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Old 5th September 2016
  #1561
Gear Head
this song i'm working on has the concept of a couple arguing in a car.

i'm trying and struggling to make the kick sound like car tires bumping. any suggestions of achieving that sound would be appreciated.

https://soundcloud.com/beenjiiii/do-...rly-mixdoooown
Old 5th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1562
Lives for gear
 
wagtunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
None of the above, I'm serious.

I'm no expert when it comes to 'Broadway Musicals', but when Wag posted the first song 'Once Upon A Time', I was intrigued.



The nameless 'Princess' has to sing twelve songs all by herself before nameless 'Prince' comes to her aid; the four duets.

Who I ask, who would let a singer go through such a musical gauntlet??
Sing 16 songs without any rest!?!? A musical with just two singers??? Insane!!!

If a person does not know the first thing about 'Musicals', perhaps, they should entirely avoid the genre. One song would have been enough.

A through critique may follow.


~HW
Now I'm flat out offended. I've forgotten more about musicals than you'll ever know. I wrote this the way I did for a reason. Everything was done with a purpose. If I posted the script for this, which I'm not going to bother doing, you would understand.

Now of course you'll come back with more insults.

I'm ready. If you want to turn this into all out war, I'm game. I've got plenty of years left to fight this one out.
Old 5th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1563
Lives for gear
 
wagtunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjit View Post
this song i'm working on has the concept of a couple arguing in a car.

i'm trying and struggling to make the kick sound like car tires bumping. any suggestions of achieving that sound would be appreciated.

https://soundcloud.com/beenjiiii/do-...rly-mixdoooown
Know what? If nothing else, this didn't bore me. Very different. Each second I was waiting to hear what you'd do next. Not your run of the mill stuff.

Only criticism is I think the kick, when it first comes in, needs a little EQ on the low end and some compression. It's really overpowering, at least on my system.

Otherwise, very cool. I enjoyed listening to that and actually wish it was longer.
Old 5th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1564
Lives for gear
 
Herr Weiss's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
Now I'm flat out offended. I've forgotten more about musicals than you'll ever know. I wrote this the way I did for a reason. Everything was done with a purpose. If I posted the script for this, which I'm not going to bother doing, you would understand.

Now of course you'll come back with more insults.

I'm ready. If you want to turn this into all out war, I'm game. I've got plenty of years left to fight this one out.
Wag, your problem is that you are easily offended and you think just like a politician.

What insults??
That you are incapable of writing a B'way Musical??

The role requires the 'princess' to sing 16 songs in a row!! Pray tell,
where are you going to find a 'real' singer to do that, plus have to reach all them 'high notes' you seem to be so found of??

Btw, I live one block away from the Theater District. There is no way you have attended more shows than yours truly.

Sayonara,
~HW

Last edited by Herr Weiss; 5th September 2016 at 08:07 PM..
Old 6th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1565
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
And how exactly am I supposed to get the tracks to these people so that they can be mixed properly? In order to even have a prayer of this sounding decent, they would have to have the ability to download my project and drop their vocals into it. That means having the following:

Same DAW
Same VSTs

The only other option is, again, getting them to fly out to NJ, paying their own way, and recording the vocals here.

And I could go into a dozen more logistical nightmares but I don't want to waste my time doing it.

Again, I am perfectly content using Vocaloid for my vocals.
No, you send them a WAV of your mix (minus vocals) and a mix of vocals only. They then drop these files into their own DAW and add vocals. They then send you a WAV or 2 of the best takes of their vocals and a couple of takes of backing vocals and harmonies etc, you drop them back into your DAW and you mix them.

No need for same DAW and VSTs.

There are people on youtube etc who record covers but who don't have any original material. You can message some you like the sound of and ask them if they would be interested. It's good experience for them. Of course they need a DAW, but Audacity and garageband are free (or a few dollars). They also need an interface and mic (or USB mic), but probably have these if they are recording cover songs etc.
Old 6th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1566
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wagtunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
No, you send them a WAV of your mix (minus vocals) and a mix of vocals only. They then drop these files into their own DAW and add vocals. They then send you a WAV or 2 of the best takes of their vocals and a couple of takes of backing vocals and harmonies etc, you drop them back into your DAW and you mix them.

No need for same DAW and VSTs.

There are people on youtube etc who record covers but who don't have any original material. You can message some you like the sound of and ask them if they would be interested. It's good experience for them. Of course they need a DAW, but Audacity and garageband are free (or a few dollars). They also need an interface and mic (or USB mic), but probably have these if they are recording cover songs etc.
I actually used to do this back when I first started. And it's going to sound like vocals thrown on top of an instrumental track. The mix won't be anywhere near good. Getting the vocals to fit just right is close to impossible.

In mixing, each backing instrument has to be EQ'd at the frequency of the vocals to carve out space for them. Using this cheap, crude method, it can't be done UNLESS I send them a stem of each instrument separately. And then they have to be able to assemble the instruments together in their DAW so that they can sing over the track. The process isn't stupidly hard but unless they have some basic mixing experience, they're not going to be able to do it.

And the end result is going to be sub standard mix wise.

And that doesn't even get into the quality of their mics, noise from the room, and on and on and on and on.

It's a lousy method. I know. I've been there, done that, won't do it again.
Old 6th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1567
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
I actually used to do this back when I first started. And it's going to sound like vocals thrown on top of an instrumental track. The mix won't be anywhere near good. Getting the vocals to fit just right is close to impossible.

In mixing, each backing instrument has to be EQ'd at the frequency of the vocals to carve out space for them. Using this cheap, crude method, it can't be done UNLESS I send them a stem of each instrument separately. And then they have to be able to assemble the instruments together in their DAW so that they can sing over the track. The process isn't stupidly hard but unless they have some basic mixing experience, they're not going to be able to do it.

And the end result is going to be sub standard mix wise.

And that doesn't even get into the quality of their mics, noise from the room, and on and on and on and on.

It's a lousy method. I know. I've been there, done that, won't do it again.
i felt bad before but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about half the time and it's sad : (
Old 6th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1568
Lives for gear
 
wagtunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjit View Post
i felt bad before but you clearly have no idea what you're talking about half the time and it's sad : (
Oh, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Tell you what hot shot. I'll send you an instrumental track, fully mixed, and you get vocals to fit over it seamlessly without it sounding like vocals were just thrown over the wav file.

I think you better watch this video. And this is just the basics of EQing your vocals and what goes into it. Try doing this with a fully mixed instrumental track.

Old 6th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1569
Gear Head
hint: they send you back a wav of their vocal and you mix it yourself like you're supposed to and like how the vast majority of producers these days do. let me know if you have any more questions i'm always happy to help
Old 6th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1570
Gear Addict
 
TheLateNight's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by benjit View Post
this song i'm working on has the concept of a couple arguing in a car.

i'm trying and struggling to make the kick sound like car tires bumping. any suggestions of achieving that sound would be appreciated.

https://soundcloud.com/beenjiiii/do-...rly-mixdoooown


Do some found sound - go to a tire store, or junk yard, or anywhere you go find two tires - and roll them together and record it. Then maybe transpose it down a few steps to get it bassier.

By the way, while I like the conceptual design of your track, it has far too much low end at points, and you might want to un muddy the kick. Just remember, that's my two cents. However, I think it's at the point where most would agree it's far too much.
Old 6th September 2016
  #1571
Gear Addict
 
TheLateNight's Avatar
 

Can we stop the arguing though and get back to reviewing each others music?

I really think this one here is "done". And I honestly think this is the best thing I've written. I used absolutely 0 MIDI in this track, recorded the percussion by dual micing office chairs, a desk, and using some editing skills ... I wanted a really catchy melody and lots of harmony / counterpoint in this one. I think it'll be a great opener for my coastal themed album.

But please, fellow music makers, tell me what can improve
https://soundcloud.com/davidlillymus...to-sea/s-5wdRc
Old 6th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1572
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLateNight View Post
Can we stop the arguing though and get back to reviewing each others music?

I really think this one here is "done". And I honestly think this is the best thing I've written. I used absolutely 0 MIDI in this track, recorded the percussion by dual micing office chairs, a desk, and using some editing skills ... I wanted a really catchy melody and lots of harmony / counterpoint in this one. I think it'll be a great opener for my coastal themed album.

But please, fellow music makers, tell me what can improve
https://soundcloud.com/davidlillymus...to-sea/s-5wdRc
love the mix on this, so crisp. all that subtle percussion really sets the tone for something unimposing yet pleasant - and it's nice to hear that it came from such a DIY place (in fact, one of my favorite sample packs comes from found sound at an office supplies store).

i also appreciate that you always add new elements as the piece progressed, and it was so finely spun that i couldn't even tell a new sound had appeared until it was fully integrated and another element had dropped out or taken it's place.

my only gripe is that it's a bit long for an opener at 3 minutes, but that's a criticism you can totally ignore because it would be a purely stylistic and artistic choice.
Old 6th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1573
Gear Addict
 
TheLateNight's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by benjit View Post
(in fact, one of my favorite sample packs comes from found sound at an office supplies store).

.
Found sound! See! More reason why you need to get a great found sound recording device and find those tires for your track.

Thank you though, for your feedback and listening. I actually thought it was too short! So maybe it's somewhere in between.
Old 6th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1574
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
I actually used to do this back when I first started. And it's going to sound like vocals thrown on top of an instrumental track. The mix won't be anywhere near good. Getting the vocals to fit just right is close to impossible.

It's a lousy method. I know. I've been there, done that, won't do it again.
Sorry, the idea is that they send you their vocals and you remix your tracks, with the new vocal tracks.

It's no different to how you would do it if you had a vocalist their with you. Yes, you have no control over their monitor mix, which will make some difference, but I don't see that you can't get a decent vocal this way. Of course, like I said before, you need to give them advice on recording in a quiet room etc.

I do this all the time. A producer sends me their mix, I add vocals and send them the vocals back and they remix including the vocals and nobody has yet said "I can't get these vocals to sit right".

I understand that some people may not know what they are doing recording wise, but I don;t think you should count it out as an option.

Anyway, I can see you are dead against the idea, so that's the last I'll say on the subject.

Peace.
Old 6th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1575
Lives for gear
 
wagtunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLateNight View Post
Can we stop the arguing though and get back to reviewing each others music?

I really think this one here is "done". And I honestly think this is the best thing I've written. I used absolutely 0 MIDI in this track, recorded the percussion by dual micing office chairs, a desk, and using some editing skills ... I wanted a really catchy melody and lots of harmony / counterpoint in this one. I think it'll be a great opener for my coastal themed album.

But please, fellow music makers, tell me what can improve
https://soundcloud.com/davidlillymus...to-sea/s-5wdRc
Hello Central NJ. How do you like the storm we didn't get yesterday? Totally screwed up our Labor Day plans those stupid weather men.

Anyway, loved the piece. Composition wise it's great. I have only one minor nit pick. The office chairs are slightly out of beat at times. Mostly in the first half. Towards the second half, where the percussion is more prominent, they're fine. It's a little distracting when you're tapping your foot and the beats aren't in sync.

Otherwise, loved it.
Old 6th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1576
Gear Addict
 
TheLateNight's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
Hello Central NJ. How do you like the storm we didn't get yesterday? Totally screwed up our Labor Day plans those stupid weather men.

Anyway, loved the piece. Composition wise it's great. I have only one minor nit pick. The office chairs are slightly out of beat at times. Mostly in the first half. Towards the second half, where the percussion is more prominent, they're fine. It's a little distracting when you're tapping your foot and the beats aren't in sync.

Otherwise, loved it.

Thanks Wag. You're right, I listened a little more closely, and indeed there's a few off beats in the percussion. Not sure how I missed that, now that I hear it, it sticks out like a sore thumb. Time to quantize a few things. ..

I'm glad to hear it is fine composition wise. That was the main focus- a great melody and harmony to support it.
Old 6th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1577
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
And how exactly am I supposed to get the tracks to these people so that they can be mixed properly? In order to even have a prayer of this sounding decent, they would have to have the ability to download my project and drop their vocals into it. That means having the following:

Same DAW
Same VSTs

The only other option is, again, getting them to fly out to NJ, paying their own way, and recording the vocals here.

And I could go into a dozen more logistical nightmares but I don't want to waste my time doing it.

Again, I am perfectly content using Vocaloid for my vocals.
They don't need the same DAW or VSTs if you print an instrumental mix for them to sing over. Then they send you the acapella stems which you can drop into your DAW..

Wagtunes just say you don't WANT a human voice in your tracks and be done with it.

Last edited by JohnFulford; 6th September 2016 at 11:30 PM.. Reason: mis spelling!
Old 6th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1578
Lives for gear
 
wagtunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFulford View Post
They don't need the same DAW or VSTs if you print an instrumental mix for them to sing over. Then they send you the acapella stems which you can drop into your DAW..

Wagtunes just say you don't WANT a human voice in your tracks and be done with it.
Actually, what I'd like to be done with is this whole conversation.

Look, I have tried working with other artists before. In fact, I have over 35 years of blood and guts history of trying to work with other artists, from writers to singers to instrumentalists to you name it. The only person I ever had any positive experience with was one of my best friends from when I was like 5 years old. He was my co-lyricist. We wrote a good hundred songs together. But he's moved on. He's now a published author on video games and has zero interest in music these days. Every other working relationship was a total disaster. And it was always the same thing. Either it didn't get done or, if it did, it was horrible.

In short, I am DONE working with others. I tried it for over 35 years and I won't get burned anymore. It's that simple.
Old 7th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1579
Lives for gear
 
wagtunes's Avatar
Well, the robots are taking over. 4th track of my upcoming CD "M"

Lyrics in description

Old 7th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1580
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
I actually used to do this back when I first started. And it's going to sound like vocals thrown on top of an instrumental track. The mix won't be anywhere near good. Getting the vocals to fit just right is close to impossible.

In mixing, each backing instrument has to be EQ'd at the frequency of the vocals to carve out space for them. Using this cheap, crude method, it can't be done UNLESS I send them a stem of each instrument separately. And then they have to be able to assemble the instruments together in their DAW so that they can sing over the track. The process isn't stupidly hard but unless they have some basic mixing experience, they're not going to be able to do it.

And the end result is going to be sub standard mix wise.

And that doesn't even get into the quality of their mics, noise from the room, and on and on and on and on.

It's a lousy method. I know. I've been there, done that, won't do it again.
Maybe you can take the singers acapellas and mix them back in to the DAW session. Like we did in this track when the singer was in Beijing for a month..

To tell you the truth i really don't like your implications that female singers don't know how to deliver audio assets.

https://soundcloud.com/john-fulford-...lford-sad-rain
Old 7th September 2016 | Show parent
  #1581
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
Actually, what I'd like to be done with is this whole conversation.
Me too. Jeezomightypeople. He doesn't want to work with other singers. Period. The end. Get over it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
None of the above, I'm serious.

I'm no expert when it comes to 'Broadway Musicals',
Too bad you don't keep that in mind for the rest of your reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
Btw, I live one block away from the Theater District.
I live one block away from a hospital. That doesn't make me a doctor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benjit View Post
this song i'm working on has the concept of a couple arguing in a car.

i'm trying and struggling to make the kick sound like car tires bumping. any suggestions of achieving that sound would be appreciated.

https://soundcloud.com/beenjiiii/do-...rly-mixdoooown
I'm not sure what you mean by "car tires bumping." But it doesn't matter, there is nothing in the song to indicate two people arguing anyway, unless there was something in all that sound effect stuff in the beginning which I skipped because it wasn't music and was just plain annoying. The rest was just an erratic THUMP and some spacey sound effects. I don't get the impression you know what you're talking about.
Old 7th September 2016
  #1582
Lives for gear
 
cjogo's Avatar
Dark Chocolate Jam

https://soundcloud.com/cjogo/dark-chocolate-jam


Roland VS 2480 ... Behringer stuff / Masterlink
Old 7th September 2016
  #1584
Lives for gear
 
cjogo's Avatar
https://soundcloud.com/cjogo/boom-box-baby
4 Track AKAI DAW -- E drums > early 1990's
Old 7th September 2016
  #1585
Lives for gear
 
cjogo's Avatar
https://soundcloud.com/cjogo/im-too-...r-a-smartphone

When you have about 2 hours in the studio free .. Fingers on the keys for the drums
Old 7th September 2016
  #1586
Old 7th September 2016
  #1587
Old 7th September 2016
  #1588
Old 7th September 2016
  #1589
Lives for gear
 
cjogo's Avatar
https://soundcloud.com/cjogo2/one-good-eye-new

2003 >> VS 2480 >> Always written/ recorded in one sitting
Old 7th September 2016
  #1590
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