he's extended his 15 minutes into maybe an hour or two.
Old 7th March 2014
  #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
And that numerical quantification (hypestorm crowd reaction) doesn't impose or necessitate any sort of universally mandatory qualitative assessment.
It measures the quality of connect-ability, and whatever attributes lead it to be more connective, in the context of 2014 music. That is a universal fact. It's not a measure of anything else though.
Old 7th March 2014
  #430
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Ultimately, people are entitled to make their opinionated qualitative assessment based on their personal preferences, frame of reference and relative judgmental standards. IOW, they are entitled to entirely ignore sales numbers if they so please, and just evaluate the content according to what they value as relatively important to the paradigm they want to build.
Old 7th March 2014
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
Ultimately, people are entitled to make their opinionated qualitative assessment based on their personal preferences, frame of reference and relative judgmental standards. IOW, they are entitled to entirely ignore sales numbers if they so please, and just evaluate the content according to what they value as relatively important to the paradigm they want to build.
Yes. That would be the subjective side of things.
Old 7th March 2014
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
It measures the quality of connect-ability, and whatever attributes lead it to be more connective, in the context of 2014 music. That is a universal fact. It's not a measure of anything else though.
"Connect-ability" is fleeting, and not necessarily of predominant importance. You might value it more than others though, as they might value it less than you. If you want to worship at the alter of record sales, then go ahead and pursue the social-numerical frenzy.
Old 7th March 2014
  #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Yes. That would be the subjective side of things.
So, learn to separate the extremely objective numerical realm from the deeper and more nebulous subjective realm.
Old 7th March 2014
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
"Connect-ability" is fleeting, and not necessarily of predominant importance. You might value it more than others though, as they might value it less than you. If you want to worship at the alter of record sales, then go ahead and pursue the social-numerical frenzy.
I was talking objective measurements and nothing more. Reading comprehension. .
Old 7th March 2014
  #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
I was talking objective measurements and nothing more. Reading comprehension. .
It's more a matter of extrapolation than comprehension, something you don't comprehend very well.
Old 7th March 2014
  #436
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I have noticed newguy1 tends to want to link (and confuse) quantitative assessments with qualitative ones. Best to separate the 2.
Old 7th March 2014
  #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
I was talking objective measurements and nothing more. Reading comprehension. .
+1 for newguy. I agree with many of your points, eldon, but you really did miss what newguy was saying.
Old 7th March 2014
  #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fidelity castro View Post
+1 for newguy. I agree with many of your points, eldon, but you really did miss what newguy was saying.
Actually, no, the larger picture (and great danger) is his (hopefully previous, not continual) implication that quantifiable sales numbers demand respect in the realm of quality assessments. They are mutually distinct.
Old 7th March 2014
  #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
Actually, no, the larger picture (and great danger) is his (hopefully previous, not continual) implication that quantifiable sales numbers demand respect in the realm of quality assessments. They are mutually distinct.
I don't see where he inferred anything about the actual quality of the song from the sales numbers. He's just saying that the high sales show that the song connected with a huge audience.
Old 7th March 2014
  #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fidelity castro View Post
I don't see where he inferred anything about the actual quality of the song from the sales numbers. He's just saying that the high sales show that the song connected with a huge audience.
He has stated the obvious then ? That higher sales numbers = more people connect to the song ? Wow. What insight ! Who ever countered that ?

He still has demonstrated a sly, implicit, barely noticeable but longstanding tendency to want numerical impact recognition to be followed up by subsequent praise in the area of qualitative assessment.

As long as it's established that the latter doesn't have to follow the former.
Old 7th March 2014
  #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
He has stated the obvious then ? That higher sales numbers = more people connect to the song ? Wow. What insight ! Who ever countered that ?

He still has demonstrated a sly, implicit, barely noticeable but longstanding tendency to want numerical impact recognition to be followed up by subsequent praise in the area of qualitative assessment.

As long as it's established that the latter doesn't have to follow the former.
I don't think you'll get anywhere with him. Another factor to consider is that perhaps working in pop for so long has altered his taste negatively, beyond recovery.
Old 7th March 2014
  #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv_hiphop View Post
I don't think you'll get anywhere with him. Another factor to consider is that perhaps working in pop for so long has altered his taste negatively, beyond recovery.
That's a distinct possibility I can't casually dismiss.
Old 7th March 2014
  #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fidelity castro View Post
. I agree with many of your points, eldon, but you really did miss what newguy was saying.
I agree with many of his points as well. My sole issue is that he's aggressively attacking a misrepresentation of what I and a few others on here are saying.
Old 7th March 2014
  #444
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
I agree with many of his points as well. My sole issue is that he's aggressively attacking a misrepresentation of what I and a few others on here are saying.
Haha don't argue with someone who likes to argue!!
Old 7th March 2014
  #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Haha don't argue with someone who likes to argue!!
Your opinions on good pop are virtually meaningless to me, sad to say.
Old 7th March 2014
  #446
Quote:
Originally Posted by luv_hiphop View Post
Your opinions on good pop are virtually meaningless to me, sad to say.
Haha nice, thanks. Whoever you are.
Old 7th March 2014
  #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
My sole issue is that he's aggressively attacking a misrepresentation of what I and a few others on here are saying.
It's not a total misrepresentation though, it is at most, a slightly embellished characterization enhanced with a jazz improvisation style supplemented by justifiably extrapolated anticipation of your contribution to pop music paradigm stagnation.

Just because I'm not delivering verbatim quote softballs, in the realm of conversational checkers (adhering strictly to elementary notions of 1-dimensional logical discourse), doesn't mean I'm necessarily at the level of total misrepresentation.

IOW, it's not all about presumed appropriate argumentative tactics, but is more about long-term strategy and subsequent pop music paradigm impact.
Old 7th March 2014
  #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Haha don't argue with someone who likes to argue!!
But the person you happen to be advising not to argue (newguy1) actually loves to argue in the most presumptuously dogmatic, conventionally conformist, unimaginatively shallow, and sporadically Randian manner possible.
Old 7th March 2014
  #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
No. It's really not.
Yes, it really is. This is a fact about what the world is like, about what sorts of things there are in the world and where they're located. It's also about the upshots of those facts, about what it even refers to to be right or wrong about something, etc.
Quote:
Bach was good.
Where is "Bach is good" located? What is it a property of and/or what are the specific properties?
Old 7th March 2014
  #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cetera View Post
wow.. uh to rewind a bit: i think you can objectively define what makes a good pop song!
Since your comments below suggest to me that you're not using a definition I recognize, can I ask you how you're defining "objective"?
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