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Post your rough demos
Old 17th February 2017
  #2401
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wagtunes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz View Post
Thanks Wag. I appreciate your enthusiasm as I'm sure others do as well.

Interesting that you focused on the guitar. I agree, guitar needs to be handled better. There were a number of guitar tracks that ranged from pretty cool to WTF?

Maybe I'll try to compress it and have it sit in the mix a bit better.

The song itself needs to have more variety or something but that is the songwriters job. Only so much a player or producer can do.

Anyway, appreciate your taking the time to listen and comment.

One funny thing I remember was that before we started the artist insisted everyone have a shot of whiskey or whatever it was. I don't drink and it was 10:00 in the morning so...there you have it.
May I ask how long you've been in the business?
Old 17th February 2017
  #2402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz View Post
45 years but there were significant periods of break.
Wow, so you've been doing this a little longer (40 years) than me. I started in 1977. It has been one insane ride.
Old 17th February 2017
  #2403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
May I ask how long you've been in the business?
My apologies. This is actually more personal than I think I would like posted. Its not really a straight-forward thing. Nothing in my life is or ever has been. That's just the way it is.
Old 17th February 2017
  #2404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz View Post
My apologies. This is actually more personal than I think I would like posted. Its not really a straight-forward thing. Nothing in my life is or ever has been. That's just the way it is.

I'm sorry. It wasn't my intention to upset you or anything. I promise I won't ask anymore personal questions.

Please accept my apologies.
Old 17th February 2017
  #2405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
I'm sorry. It wasn't my intention to upset you or anything. I promise I won't ask anymore personal questions.

Please accept my apologies.
No problem. I just prefer to keep the focus on music and leave the personal out. Thank you for understanding.
Old 17th February 2017
  #2406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz View Post
No problem. I just prefer to keep the focus on music and leave the personal out. Thank you for understanding.
Hey, no problem. Music's what it's all about.

Keep those demos coming. I still got two decent ears. LOL.
Old 17th February 2017
  #2407
Gear Nut
 

enlightenment short lived

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
_______________________________________

After being told he can't sing and that his 'Industrial' song is some kind of a 'joke'; poor guy left and never came back.

~HW
So Herr Weiss, your back to dredging up old posts and picking on Wagtunes again. Your post was designed to antagonise Wagtunes.
please stop trying to wind-up Wagtunes.
Dakoda Sada.
Old 17th February 2017
  #2408
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
Okay, I redid it and there's no point in reposting it. It sounds horrible. The problem is not the length of the syllable. it's his emphasis on the "er". The women aren't too bad but he's terrible. It is so overdone. And when you shorten it, all it does it make is sound like it was shortened.

The version that's up there now is as good as this one's gonna get.

Sorry, did my best.
Wagtunes, this is why I suggested maybe using Melodyne on the Vocaloid
singing. Not so much for the tuning , as I'm sure Vocaloid does as good a job there as any computer app. but instead for the timing and articulation control in Melodyne, if you can't get the control your after in Vocaloid etc.

Dakoda.
Old 17th February 2017
  #2409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardis View Post
OK look telling a guy that it seems his purpose in life is he to wake up in the morning to troll a thread after eating breakfast, isn't a bit nasty?.... Look it up if you didn't post it. I don't need to go into the Wayback machine....

Look I really don't care, but I don't like piling on and I've never seen the guy say anyone's music sucked or was bad. Others have, so draw your own conclusions. It bothered me at the time, and I said something. I think you guys are doing a passive aggressive pile on (like making cracks about what I'm a fan of). One man's opinion. Like I said have fun making music....
Wow, wow, wow, I never said it was "his purpose in life", that is you putting words in my mouth, what I said was it appeared that ragging on Wag had become part of his daily routine. NOT HIS PURPOSE IN LIFE. That is how it seemed to me, that having a dig at Wag was just becoming a routine for him. He probably was not aware how it was coming across to others, so I told him, as much for his benefit as for the benefit of Wag and fellow members. I was not being nasty, I was informing him that his treatment of a fellow member seemed nasty.

You are commenting on posts myself and others made, directed at HW in response to his posts going way back aimed at Wag. Posts that you say you don't need to read. Well how the hell are you meant to judge if someone is out of order with their comments if you don't bother to read what those comments are based on (HW's comments)? I would hazard a guess there are at least 20 comments aimed at Wag from HW that I find unsavory. I did not comment right away, as I'm all for a bit of banter, but eventually, it just got a bit much.
Old 17th February 2017
  #2410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
I actually thought you were giving some beneficial input here, even being magnanimous, but then you kind of tell the guy he's hopeless, which is just not helpful, nor is it true.

I think ragging on Wag has just become a part of your ritual, get up, have breakfast, have a coffee, brush teeth, log in to GS to insult Wag, read the paper, head to work. I don't think you are a "professional troll", as I don't see you trolling all over this site and I know you have been a member for quite some time and offered good input etc. It just seems like you have taken a disliking to Wag and like I say, having a dig at him has just become a habit?

Hope you can kick that habit, as you are coming across as a bit of a bully on this thread. I mean, I've heard worse all over the internet, it's not like you are threatening to kill his family, but it's still getting a bit silly and I would expect more from someone of your years and intelligence etc.
First of all the guy wasn't saying anything of the sort. He was saying the song had a flaw and couldn't tell whether the other guy saw it. In a cute passive aggressive way you're attacking him personally. That's what I see with this post. The guy is snarky sure, but he's never attacked anyone personally or said the guy writes bad music.

I'm simply saying I don't like what you and others are doing. You can justify it all you want. I have been reading the thread and started to because I had an interest. Thought the banter was kinda fun and harmless. Now I'm seeing it turn into passive aggressive bs where terms like "troll, bully, and dick", are being politely couched in "kinda, sort of almost", passive aggresive deflection. Saying someone wakes up to troll someone is insulting. Like I said my opinion, and please have fun with your music.....
Old 17th February 2017
  #2411
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First off, you guys have no idea how grateful I am that you've come to my defense. Words cannot express my gratitude. You're all wonderful.

Having said that, let's just get this forum back to listening to each other's songs and leave all this nonsense behind us.

I have put Herr Weiss and Ardis on my ignore list. I'm done with all the drama here. I just want this to be a totally positive experience about the music and nothing BUT the music. Now that I don't have to read their posts anymore, there is nothing to distract me from that goal so there is no reason to keep this going.

Let Ardis and Herr Weiss have their last words (words which thankfully I will never see) and eventually they'll just grow tired of this whole thing if we ignore them and they will either become contributing members of this community or go away.

I think this is the best solution for all involved.

And with that, this is the last I will even discuss this whole issue.

Again, thank you all for your support but it's over and done.
Old 17th February 2017
  #2412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakoda Sada View Post
So Herr Weiss, your back to dredging up old posts and picking on Wagtunes again. Your post was designed to antagonise Wagtunes.
please stop trying to wind-up Wagtunes.
Dakoda Sada.
Enlightenment Short Lived - Brilliant Scathing Title.

FYI, I was his friend until I reproached him for what I thought was over the top 'harsh' criticisms on his part. His answer was, I am paraphrasing, "I am honest to the core and if somebody feels insulted, time to grow some thicker skin." Then, my opinion about his use of 'fake' singers was again not well received.

So, I gave him a taste of his own medicine.

Hey, you too pick and choose previous posts to do your bidding, same as me.
So, for the benefit of all concerned, try to keep your goody two shoes mouth shut,... please. Stay here, patting each other in the back and telling how great you guys are, musically, of course.

_______

Now, why should Ardis be 'ignored' and wished upon to disappear?
You, of all people, should know that ostracizing IS a form of bullying.

Anyways, I hope am enlightened enough to let bygones be bygones and 'take the high road' - outta here.

I apologize for the turmoil I caused to Wag's 'Post your rough demos' thread.


~HW
Old 17th February 2017
  #2413
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
Enlightenment Short Lived - Brilliant Scathing Title.

FYI, I was his friend until I reproached him for what I thought was over the top 'harsh' criticisms on his part. His answer was, I am paraphrasing, "I am honest to the core and if somebody feels insulted, time to grow some thicker skin." Then, my opinion about his use of 'fake' singers was again not well received.

So, I gave him a taste of his own medicine.
~HW
If you're trying to somehow equate Wagtunes one harsh or over the top criticism of someone who can't sing with your constant ragging and attempts to wind him up, then you have a ways to go.

I'm not a Wagtunes apologist , If I was around for the original post and if I had thought there was malice or cruelty involved, I'd be the first to call it out and say what it is.
But some people can't sing , I count myself as one of them , witness any of my tracks, I think you told me to get singing lessons. It didn't scar me , it didn't stop me opening myself up to criticism by coming back here.
(I took lessons and now I can sing! no that was me being facetious..)
If you can't sing , you will get found out eventually , no matter how many friends and family tell you you can, the emperors new clothes prevail. I try to sing because even a very poor voice that's been tuned and processed by a computer is better than writing instrumentals for me. I've also expressed my less than favourable opinion of Wagtunes use of Vocaloid, he took it in the spirit it was intended.

That seems to be the crux of the matter, you two have some history that you refuse to move on from. That's your choice, but my goodytooshoesness forces me to confront antagonism and underhanded snide comments that have only one purpose, whether others can see it or not, not my issue, if I witness it , I call it out, some say the best thing to do is ignore it. That's not for me, I think everyone should confront it , and all the time.

my other issue is , I now find myself starting to dislike Richard Widmark , which does seem a little unfair, <- more facetious humour ...

Dakoda (goodytooshoes, can't sing to save his life) Sada
Old 17th February 2017
  #2414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardis View Post
First of all the guy wasn't saying anything of the sort. He was saying the song had a flaw and couldn't tell whether the other guy saw it. In a cute passive aggressive way you're attacking him personally. That's what I see with this post. The guy is snarky sure, but he's never attacked anyone personally or said the guy writes bad music.

I'm simply saying I don't like what you and others are doing. You can justify it all you want. I have been reading the thread and started to because I had an interest. Thought the banter was kinda fun and harmless. Now I'm seeing it turn into passive aggressive bs where terms like "troll, bully, and dick", are being politely couched in "kinda, sort of almost", passive aggresive deflection. Saying someone wakes up to troll someone is insulting. Like I said my opinion, and please have fun with your music.....
Wrong again. He said something like "if you can't tell it needs a chorus here, then you are lost" or words to that effect. It certainly was not a "in case you missed it" comment. Only in context with his other posts would you realise he was being less than disingenuous. If someone pokes someone in the back once or twice, it's banter, if that person pokes someone in the back 50 times, it's not.

By the way, I also called Wag out too when I thought he was being too uptight and and defensive as well

I am not trying to be aggressive, passively or otherwise, I was only ever trying to be diplomatic and give people advice on how their conduct was appearing and threatening to ruin a good thread. The fact that more than one person has said the same thing about HW's posts, should tell you something. It's not some conspiracy, where we have gotten together to plot. We are strangers to each other. I don't know any of them or hold any of them in any more regard as HW.

HW, you are still welcome here as far as I am concerned and I don't have an issue with you personally and I would not be going on about this at all unless Ardis wasn't trying to paint an inaccurate picture. It was all done and dusted in my eyes, so sorry it's been brought up again. Anyway, if you do feel mistreated my us please say. I won't be arguing with you any more Ardis. You have the wrong end of the stick and have waded into something without having witnessed what lead to the current comments. I'm happy to converse with you about anything other than this.
Old 17th February 2017
  #2415
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Zyzygis's Avatar
 

Let's not allow this thread to get derailed by point scoring and personal insults, let's keep it about the music.
Please?
Old 17th February 2017
  #2416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
You should redo this one and call it The One Tower

...So we go
Even though we know...

...So we go
Even though we know...


I am expecting something bigger after this 'pre-chorus' and what do I get??

NADA!! A flat tire!!!

I am left thinking w t _ is going on here???
If you Wag, can't tell that you need a chorus after that, my hands are tied.


~HW
OK here's the offending post that started all of this. The guy is clearly listening to the song and trying in a snarky way to give advice. Good lord, I'd be delighted is someone takes the time to listen to my music and offer criticism (snarky or no), to it. Especially if I'd been whining that no one was listening to all the music I posted (which pretty much monopolized the thread).

Look I really don't have a problem with you guys enjoying making music and helping each other. I just really feel, one guy got over sensitive, and others jumped on a guy that wasn't being that outta line. I could be wrong, I often am. One man's opinion.

Again, please have fun making music. The whole things been beaten to death at this point....
Old 17th February 2017
  #2417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardis View Post
OK here's the offending post that started all of this. The guy is clearly listening to the song and trying in a snarky way to give advice. Good lord, I'd be delighted is someone takes the time to listen to my music and offer criticism (snarky or no), to it. Especially if I'd been whining that no one was listening to all the music I posted (which pretty much monopolized the thread).

Look I really don't have a problem with you guys enjoying making music and helping each other. I just really feel, one guy got over sensitive, and others jumped on a guy that wasn't being that outta line. I could be wrong, I often am. One man's opinion.

Again, please have fun making music. The whole things been beaten to death at this point....

This is not the first post that started all this. 6 months before this one is probably about where it all started. Anyway, let's move on. I like this place and don't want to be one of the people who dragged it down. Peace.
Old 17th February 2017
  #2418
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wagtunes's Avatar
 

In the meantime, I'm starting my country CD and I'm discovering that this may be my biggest challenge yet as far as authenticity. Country music gets a bad rap but it's more complex than people realize to get that "sound" that actually makes it country. The amount of time that I've already put into what is essentially a very simple song has been astronomical. Not having "real" instruments to play and trying to make virtual instruments such a banjos, harmonicas and peddle steel guitars sound "real" is no easy feat. I think by the time I am done with this CD I am going to be totally fried.
Old 18th February 2017
  #2419
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1st track from my upcoming CD "A Whole Lotta Country"

Track was more difficult to do than all my prog and rock tracks put together. Explaining why would take a book so I'll spare you the details.

One thing of note is that I kept the drum part on this very simple. Just kick and snare and centered. I wanted to highlight the instruments that make country, country. As I get better with messaging the articulations, the sounds will hopefully become more and more convincing over time. This track was really just to get my feet wet.

In short, this CD is going to be a real bitch.

Black Hat Dude

If you see me coming
Down the street
Better get a move on
Before we meet

Cause I'm big bad trouble
With a six gun in each hand
And I'll blow your brains out
Where you stand

I'm a black hat dude
Living black hat days
I'm too old to change
And I'll probably die that way

And I make my living
Robbing banks and cheating at cards
No one's safe from my wrath
No matter who you are

Cause I'm big bad trouble
With a six gun in each hand
And I'll blow your brains out
Where you stand

I'm a black hat dude
Living black hat days
I'm too old to change
And I'll probably die that way

Old 18th February 2017
  #2420
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I was asked to do this by a friend of mine over at KVR. This is why I don't sing anymore. This is my version of Black Hat Dude with me on vocals.

The last refrain my voice is mixed in with the Vocaloid voice.

It's the only part of the singing that sounds decent.

Again, this is why I don't sing anymore.

Old 18th February 2017
  #2421
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Zyzygis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
I was asked to do this by a friend of mine over at KVR. This is why I don't sing anymore. This is my version of Black Hat Dude with me on vocals.

The last refrain my voice is mixed in with the Vocaloid voice.

It's the only part of the singing that sounds decent.

Again, this is why I don't sing anymore.

Much prefer this version, it has character and I think your voice is going to work better for this project.
Just my opinion.
Old 18th February 2017
  #2422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyzygis View Post
Much prefer this version, it has character and I think your voice is going to work better for this project.
Just my opinion.
Well, it's not exactly a ringing endorsement LOL. But I'll take it.

I doubt I'll humanize the whole project. Maybe a couple of tunes here and there. Really don't like singing anymore and obviously don't like my voice.

We'll see.
Old 18th February 2017
  #2423
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Zyzygis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
Well, it's not exactly a ringing endorsement LOL. But I'll take it.

I doubt I'll humanize the whole project. Maybe a couple of tunes here and there. Really don't like singing anymore and obviously don't like my voice.

We'll see.
I can empathise. I don't like my voice either, but I have become aware that others hear it differently and I just try to make it work for the song.
I honestly think in this case you can get away with a lot because of the genre.
Authenticity is more important than having a great singing voice in this type of country music and it will suit the instrumental style.
You might try exploring the lower registers of your voice and eq and compress the low mids to really bring them out. It might be best to think about your voice as a character rather than 'your voice', if you see what I mean?
Old 18th February 2017
  #2424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyzygis View Post
I can empathise. I don't like my voice either, but I have become aware that others hear it differently and I just try to make it work for the song.
I honestly think in this case you can get away with a lot because of the genre.
Authenticity is more important than having a great singing voice in this type of country music and it will suit the instrumental style.
You might try exploring the lower registers of your voice and eq and compress the low mids to really bring them out. It might be best to think about your voice as a character rather than 'your voice', if you see what I mean?
I have no lower registers. I have no voice. I keep trying to tell people I can't sing but nobody wants to listen.

Fortunately, I can put the mic in the case for good and never take it out if I want.

That's the beauty of doing this stuff just to have fun.

Anyway, 11 more of these hee haw gems to go.

Hey, was that some fancy banjo pickin or what? LOL
Old 19th February 2017
  #2425
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Zyzygis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
I have no lower registers. I have no voice. I keep trying to tell people I can't sing but nobody wants to listen.

Fortunately, I can put the mic in the case for good and never take it out if I want.

That's the beauty of doing this stuff just to have fun.

Anyway, 11 more of these hee haw gems to go.

Hey, was that some fancy banjo pickin or what? LOL
I don't know about nobody wants to listen, but what I hear is that your opinion of your voice is not the same as mine. You might not be Dionne Warwick, but you carried that tune well enough, and it sounded a lot better to my ears than the vocaloid stuff, especially in this context, so perhaps it's you that doesn't want to listen?
I get that it's not easy, I can struggle for days to get a decent vocal, but for me it's a matter of taking pride in my work and so I consider the effort worthwhile.
YMMV.
Old 19th February 2017
  #2426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyzygis View Post
I don't know about nobody wants to listen, but what I hear is that your opinion of your voice is not the same as mine. You might not be Dionne Warwick, but you carried that tune well enough, and it sounded a lot better to my ears than the vocaloid stuff, especially in this context, so perhaps it's you that doesn't want to listen?
I get that it's not easy, I can struggle for days to get a decent vocal, but for me it's a matter of taking pride in my work and so I consider the effort worthwhile.
YMMV.
The difference is, I pick my battles. You gave me advice on improving my mixes and I took it. And you have to admit that my mixes are better. I knew that was something I could improve on.

I can't improve on my voice. In fact, as I get older, it's going to get worse. My mother was an opera singer but eventually, with age, she lost her voice. It was sad, but it happens. Julie Andrews lost her voice. Talk about sad.

Trying to deal with voice is not a battle I want to fight because it's just not important to me. It's too much effort for too little gain, if any at all.

In this track, I ran my voice through.

EQ
Munison
Compressor
Limiter
Valhalla Plate

That's the only reason it sounded as good as it did and that's not saying much.

I can improve my mixes. And with time, my mixes will get even better because my skills will get even better.

But I can't improve on a voice that reached its peak back in the early 90s.

So, as I said, I choose to pick my battles and this isn't a battle I want to fight.

It has nothing to do with pride.
Old 19th February 2017
  #2427
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Crazy4Jazz's Avatar
 

Electronic DLMHY

Just so you don't think I have no feel for electronic type, here is one of what they call around here a "jam"...
Attached Files

01 Don't Leave Me Hangin, Yo.mp3 (11.30 MB, 124 views)

Old 19th February 2017
  #2428
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wagtunes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz View Post
Don't Blame Me should be the title of all my recordings. But this is the actual song. This was a very rough track. It was the first time I got together with this singer and we were just going through her tunes for the first time so its a bit rough around the edges. Also, my chops were a bit down on this one. My opinion is that the piano is much too aggressive. Never mind the drums, that's just filler until I finally get a drummer in here. But before I do I want the bass and piano to be functioning on the right wavelength.
Stuff I liked

The singer
The arrangement

Stuff I think needs work

Vocal seems out of place a little. I can't put my finger on it. Maybe too dry? Not enough reverb? Maybe a little too loud? Something just seems a little off with the space here.

Drums, can't hear but like you said, it's just a placeholder for now.

Personally, I'd like a more club sound on this one. I hear it in places but then there are places where it sounds like a studio recording. It's just uneven, if you know what I mean.

I'm no mix expert so I couldn't even begin to tell you how to "fix" this, but I'm sure you probably hear what needs to be done anyway.

She does sing very well. Nice song.
Old 19th February 2017
  #2429
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Crazy4Jazz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
Stuff I liked

The singer
The arrangement

Stuff I think needs work

Vocal seems out of place a little. I can't put my finger on it. Maybe too dry? Not enough reverb? Maybe a little too loud? Something just seems a little off with the space here.

Drums, can't hear but like you said, it's just a placeholder for now.

Personally, I'd like a more club sound on this one. I hear it in places but then there are places where it sounds like a studio recording. It's just uneven, if you know what I mean.

I'm no mix expert so I couldn't even begin to tell you how to "fix" this, but I'm sure you probably hear what needs to be done anyway.

She does sing very well. Nice song.
Funny that you should mention the dry vocal. I'm not a big fan of reverb on vocals. Mostly don't like it. On the other hand, what I think you're reaching for is the concept of having the recording sound like it was made in a particular room. That, of course, is the original use of reverb, to recreate a live experience. I could see giving the whole thing an overall "room" treatment but these are very rough demos, thus the thread title.

There are other tracks where she does a Billie Holiday thing that's kind of cute but yeah, she can sing.
Old 19th February 2017
  #2430
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wagtunes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz View Post
And yes, I've been known to make a rock tune here and there. This one the singer refused to sing so I had to do it myself. The particular singer that was there at the time claimed he was no creep but c'mon, the song was meant as a joke. Anyway, I just left it as is. It's pretty embarrassing but what the hell as they say.
Well, I wish the vocals were turned up a little in the mix (had some trouble hearing them) and the recording itself sounds a little muddy, but I like the tune. I was tapping my foot through the whole thing.
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