The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Post your rough demos
Old 13th June 2020
  #9781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolavine View Post
It works, Van Morrison type of song I think, with a glorious mess of disjointed good ideas.
Ahh yes, Van the man! I am a fan.
I hadn’t made the connection till you mentioned it. I was looking more in the direction of the original soul singers that he would have been paying homage to.
Glad you liked it and yes a “glorious mess” is a nice way to describe it.

Thanks for listening Rocky.
Old 13th June 2020
  #9782
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_r View Post
Another listen- I am pretty sure you are not using Waves' MV2- an upward and downward compressor. Does miracles to tracks. And then can be applied to mix buss as well. But... there's a newish Waves/Abbey Road mastering plugin (Abbey Road TG Mastering Chain) which I cannot hear here and I think would work so well on your track!

I’m so honored that you guys are listening multiple times to give me such considered feedback. I promise to spend some time next week listening and commenting on others tracks.

The vocal has not had a lot of treatment yet as it’s just a scratch with a mic and preamp I will not be using for the real vocal. I do use MV2 though (not applies yet).
Old 13th June 2020
  #9783
Lives for gear
Just posted the very latest version. Not much has changed. I pulled the pad back a pinch and hopefully has helped with the tightness. Added the correct swing to the guitar loop and I altered one clap that was bothering someone, but left the others alone. Added a bit of MV2 to the temp vocal, gave more velocity to the snare hits in the chorus and I think that's about it.

Not messed with arrangement in terms of thining it out a little here and there, but will maybe do this when I have proper vocal recorded and possible replaced the guitar.

I keep swinging from liking the single chord (with slight change on 4th bar) to thinking the riff played to follow the chord progression would work much better and make the "vertical stack" a little less cumbersome. Opinions on that one point would be appreciated. Think I'll get someone of Fivver to play it for me, as there are some very good musicians on there at costs hobbyists like me can afford now and again.

https://soundcloud.com/kanewilliams-.../s-7BxkIgbcdQ5
Old 13th June 2020
  #9784
Lives for gear
 
dc_r's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolavine View Post
Holy Cow, are you some slumming super pro? I can't even imagine the state of mind that could predict what compressor would work best on a piece just by thinking! How many thousand hours of mixing does it take to be able to do such a thing?

I love my old HD580's they agree with my monitors, both pretty clinical.
Not thinking but listening. I could definitely hear it wasn’t used as it has this particular sound- upward and downward compression. I started using it after seeing one Waves promotional video where Jack Joseph Puig said he wouldn’t even want to mix without it. So to answer your question- many thousands of hours.

Not sure if I recommend this, but listening at your tracks I think your next purchase should be a metronome!
Old 13th June 2020
  #9785
Lives for gear
 
Herr Weiss's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolavine View Post
I was there in 1970, ]...]
Lucky you!

I went there twice, when Thatcher was in power.
Custom agents treated me like trash.

I will never go back, even if they pay me.
WARM BEER!!! WTF????

I am an Arsenal fan, though


~HW
Old 13th June 2020
  #9786
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
Lucky you!

I went there twice, when Thatcher was in power.
Custom agents treated me like trash.

I will never go back, even if they pay me.
WARM BEER!!! WTF????

I am an Arsenal fan, though




~HW
I’ve never thought our beer was warm but have heard this said a lot. I’ve had beer in many countries and never thought it was much colder than British beer! Lol
Old 13th June 2020
  #9787
Lives for gear
 
Herr Weiss's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
I’ve never thought our beer was warm but have heard this said a lot. I’ve had beer in many countries and never thought it was much colder than British beer! Lol
Well, that was way back in the 80s; things change.

I do remember visiting a Beer-Only establishment in the fine city of Brussels.The shelved mirrored walls were filled with glasses of all shapes and sizes, reason being that every type of beer had their own unique container; the waiter explained.

I made the mistake to request for the strongest beer in the house. Disappointed to see a tiny 'vial' arrive at my table. It was truly awful, more like a shot of whiskey; no thirst cruncher!

Many more anectodes from places like Paris and Munich; for another time, perhaps.


Good day,
~HW
Old 13th June 2020
  #9788
Gear Nut
 
The Noodlist's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolavine View Post
It works, Van Morrison type of song I think, with a glorious mess of disjointed good ideas.
I got a Simply Red vibe, I like it. A tad too busy in areas IMO.
Old 13th June 2020
  #9789
Gear Nut
 
The Noodlist's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyzygis View Post


Talking of retro and cheesy...
I wrote this song many years ago but never got around to recording it.
It’s a bit different from my usual stuff but I think it’s a direction that I might enjoy exploring.
It’s rough, lots of bum notes and pretty awful mix but I am interested in wether you think it works as a song and is worth perusing.
I like it, I got a Simply Red vibe. I found it rather busy in the odd place, definitely worth pursuing.
Old 13th June 2020
  #9790
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Noodlist View Post
I like it, I got a Simply Red vibe. I found it rather busy in the odd place, definitely worth pursuing.
Thanks.
I agree it will need thinning out and tightening up and I think it’s a tad slow. I will re-record all the non midi parts a bpm or two faster.
Glad you liked it!
Old 13th June 2020
  #9791
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyzygis View Post


Talking of retro and cheesy...
I wrote this song many years ago but never got around to recording it.
It’s a bit different from my usual stuff but I think it’s a direction that I might enjoy exploring.
It’s rough, lots of bum notes and pretty awful mix but I am interested in wether you think it works as a song and is worth perusing.
Definite Simply Red vibe, I could just hear Mick singing it. Will be good. Not sure I liked the chorus though. Maybe rethink that a bit.
Old 14th June 2020
  #9792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyzygis View Post
Thanks.
I agree it will need thinning out and tightening up and I think it’s a tad slow. I will re-record all the non midi parts a bpm or two faster.
Glad you liked it!
Don’t do all of that hard work. Just raise the pitch two semitones. That will make it sound better. It is proven.
Old 14th June 2020
  #9793
Deleted f7717eb
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyzygis View Post


Talking of retro and cheesy...
I wrote this song many years ago but never got around to recording it.
It’s a bit different from my usual stuff but I think it’s a direction that I might enjoy exploring.
It’s rough, lots of bum notes and pretty awful mix but I am interested in wether you think it works as a song and is worth perusing.
Hi Z, hope all is well:
I think I get where you are going with this one. I have a question and a related thought about this.
You mentioned the music was cheesy at the top of your text. (I like it - I like cheese!)

Question: are you keeping the music?
If so, this type of tune almost mandates a harmony change. I hear this as the tune is playing. Do you hear that as well?

Oh well, guess I'm old fashioned!
Thanks for posting.
Old 14th June 2020
  #9794
Quote:
Originally Posted by drcmusic View Post
Hi Z, hope all is well:
I think I get where you are going with this one. I have a question and a related thought about this.
You mentioned the music was cheesy at the top of your text. (I like it - I like cheese!)

Question: are you keeping the music?
If so, this type of tune almost mandates a harmony change. I hear this as the tune is playing. Do you hear that as well?

Oh well, guess I'm old fashioned!
Thanks for posting.
Thanks, I like the arrangement too, though it’s rough ATM and needs some refining.
I think I know what you mean by the harmony change, I would call it a key change and it was often used to add a lift to a repeating chorus in the latter part of a song and is the definition of cheesy.
I think it’s a cheese too far for me, but, I think it might work for raising the chorus by a whole tone, as per Desire Inspire’s suggestion, though not for the whole song.
I am going to do a new version and see how it sounds.
Old 14th June 2020
  #9795
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_r View Post
Not thinking but listening. I could definitely hear it wasn’t used as it has this particular sound- upward and downward compression. I started using it after seeing one Waves promotional video where Jack Joseph Puig said he wouldn’t even want to mix without it. So to answer your question- many thousands of hours.

Not sure if I recommend this, but listening at your tracks I think your next purchase should be a metronome!
I should get a portable one to use while working out the tune. By the time I get to recording it (and I have very little experience at that as I'm a newbie) I have a time in mind from playing it a hundred times working out the music-lyric-change-repeat cycle that passes for my creativity, that is often in opposition to any fixed BPM I can set in the daw's click. If I didn't go through this manual playing cycle my tunes wouldn't be very good from my standpoint, but adding a metronome wouldn't upset that cycle much and then my time in mind would better match the recording BPM if I didn't let them get so deviant in the process. Hummm.....

Thanks
Old 14th June 2020
  #9796
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
Lucky you!

I went there twice, when Thatcher was in power.
Custom agents treated me like trash.

I will never go back, even if they pay me.
WARM BEER!!! WTF????

I am an Arsenal fan, though


~HW
Heck they let me pass right through in 70 with an ounce of hash in my undies, the market for that in my cow town nearly paid for the trip, with the added bonus of, if I was caught at least they wouldn't be able to send me to Nam!
Old 14th June 2020
  #9797
Lives for gear
 
dc_r's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolavine View Post
I should get a portable one to use while working out the tune. By the time I get to recording it (and I have very little experience at that as I'm a newbie) I have a time in mind from playing it a hundred times working out the music-lyric-change-repeat cycle that passes for my creativity, that is often in opposition to any fixed BPM I can set in the daw's click. If I didn't go through this manual playing cycle my tunes wouldn't be very good from my standpoint, but adding a metronome wouldn't upset that cycle much and then my time in mind would better match the recording BPM if I didn't let them get so deviant in the process. Hummm.....

Thanks
I was a bit harsh and joking there but practicing with a metronome is very important. I understand that in your style of music you want to have a fluid tempo but doing it smoothly is the tricky part. Although it doesn't seem to be a major problem with your recordings, I think I heard it in places. Maybe sometimes deliberately practice with, and then record without...

Some years ago I started playing drums on an electronic drum kit. Even though I think I can keep time very well on guitar (I've been playing for 30+ years), keeping time on drums was and still is, very difficult.

I've been recording at home for about 14 years. Playing to click tracks (or drum machines, sometimes with some swing applied) made me a better musician. I found this so obvious when playing with friends who do not record- their time-keeping would sometimes be really bad. Another thing I found with recording is putting your playing under the microscope really makes you improve over time.
Old 14th June 2020
  #9798
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Noodlist View Post
I got a Simply Red vibe, I like it. A tad too busy in areas IMO.
I'm an old guy, I never heard of Red Vibe, so I listened to two of their tunes, 'Holding back the years' and fairground, and found little in common with Z's song. Holding back.. was so boring I stopped it at 1:34 for fear of going comatose, Fairgound, was equally boring, though their singer has great pipes, I did wait until 2:30 from them to break into a meh tribute to Lionel Richie's 'all night long', and then I gave up. So I don't know what tune you mean but it can't be either of them as I Liked Z's mess a thousand times better.

I'm very ignorant of groups and what's popular, after all nothing is better than Wayne Shorter's JuJu album from 1964, lol. I dream of being a tenth as good a musician as Shorter in my next life.
Old 14th June 2020
  #9799
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_r View Post
I was a bit harsh and joking there but practicing with a metronome is very important. I understand that in your style of music you want to have a fluid tempo but doing it smoothly is the tricky part. Although it doesn't seem to be a major problem with your recordings, I think I heard it in places. Maybe sometimes deliberately practice with, and then record without...

Some years ago I started playing drums on an electronic drum kit. Even though I think I can keep time very well on guitar (I've been playing for 30+ years), keeping time on drums was and still is, very difficult.

I've been recording at home for about 14 years. Playing to click tracks (or drum machines, sometimes with some swing applied) made me a better musician. I found this so obvious when playing with friends who do not record- their time-keeping would sometimes be really bad. Another thing I found with recording is putting your playing under the microscope really makes you improve over time.
I'm a retired hobby music person, I do it cause I love writing songs, I don't know what I'm doing with arranging, I'm barley proficient in pro tools and have to learn new techniques for each piece and I've only been doing this for 8 months, and even then only when I've worked up a new song. But I love music and I'm proud of my songs, they are original, non derivative, and they tell stories in clear fashion. I'm honestly doing the best I can with the lack of talent and experience I have. I realize there are a lot of people in here who make better stuff, but you know if we all compare ourselves to Beethoven we might as well get out the razors and start going at our wrists. And if you don't think that is true where is your 9th Symphony I'd like to hear it?
Old 14th June 2020
  #9800
Lives for gear
 
clump's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolavine View Post
Heck they let me pass right through in 70 with an ounce of hash in my undies, the market for that in my cow town nearly paid for the trip, with the added bonus of, if I was caught at least they wouldn't be able to send me to Nam!
Well they could send you to 'Nham'...Cheltenham
Old 14th June 2020
  #9801
Lives for gear
 
dc_r's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolavine View Post
I'm a retired hobby music person, I do it cause I love writing songs, I don't know what I'm doing with arranging, I'm barley proficient in pro tools and have to learn new techniques for each piece and I've only been doing this for 8 months, and even then only when I've worked up a new song. But I love music and I'm proud of my songs, they are original, non derivative, and they tell stories in clear fashion. I'm honestly doing the best I can with the lack of talent and experience I have. I realize there are a lot of people in here who make better stuff, but you know if we all compare ourselves to Beethoven we might as well get out the razors and start going at our wrists. And if you don't think that is true where is your 9th Symphony I'd like to hear it?
Haha... I agree. If you've been recording for only eight months then you are excellent. I think your songs are really good (I also like Dylan, Chet Atkins etc.)

If you want to learn a bit more on Pro Tools maybe you should check out lynda.com. They have loads of courses, some on audio engineering too, which I think are very good, especially for someone just starting out. You probably need about 25% of what Pro Tools can do anyway...
Old 14th June 2020
  #9802
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
Just posted the very latest version. Not much has changed. I pulled the pad back a pinch and hopefully has helped with the tightness. Added the correct swing to the guitar loop and I altered one clap that was bothering someone, but left the others alone. Added a bit of MV2 to the temp vocal, gave more velocity to the snare hits in the chorus and I think that's about it.

Not messed with arrangement in terms of thining it out a little here and there, but will maybe do this when I have proper vocal recorded and possible replaced the guitar.

I keep swinging from liking the single chord (with slight change on 4th bar) to thinking the riff played to follow the chord progression would work much better and make the "vertical stack" a little less cumbersome. Opinions on that one point would be appreciated. Think I'll get someone of Fivver to play it for me, as there are some very good musicians on there at costs hobbyists like me can afford now and again.

https://soundcloud.com/kanewilliams-.../s-7BxkIgbcdQ5
I don't have the older versions to compare, so this is all subjective and from memory. You've added a lot of great details to the song, the strings at 1:20 and all the subtle strings through the piece. The guitar is now more fluid and the bass is a bit softer and fuzzier but I can't see any dancing feet anymore. At the beginning the Stevie Wonder vibe is back again but not what it was. Now taken bit by bit everything you have done is tasteful and amazing.

But IMHO, a tune I really loved has become one I no longer like. it is now too busy, and It makes me uncomfortable when I listen to it, tightness in the shoulders and an inability to just flow with it, it's lost the few resting spots it had and seems over the top and under the flow. I had no such problems with the version you had before you put the horns in. Is that older version still up? I'd to to hear it to see if I've just gone bonkers and am yapping nonsense, come on I need a control group? Am I the only one that senses this? If I am the only one than disregard this, please. I can't account for my mood changes over weeks, I'd like to think my appreciation and taste was more constant, but......

Standard disclaimer, I know nothing and my dog is my only fan!
Old 14th June 2020
  #9803
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolavine View Post
I'm an old guy, I never heard of Red Vibe, so I listened to two of their tunes, 'Holding back the years' and fairground, and found little in common with Z's song. Holding back.. was so boring I stopped it at 1:34 for fear of going comatose, Fairgound, was equally boring, though their singer has great pipes, I did wait until 2:30 from them to break into a meh tribute to Lionel Richie's 'all night long', and then I gave up. So I don't know what tune you mean but it can't be either of them as I Liked Z's mess a thousand times better.

I'm very ignorant of groups and what's popular, after all nothing is better than Wayne Shorter's JuJu album from 1964, lol. I dream of being a tenth as good a musician as Shorter in my next life.
I always really liked Holding Back The Years. I get why you would find it boring, but I just think it's a good sad, emotional ballad.
Old 14th June 2020
  #9804
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_r View Post
Haha... I agree. If you've been recording for only eight months then you are excellent. I think your songs are really good (I also like Dylan, Chet Atkins etc.)

If you want to learn a bit more on Pro Tools maybe you should check out lynda.com. They have loads of courses, some on audio engineering too, which I think are very good, especially for someone just starting out. You probably need about 25% of what Pro Tools can do anyway...
The 25% is a good comfort thanks. I'll check out the link. I'm old school and do best with books verses screen videos that are too unclear for me to follow.

Your profile is void, there must be a reason for staying anonymous, but if not, who are you, what have you done to get all this experience?
Old 14th June 2020
  #9805
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolavine View Post
I don't have the older versions to compare, so this is all subjective and from memory. You've added a lot of great details to the song, the strings at 1:20 and all the subtle strings through the piece. The guitar is now more fluid and the bass is a bit softer and fuzzier but I can't see any dancing feet anymore. At the beginning the Stevie Wonder vibe is back again but not what it was. Now taken bit by bit everything you have done is tasteful and amazing.

But IMHO, a tune I really loved has become one I no longer like. it is now too busy, and It makes me uncomfortable when I listen to it, tightness in the shoulders and an inability to just flow with it, it's lost the few resting spots it had and seems over the top and under the flow. I had no such problems with the version you had before you put the horns in. Is that older version still up? I'd to to hear it to see if I've just gone bonkers and am yapping nonsense, come on I need a control group? Am I the only one that senses this? If I am the only one than disregard this, please. I can't account for my mood changes over weeks, I'd like to think my appreciation and taste was more constant, but......

Standard disclaimer, I know nothing and my dog is my only fan!
The older versions are no longer up but I can probably take a stab at finding one that was at least close to what was up before the horns as I called that version "with horns" so the one before would be a good guess.

I find it quite interesting that a song you loved can go to one you don't even like with a few additions. I'm not sure that could happen to me. Think it could go from a song I loved to a song and now thing is ok. haha
Old 14th June 2020
  #9806
Lives for gear
OK, here is the older version, the one prior to the horn experiment (V7). https://soundcloud.com/kanewilliams-.../s-eWGw0AXMZ3D

Here is the current version, with strings etc. https://soundcloud.com/kanewilliams-.../s-7BxkIgbcdQ5
Old 14th June 2020
  #9807
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
OK, here is the older version, the one prior to the horn experiment (V7). https://soundcloud.com/kanewilliams-.../s-eWGw0AXMZ3D

Here is the current version, with strings etc. https://soundcloud.com/kanewilliams-.../s-7BxkIgbcdQ5
I remember I changed the intro because someone said it needed to build more, that the intro had too much in it and that when the verse came in it was just more of the same with no journey.

However, I'm now thinking that maybe the old beginning was better but not sure. I'll decide just before I class it as finished!
Old 14th June 2020
  #9808
Lives for gear
 
dc_r's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolavine View Post
The 25% is a good comfort thanks. I'll check out the link. I'm old school and do best with books verses screen videos that are too unclear for me to follow.

Your profile is void, there must be a reason for staying anonymous, but if not, who are you, what have you done to get all this experience?
You should definitely check out the videos- I think you can get one month free trial to see if you like them.

I am also a hobbyist- I am a photographer but I like making and recording music and sound. My aim at the start was to try to record one album and I gave myself ten years to do it. Now I have scraped the time limit. I think I got much better at recording but I no longer like my writing so I need to work on this... but it is the journey that counts not simply getting there.
Old 14th June 2020
  #9809
Lives for gear
 
clump's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolavine View Post
The 25% is a good comfort thanks. I'll check out the link. I'm old school and do best with books verses screen videos that are too unclear for me to follow.
I'm with you Rocky...I don't use any kind of DAW, I'm still using an 8 track digital recorder (Tascam DP-03SD) it's pretty much an antique now.

I'd like to say it's because I like the limitations it imposes upon me, and that I have to work within that simple framework...but it is actually because I'm a thick, technophobic luddite.

My wife uses Magix 'Samplitude' and keeps telling me how much I would benefit if I did too...but I'm suspicious of anything that isn't difficult to carry from one room to the other.
Old 14th June 2020
  #9810
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
I'm suspicious of anything that isn't difficult to carry from one room to the other.
Haha.

If you can sync your Tascam with a DAW, then you could work mainly on the hardware but just dabble a bit on the DAW. Not sure how easy that would be though.
📝 Reply
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
🖨️ Show Printable Version
✉️ Email this Page
🔍 Search thread
🎙️ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump