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Avicii's 'Wake Me Up' hits 200 million streams in Spotify. Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 6th March 2014
  #361
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
Tricks and gimmicks, chasing a slowly moving target. That's the easy part. "What's next" is likely very much the same as what has been recently established and documented. There is no paradigm shift.

Mimic the "Applause" tune via mechanical construction.

1) Find the current average (mathematically calculated) top 40 tempo.

2) Realize that a pounding quarter note kick pulse is the basis of the "groove". It should come in and out at 1 or 2 locations in the song, sometimes very enhanced with sub-bass when it returns.

3) Pick a minor chord. Stick to it. Only use the bVII and bVI chords as colorful variations alongside the i chord.

4) Build the melody via minor pentatonic scale single note repeats and riffing. Emphasize the root note a lot.(Eg.r=root:r r r r b3 b3 5 5 r b3 r r r b3 r r - use the b7th and 4th scale degrees only as colorful variants). The rhythmic phrasing should be quarter and eighth notes, ta - ta - ti-ti - ta. Try sixteenth notes only at your own risk.

5) The chorus does not have to change chords, but definitely change the melodic sequence a little.

5a) Bridges are basically obsolete and viewed as unnecessary

6) A little less autotune on the vocal track than was prevalent 3 years ago, a nice moderate amount.

7) Make the lyrical content only about frivolous (non-romantic) relationships and/or partying it up with the crowd.

8) Put a softsynth instrumental break in there (with the variant chords) at or around the halfway point, maybe once more near the end, maybe even at the beginning. It should just be a chord texture, or with a very simple lead riff on top.

9) The bassline should be very simple.

10) The mix should have many many tracks, and doubled tracks, making it congested. Don't forget to quantize to the extreme.

11) Have the mastering process bloat the sheet of rice paper to the extreme with a mega-dose of LOUD AND CLEAR steroid tools. Is it loud enough ? Never !


That's the easy part.

The next step is to get it past the scouts, the alligators in the moat, past the soldiers at the main castle door, in to meet the king (or sub-king) executive, and sign the not so clear not so beneficial contract.

Good luck in playing the game.

And remember, there is a certain preexisting enshrined seniority in place for other writers who you can't bypass. They have the right of way.
Hi Eldon, thanks for the manual, it is totally wrong though.
How can you post something like this? Did you even bother to check it against current Top10?

If you want to be taken seriously, you shouldn't just write stuff, which is obviously false.

Here are the first five of the current Billboard Hot 100:
1. Happy - Pharrell
2. Dark Horse - Katy Perry
3. Talk Dirty - Jason Derulo
4. All of me - John Legend
5. Pompeii - Bastille

Listen to the songs, most points on your "manual" simply do not apply.
Old 6th March 2014
  #362
Quote:
Originally Posted by cetera View Post
oh thats not to say that i'm bored with all the melodies in the hot 100 recently. a few of them hit the spot. locked out of heaven, beauty and a beat, a bunch of stuff from capital cities (but do they really count?) a bunch of slightly old rihanna stuff, some skrillex and avicii (sometimes they hit on decent instrumental melodies) dont wake me up (as opposed to wake me up) some katy perry and kesha. dont you worry child (although only the SWM version is enjoyable for me) this is a pathetic list but it's just off my head. my point is i think i like a melody here and there in modern pop.

in terms of past melodies that could still be contenders in todays market...

i think it climaxed in the 80s. it's hard to find hits with weak melodies from that decade. so i'll just lump in most of the hot 100 from each of those years. but the 60s and 70s had a ton of strong ones too.

some standouts are the beatles and nirvana, who seemed to be able to churn out these melody-based numbers where the lyrics and the music style truly didn't matter. queen is another master class in pop melody.
Funny, because I hate "don't you worry child" , I find it cheesy as hell.

And when I hear "locked out of heaven" I can only think of Yes - Owner of the lonely heart for some reason. Which is obviously better
Old 6th March 2014
  #363
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquez View Post
Hi Eldon, thanks for the manual, it is totally wrong though.
How can you post something like this? Did you even bother to check it against current Top10?

If you want to be taken seriously, you shouldn't just write stuff, which is obviously false.

Here are the first five of the current Billboard Hot 100:
1. Happy - Pharrell
2. Dark Horse - Katy Perry
3. Talk Dirty - Jason Derulo
4. All of me - John Legend
5. Pompeii - Bastille

Listen to the songs, most points on your "manual" simply do not apply.
A slightly greater emphasis on old-school approaches can be re-established at any time by artists with slightly greater old-school tendencies (momentary or otherwise), but those songs represent more of an exception anyways to the previous 14 year trend and pop music paradigm. For every one you mention, a Nicki Minaj song, LMFAO songs, Jump Around by House Pain, Miley Cyrus, Lady Gaga, Kesha, Bieber, etc. could be a mountain of evidence against the exceptions (which prove the rule).
Old 6th March 2014
  #364
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepc0re View Post
Funny, because I hate "don't you worry child" , I find it cheesy as hell.

And when I hear "locked out of heaven" I can only think of Yes - Owner of the lonely heart for some reason. Which is obviously better
i agree on the former! i think the instrumental part again sort of beats the vocal. it took me a long time to warm up to the song and i would still never submit it a great song or anything.

and on the latter, oh yea, it's totally derivative, definitely a lost police song or something.
Old 6th March 2014
  #365
Quote:
Originally Posted by cetera View Post
and on the latter, oh yea, it's totally derivative, definitely a lost police song or something.
ah yeah its roxanne!
Old 6th March 2014
  #366
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquez View Post
1. Happy - Pharrell
2. Dark Horse - Katy Perry
3. Talk Dirty - Jason Derulo
4. All of me - John Legend
5. Pompeii - Bastille
1) Not bad old school Retro, slightly more imaginative wrt chord pattern, melody and structure than the 21st century pop music standard, - reliance on monotone rhythm-based melody in chorus. 'B'

2) Laughable bassline, melodically decentish, crutch derivative chord pattern later, obligatory rap verse, nothing great at all, very grating towards the end. Typically vacuous Katy fare delivering consumer goods. 'C-'

3) Trash mono-bass with pseudo-egyptian cheese gimmick - intellectually vacant, melodically railroaded and empty, loaded with gimmicks to distract from lack of melodic and harmonic ideas/development. 'D'

4) John legend is a blatantly retro old schooler, 1970's reincarnate like bruno mars (i like them both), he's not really a 21st century pop music representative, but more of a time machine to escape from it. 'B'

5) Another weak, derivative crutch chord pattern and predictably railroaded melody. At least the drums add something, but really, it's frivolous disposable music heard many time before in the last decade. 'C-'


(All IMO, and neither wrong nor right in any mandatory universal sense)
Old 6th March 2014
  #367
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
3) Trash mono-bass with pseudo-egyptian cheese gimmick - intellectually vacant, melodically railroaded and empty, loaded with gimmicks to distract from lack of melodic and harmonic ideas/development. 'D'
If you didn't know, this song is not even original! It's just a blatantly ripped sample with almost nothing added... In that light, it drops to an F+ for me.
Old 6th March 2014
  #368
Lives for gear
 
Carnalia Barcus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepc0re View Post
If you go a step deeper than that you have the society, childhood, age etc which form your tastes.
Environment can influence your tastes, but not actually form them. It's a factor of your individual brain and how it works.
Quote:
that taste comes and is formed from somewhere and not a black hole.
Right, it comes from the way your brain works. That's not a black hole.
Old 6th March 2014
  #369
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepc0re View Post
And when I hear "locked out of heaven" I can only think of Yes - Owner of the lonely heart for some reason. Which is obviously better
Actually, it's more of a blatantly retro old school early 1980's homage to Sting & The Police, which is why he got Sting to sing it for him live recently (and it was quite good).

Bruno Mars is a time machine back to the past, a gifted & magical performer, great singer, average writer.

(all IMO, without any mandatory universal application)
Old 6th March 2014
  #370
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fidelity castro View Post
If you didn't know, this song is not even original! It's just a blatantly ripped sample with almost nothing added... In that light, it drops to an F+ for me.
Perhaps I was a tad generous.

Songwriting-wise, it's definitely a mechanically constructed sheet of rice paper bloated by production steroids. Can't say I'd want to hear it again.
Old 6th March 2014
  #371
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
1) Not bad old school Retro, slightly more imaginatave wrt chord pattern, melody and structure than the 21st century pop music standard, - reliance on monotone rhythm-based melody in chorus. 'B'

2) Laughable bassline, melodically decentish, crutch derivative chord pattern later, obligatory rap verse, nothing great at all, very grating towards the end. Typically vacuous Katy fare delivering consumer goods. 'C-'

3) Trash mono-bass with pseudo-egyptian cheese gimmick - intellectually vacant, melodically railroaded and empty, loaded with gimmicks to distract from lack of melodic and harmonic ideas/development. 'D'

4) John legend is a blatantly retro old schooler, 1970's reincarnate like bruno mars (i like them both), he's not really a 21st century pop music representative, but more of a time machine to escape from it. 'B'

5) Another weak, derivative crutch chord pattern and predictably railroaded melody. At least the drums add something, but really, it's frivolous disposable music heard many time before in the last decade. 'C-'


(All IMO, and neither wrong nor right in any mandatory universal sense)
Old 6th March 2014
  #372
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquez View Post
Oh, and I'm so hurt by your differing personal opinion.
Old 6th March 2014
  #373
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fidelity castro View Post
If you didn't know, this song is not even original! It's just a blatantly ripped sample with almost nothing added... In that light, it drops to an F+ for me.

Its not blatantly ripped, its a cleared sample of ""Hermetico". Tamir Muskat and Ori Kaplan are credited songwriters.
Old 6th March 2014
  #374
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
Can't say I'd want to hear it again.
This also applies to your posts (exchange "hear" with "read").
Old 6th March 2014
  #375
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Its not blatantly ripped, its a cleared sample of ""Hermetico". Tamir Muskat and Ori Kaplan are credited songwriters.
I know it was cleared, what I meant by blatantly ripped (note that I didn't say "ripped off") is that they didn't even do anything to it, they basically just dropped it on the grid and said "well, that's it. Bring Jason in."
Old 6th March 2014
  #376
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Its not blatantly ripped, its a cleared sample of ""Hermetico". Tamir Muskat and Ori Kaplan are credited songwriters.
Derivative, vacuous & mechanical manifestation of low-bar / no-bar musical art (I use the last term lightly).

If you insist on demanding serious respect from informed individuals for obnoxious musical frivolity, you're barking up the wrong tree (likely without even realizing it).
Old 6th March 2014
  #377
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquez View Post
This also applies to your posts (exchange "hear" with "read").
You are clearly having a hyper-sensitive quasi-allergic reaction to my personal opinions on music... maybe you should stop punishing yourself by reading them ?

Just a thought.
Old 6th March 2014
  #378
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fidelity castro View Post
I know it was cleared, what I meant by blatantly ripped (note that I didn't say "ripped off") is that they didn't even do anything to it, they basically just dropped it on the grid and said "well, that's it. Bring Jason in."

That's one of the foundations of hip hop, looping out a bit of an old track, updating the drums, and writing a new song on it.

Does every hip hop song done this way get an automatic "F" in your book? There are 1000s.
Old 6th March 2014
  #379
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
That's one of the foundations of hip hop, looping out a bit of an old track, updating the drums, and writing a new song on it.

Does every hip hop song done this way get an automatic "F" in your book? There are 1000s.
Why demand he change his opinion to suit yours ? Maybe if the hip-hop manifestations weren't so mindlessly mainstream...
Old 6th March 2014
  #380
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
Why demand he change his opinion to suit yours ? Maybe if the hip-hop manifestations weren't so mindlessly mainstream...
Online Course: Reading Comprehension 101 - Certificate and CEUs
Old 6th March 2014
  #381
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
That's one of the foundations of hip hop, looping out a bit of an old track, updating the drums, and writing a new song on it.

Does every hip hop song done this way get an automatic "F" in your book? There are 1000s.
No, I don't dislike songs simply due to them containing samples. The thing is, Jason Derulo has undoubtedly had some fairly generic songs, musically speaking. In fact, that's probably a good summary of his discography till now: it's totally average pop. Now this song comes along, and I think, "Wow, Jason is really trying something a bit different, great job!" Then I find out it's just a sample, and that appreciation diminishes. That's why I rated that song poorly. What could have been the special, odd one out sort of song was actually just a straight ripoff.
Old 6th March 2014
  #382
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
<snip>
You consistently have a problem when people provide more negative assessments of songs than you'd deliver, it's really as if you want to extinguish them because you fail to comprehend them and/or tolerate them.

You keep misunderstanding opinions by confusing them with factual statements, causing your subsequent desire to intervene and attempt a logical refutation of them. It's really quite silly and inappropriate. Dropping the obsession with applying objectivist semantics and rigidly inflexible Randian definitions might help you and your issues.
Old 6th March 2014
  #383
Quote:
Originally Posted by fidelity castro View Post
I know it was cleared, what I meant by blatantly ripped (note that I didn't say "ripped off") is that they didn't even do anything to it, they basically just dropped it on the grid and said "well, that's it. Bring Jason in."
So what? If the sample is cleared then it's fair game. So many hip-hop producers have made careers off of sampling.
Old 6th March 2014
  #384
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Its not blatantly ripped, its a cleared sample of ""Hermetico". Tamir Muskat and Ori Kaplan are credited songwriters.
They did a great job working that sample into a new song.

They also came up with a very nice melody on the verse and pre chorus, all over just one chord.
Writing an interesting and yet catchy melody over just one chord can be much harder than writing over chord progressions.
If you have just one chord, there is no hiding spot for any weak part in the melody.
Old 6th March 2014
  #385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnalia Barcus View Post
Environment can influence your tastes, but not actually form them. It's a factor of your individual brain and how it works.Right, it comes from the way your brain works. That's not a black hole.
Well I guess that comes down to if you believe that you are born with a predetermined personality, have a soul etc. I believe we are born more or less equal but our environment forms us upon how we react.
Old 6th March 2014
  #386
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fidelity castro View Post
No, I don't dislike songs simply due to them containing samples. The thing is, Jason Derulo has undoubtedly had some fairly generic songs, musically speaking. In fact, that's probably a good summary of his discography till now: it's totally average pop. Now this song comes along, and I think, "Wow, Jason is really trying something a bit different, great job!" Then I find out it's just a sample, and that appreciation diminishes. That's why I rated that song poorly. What could have been the special, odd one out sort of song was actually just a straight ripoff.
Gotcha. Most all of his hits have been samples, so I feel you there. Couldn't originally tell if you were making a blanket critique.

I personally feel there's value in turning samples into new songs. Many are trying, few are succeeding even close to Derulo's level, much less repeatedly, so I give him respect there. He's not my favorite though.
Old 6th March 2014
  #387
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Couldn't originally tell if you were making a blanket critique.
Gotta intervene, lest someone dare make a blanket critique upsetting newguy1.

Unbelievable.
Old 7th March 2014
  #388
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
So what? If the sample is cleared then it's fair game. So many hip-hop producers have made careers off of sampling.
There can (and should) be more to hip-hop besides sampling, and maybe if the specific sampling in question isn't impressing the listener, and there isn't much else besides the specific sampling impressing the listener as well, then maybe the listener doesn't have to salute the final song.
Old 7th March 2014
  #389
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquez View Post
They did a great job working that sample into a new song.

They also came up with a very nice melody on the verse and pre chorus, all over just one chord.
Writing an interesting and yet catchy melody over just one chord can be much harder than writing over chord progressions.
If you have just one chord, there is no hiding spot for any weak part in the melody.
So everyone has to find it "nice & interesting & catchy" or you feel the compulsion to intervene and label their opinion as 'wrong' ? That's like someone trying to impose their personal & subjective opinion that it is "melodically lame, harmonically boring and relentlessly obnoxious, irritating & grating" on you.

You and newguy1 suffer from the same inability to comprehend and tolerate differing opinions and different reactions to art.

Not everyone has the same frame of reference or judgmental standards, nor is it required they do.

Opinions are not factual statements. They are interpretive, subjective, personal and relative.
Old 7th March 2014
  #390
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldon2975 View Post
There can (and should) be more to hip-hop besides sampling, and maybe if the specific sampling in question isn't impressing the listener, and there isn't much else besides the specific sampling impressing the listener as well, then maybe the listener doesn't have to salute the final song.
No use, He can´t see what you are replying (ignore list)

Anyway. I don´t like this Talk dirty song either but I don´t think there is anything wrong with using a loop or sample straight forward as long as you manage to add something else and new to it.
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