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Post your rough demos Virtual Instrument Plugins
Old 1 week ago
  #6901
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Ron Vogel's Avatar
 

Been awhile since I last posted...

Anywho, have been contemplating entering some songwriting contests for ****s and giggles. My daughters like this song, would be cool to get some feedback first.

It's the closest to a "love" song I've done. I mostly do songs about reincarnation, narcolepsy, priest sex scandals...etc.

Anthem by Ron Vogel | Free Listening on SoundCloud
Old 1 week ago
  #6902
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Zyzygis's Avatar
 



I took the reverb on the vocal right down and addressed the problem with the de-esser.
I also changed the eq on the drums and bass as per Donkey Tugger's advise.
What do you guys think? Am I getting closer?

Last edited by Zyzygis; 1 week ago at 04:34 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #6903
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Zyzygis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Vogel View Post
Been awhile since I last posted...

Anywho, have been contemplating entering some songwriting contests for ****s and giggles. My daughters like this song, would be cool to get some feedback first.

It's the closest to a "love" song I've done. I mostly do songs about reincarnation, narcolepsy, priest sex scandals...etc.

Anthem by Ron Vogel | Free Listening on SoundCloud
Really like this. It’s beautifully melodic and structurally quirky but it works for me.
Mix wise it sounds a bit thin. I would bring the vocal up and get those drums hitting much harder to emphasise the emotional dynamics and compress the vocals, drums and bass to make them sound more solid.
Old 1 week ago
  #6904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Vogel View Post
Been awhile since I last posted...

Anywho, have been contemplating entering some songwriting contests for ****s and giggles. My daughters like this song, would be cool to get some feedback first.

It's the closest to a "love" song I've done. I mostly do songs about reincarnation, narcolepsy, priest sex scandals...etc.

Anthem by Ron Vogel | Free Listening on SoundCloud
I like this a lot. Great singing and interesting harmonies.

If I were producing it, I’d change the arrangement personally, because the parts where there’s no singing don’t strike me as strong (the chord changes, instrumentation and occasional soloing, like the piano solo at the end, seem quite conventional), and the alternation between them gives me a stop-and-go feeling. I feel like with more interest in those sections (and cutting them back/trimming them), the song would hold together more strongly for me and could be even better. Just my opinion of course!
Old 1 week ago
  #6905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyzygis View Post


I took the reverb on the vocal right down and addressed the problem with the de-esser.
I also changed the eq on the drums and bass as per Donkey Tugger's advise.
What do you guys think? Am I getting closer?
Beautiful song—really like the vocal line over the chord changes and it has a great feel.

Maybe you’re only looking for feedback on the mix, but the main thing that stands out to me is the arrangement. 5 mins strikes me as a long time to stay with the same instrumentation and rhythm. Have you considered changing things up a bit, like for the bridge/B section in the middle and maybe the final verse? If you can change the drums, rather than have them go straight through, that would help. I’m not suggesting huge changes because I dig the hypnotic quality created by the steady feel, but I don’t think a typical drummer or bass player would be content to just sit on the same thing for 5 mins straight, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, really nice work!
Old 1 week ago
  #6906
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyzygis View Post


I took the reverb on the vocal right down and addressed the problem with the de-esser.
I also changed the eq on the drums and bass as per Donkey Tugger's advise.
What do you guys think? Am I getting closer?
All sounds good, "esses" are spot on now. The vocal is too low though and getting buried by the strings. This was listening on M-Audio BX-5 monitors in an untreated decent size room.
Old 6 days ago
  #6907
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Zyzygis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snail View Post
Beautiful song—really like the vocal line over the chord changes and it has a great feel.

Maybe you’re only looking for feedback on the mix, but the main thing that stands out to me is the arrangement. 5 mins strikes me as a long time to stay with the same instrumentation and rhythm. Have you considered changing things up a bit, like for the bridge/B section in the middle and maybe the final verse? If you can change the drums, rather than have them go straight through, that would help. I’m not suggesting huge changes because I dig the hypnotic quality created by the steady feel, but I don’t think a typical drummer or bass player would be content to just sit on the same thing for 5 mins straight, if you know what I mean.

Anyway, really nice work!
Thanks for the feedback.
When you say the drum needs change I assume that you mean rhythmic variation?
I am not sure if I can do that without losing the feel of the track.
I was tempted to add a shaker, but then I always am, so I resisted for once. Perhaps it just needs a dynamic shift?
Glad you like the song.
Old 6 days ago
  #6908
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Zyzygis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
All sounds good, "esses" are spot on now. The vocal is too low though and getting buried by the strings. This was listening on M-Audio BX-5 monitors in an untreated decent size room.
Thanks Kane.
I will work on the automation of the vocal and bring it up in the busy parts. That should do it.
Old 6 days ago
  #6909
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyzygis View Post
Thanks for the feedback.
When you say the drum needs change I assume that you mean rhythmic variation?
I am not sure if I can do that without losing the feel of the track.
I was tempted to add a shaker, but then I always am, so I resisted for once. Perhaps it just needs a dynamic shift?
Glad you like the song.
Yes, some variation, even if it's just a break here or there.

If I'm doing an arrangement, I try to think of each part as if I were the musician playing that instrument. If I was playing drums for a song, I'd never just play a steady beat through the entire song, without ever varying it. Same for the bass line, etc.

There are examples of great songs that just have the same drum beat all throughout -- Billie Jean is an example -- but there you have variation coming from the other instruments.

Again, it depends on what you want -- if you like the steady hypnotic feel then there's no need to change this, but to me personally it makes it hard to listen to for 5 straight minutes without variation. And I want to be able to listen that long, because I think there are great elements to the song -- like the vocal line and general feel, as I mentioned.
Old 6 days ago
  #6910
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OK, for anyone who can stomach listening to my track "Light" again, can you let me know what you think of the new drum pattern? Kept it the same in chorus and changed in verses, which helps differentiate the parts. I will live with it for a bit and see if I want to alter the pattern slightly in the chorus too as I'm not sure if the rhythm jars a little when it changes? I much prefer the groove of the drums in the verses now though. What do you think?

Light - Demo by KaneWilliams | Kane Williams | Free Listening on SoundCloud
Old 5 days ago
  #6911
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wagtunes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
OK, for anyone who can stomach listening to my track "Light" again, can you let me know what you think of the new drum pattern? Kept it the same in chorus and changed in verses, which helps differentiate the parts. I will live with it for a bit and see if I want to alter the pattern slightly in the chorus too as I'm not sure if the rhythm jars a little when it changes? I much prefer the groove of the drums in the verses now though. What do you think?

Light - Demo by KaneWilliams | Kane Williams | Free Listening on SoundCloud
Kane, I can listen to your stuff all day.

I have a bad memory so I don't remember the original drum pattern. All I can say is I like what you have now, not that I didn't like what you had before.

Everything sounds fine to me. If I heard this on the radio, I would believe this was a radio ready mix. But don't go by me because I'm not terribly picky unless something is really not right. Nothing in this mix sticks out as being "not right."
Old 5 days ago
  #6912
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Zyzygis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
OK, for anyone who can stomach listening to my track "Light" again, can you let me know what you think of the new drum pattern? Kept it the same in chorus and changed in verses, which helps differentiate the parts. I will live with it for a bit and see if I want to alter the pattern slightly in the chorus too as I'm not sure if the rhythm jars a little when it changes? I much prefer the groove of the drums in the verses now though. What do you think?

Light - Demo by KaneWilliams | Kane Williams | Free Listening on SoundCloud
I am not sure about what has changed but I don’t think I enjoyed this version as much a the one you posted earlier after you had lifted the main vocal and before you changed the solo. It seems a bit less unified and a bit “fussy” for want of a better term, than the previous one, which I think flowed more.
I think there is a danger of overthinking and overworking when we focus in on the details too much, especially this late in the process.

Last edited by Zyzygis; 5 days ago at 02:39 PM.. Reason: Added a comma
Old 5 days ago
  #6913
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wagtunes's Avatar
 

Kane, take this for what it's worth and with a very small grain of salt.

Sometimes overthinking things comes from a listener's perspective as well from a need to dissect things down to absolute minutia. To this day, it drives me crazy when I hear things like "You EQ at 150 hz should be one quarter db lower and with a slightly more narrow Q." If a song has gotten to that point where we're nit picking to that degree, we need to sit back, listen to what we have and honestly say to ourselves, "Do I like this? Do I think it is solid? Do I think if the average person will listen to this, they will like it?"

If you can answer yes to those questions, IMO, I think it's time to leave it alone.

This is just my totally meaningless opinion as an insignificant spec on this forum.

Take it for what it's worth to you.

Bottom Line: Go with your gut and don't listen to anybody here, including me.
Old 5 days ago
  #6914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyzygis View Post
I am not sure about what has changed but I don’t think I enjoyed this version as much a the one you posted earlier after you had lifted the main vocal and before you changed the solo. It seems a bit less unified and a bit “fussy” for want of a better term than the previous one, which I think flowed more.
I think there is a danger of overthinking and overworking when we focus in on the details too much, especially this late in the process.
Thanks Z.

I think you are right, I do like the new rhythm but I'm going to simplify the beat a bit more and see if I can get the transitions to work better as it's lost some of the flow it had before. It's a bit busy and disjointed now.

When I'm ready, I'll post both old and new versions to see which people the most.

The synth sound I think I will address later. I'll may be turn the old OSC up and the new one down, but I'm happy to have both paying.
Old 5 days ago
  #6915
Here for the gear
 

This is a track I just finished a few days ago, a couple things I need to revisit mix wise but i'm pretty happy with it so far
Attached Files

Stray (Mix3).wav.m4a (2.89 MB, 201 views)

Old 5 days ago
  #6916
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s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Shoop View Post
This is a track I just finished a few days ago, a couple things I need to revisit mix wise but i'm pretty happy with it so far
Go NYC I like the production... less is more... well done... do you do any other genres?
Old 5 days ago
  #6917
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wagtunes's Avatar
 

1st track from my upcoming CD "Still Out Of Sync"

A little background on the song, the CD and why I'm doing it.

In 1985, I did an album as a tribute to one of my favorite bands of the 80s. Unfortunately, back then I was just dreadful as a musician, producer, everything and the album wasn't very good.

Well, it's going to be 35 years in 2020 so I thought I would give this another shot. The album was called "Out Of Sync" so the sequel is called "Still Out Of Sync" and will be in the same style. You may or may not be able to guess the group. I don't know. I think it's obvious but you can never tell.

Anyway, it's going to be a 16 song CD.

On this particular song, production wise, I went back to heavily processed vocals and was a little heavy handed with the reverb. Just felt like going in that direction.

For the drum kit I had to think a bit outside the box. I normally use EZ Drummer for rock tunes because it has built in overheads. But I really wanted to use my Tama kit (especially the snare) and the only way to do that was to import some samples that I got. Unfortunately, there are no overheads and I don't have any sample playback for drums that has overheads. So I had to do some hocus pocus to simulate overheads for this track. I think they came out decent considering. There are a total of 38 tracks on this tune including tons of vocals, both real and synthesized.

All in all, it took me 9 days to finish this. For me, that's a hell of a long time. I like the way it sounds but I've long learned that my taste is vastly different from most people's here so I'm not expecting any rave reviews. But this is a CD I've wanted to do for almost 35 years so let the chips fall where they may.

The title track from "Still Out Of Sync"

Still Out Of Sync

I'm not right in the head
Some would say I'm better off dead
Teachers try to explain
What is wrong with my brain

Round and round it goes
Where it stops nobody knows
Please try not to blink
I'm still out of sync

I've been this way for years
Helps to ease the pain of my tears
Head shrinks claim I'm okay
But I'm here again today

Repeat Chorus

Instrumental Break

Maybe I can get well
Either that or end up in hell
Choices that we all make
Time to give and time to take

Repeat Chorus

Out of sync
Out of sync
Out of sync
Out of sync

To Fade

Old 5 days ago
  #6918
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
Kane, take this for what it's worth and with a very small grain of salt.

Sometimes overthinking things comes from a listener's perspective as well from a need to dissect things down to absolute minutia. To this day, it drives me crazy when I hear things like "You EQ at 150 hz should be one quarter db lower and with a slightly more narrow Q." If a song has gotten to that point where we're nit picking to that degree, we need to sit back, listen to what we have and honestly say to ourselves, "Do I like this? Do I think it is solid? Do I think if the average person will listen to this, they will like it?"

If you can answer yes to those questions, IMO, I think it's time to leave it alone.

This is just my totally meaningless opinion as an insignificant spec on this forum.

Take it for what it's worth to you.

Bottom Line: Go with your gut and don't listen to anybody here, including me.
Oh, I agree with you Wag. However, the rhythm of the beat is not a minor thing, it's changed the groove quite a bit. I do think that it's made it clunky in a few places but overall, I like the new rhythm, so I just need to iron out the kinks, then compare the two versions. The mix is done I think.
Old 5 days ago
  #6919
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wagtunes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
Oh, I agree with you Wag. However, the rhythm of the beat is not a minor thing, it's changed the groove quite a bit. I do think that it's made it clunky in a few places but overall, I like the new rhythm, so I just need to iron out the kinks, then compare the two versions. The mix is done I think.
I guess you're more sensitive to rhythm than I am, which was never my strong point. So like I said, go with your gut. If you think something needs to be changed, by all means change it. Just don't do it ONLY because somebody says it needs changing.

FWIW, I think the song sounds cool as hell. I can imagine it on the radio some 40 years ago.
Old 5 days ago
  #6920
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
1st track from my upcoming CD "Still Out Of Sync"

A little background on the song, the CD and why I'm doing it.

In 1985, I did an album as a tribute to one of my favorite bands of the 80s. Unfortunately, back then I was just dreadful as a musician, producer, everything and the album wasn't very good.

Well, it's going to be 35 years in 2020 so I thought I would give this another shot. The album was called "Out Of Sync" so the sequel is called "Still Out Of Sync" and will be in the same style. You may or may not be able to guess the group. I don't know. I think it's obvious but you can never tell.

Anyway, it's going to be a 16 song CD.

On this particular song, production wise, I went back to heavily processed vocals and was a little heavy handed with the reverb. Just felt like going in that direction.

For the drum kit I had to think a bit outside the box. I normally use EZ Drummer for rock tunes because it has built in overheads. But I really wanted to use my Tama kit (especially the snare) and the only way to do that was to import some samples that I got. Unfortunately, there are no overheads and I don't have any sample playback for drums that has overheads. So I had to do some hocus pocus to simulate overheads for this track. I think they came out decent considering. There are a total of 38 tracks on this tune including tons of vocals, both real and synthesized.

All in all, it took me 9 days to finish this. For me, that's a hell of a long time. I like the way it sounds but I've long learned that my taste is vastly different from most people's here so I'm not expecting any rave reviews. But this is a CD I've wanted to do for almost 35 years so let the chips fall where they may.

The title track from "Still Out Of Sync"

Still Out Of Sync

I'm not right in the head
Some would say I'm better off dead
Teachers try to explain
What is wrong with my brain

Round and round it goes
Where it stops nobody knows
Please try not to blink
I'm still out of sync

I've been this way for years
Helps to ease the pain of my tears
Head shrinks claim I'm okay
But I'm here again today

Repeat Chorus

Instrumental Break

Maybe I can get well
Either that or end up in hell
Choices that we all make
Time to give and time to take

Repeat Chorus

Out of sync
Out of sync
Out of sync
Out of sync

To Fade


Nice job! reminded me of prog rock stuff which I know is one of your loves. Sort of Vangelis or Forever Autumn from War of The Worlds.

I really liked the unexpected marimba (or other mallet instrument), however I found it a little distracting only being on the L channel due to it being a transient heavy sound. I wonder if having it ping pong between channels may work? It may make it even more distracting?
Old 5 days ago
  #6921
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wagtunes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
Nice job! reminded me of prog rock stuff which I know is one of your loves. Sort of Vangelis or Forever Autumn from War of The Worlds.

I really liked the unexpected marimba (or other mallet instrument), however I found it a little distracting only being on the L channel due to it being a transient heavy sound. I wonder if having it ping pong between channels may work? It may make it even more distracting?
I think bouncing it between channels would make it nerve wracking as it is, as you say, transient heavy. I didn't want to center it because there's just too much going on in the center and I didn't want to leave it out. So I went with having it on the one channel.

Conversely, I am quite sure that there will be some who won't like the lead guitar being centered and would have preferred that being on one channel.

There were enough production choices to criticize in this piece, not the least of which was my use of reverb.

Ultimately, I sat down and said to myself "What do I want this to sound like? What mood, feeling, whatever, am I trying to convey?" And that's what I went with. That's why I said, change something if YOU feel it's wrong. In this case, I can live with the choices I've made.

Could the song be better? Sure. Could my singing be better? Absolutely? Could the production possibly be improved through different ideas? I have no doubt that a professional mixer and arranger could probably make this sound 100 times better. But I'm finally at peace with who I am and what I'm capable of doing. I didn't slap this together in a day. Every choices was painstakingly gone over in minute detail, right down to how much volume to turn the overheads up to.

Could I imagine that the marimba could be distracting? Sure. Anything that's prominent can be distracting. The violin could be distracting by being on the right channel.

100 people will mix this song 100 different ways.

That's what makes it art.
Old 5 days ago
  #6922
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
Go NYC I like the production... less is more... well done... do you do any other genres?
Thank you man!! And yeah I mostly mix more straight up Pop records, but this is my own artist stuff I'm producing/mixing (I'm the singer on the record)
Old 5 days ago
  #6923
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s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Shoop View Post
Thank you man!! And yeah I mostly mix more straight up Pop records, but this is my own artist stuff I'm producing/mixing (I'm the singer on the record)
I am am doing same as you... (miss NYC) You know I have been testing uploads to YT etc. figuring out what codecs and formats sound best... I am getting much of it dialed in... but is far reaching and different. One mix will sound 5x better than another on certain media platforms. I am customizing say one mix just for youtube and etc. Eat a slice for me... o jus fogit boutit.
Old 5 days ago
  #6924
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foxwaves's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
1st track from my upcoming CD "Still Out Of Sync"

A little background on the song, the CD and why I'm doing it.

In 1985, I did an album as a tribute to one of my favorite bands of the 80s. Unfortunately, back then I was just dreadful as a musician, producer, everything and the album wasn't very good.

Well, it's going to be 35 years in 2020 so I thought I would give this another shot. The album was called "Out Of Sync" so the sequel is called "Still Out Of Sync" and will be in the same style. You may or may not be able to guess the group. I don't know. I think it's obvious but you can never tell.

Anyway, it's going to be a 16 song CD.

On this particular song, production wise, I went back to heavily processed vocals and was a little heavy handed with the reverb. Just felt like going in that direction.

For the drum kit I had to think a bit outside the box. I normally use EZ Drummer for rock tunes because it has built in overheads. But I really wanted to use my Tama kit (especially the snare) and the only way to do that was to import some samples that I got. Unfortunately, there are no overheads and I don't have any sample playback for drums that has overheads. So I had to do some hocus pocus to simulate overheads for this track. I think they came out decent considering. There are a total of 38 tracks on this tune including tons of vocals, both real and synthesized.

All in all, it took me 9 days to finish this. For me, that's a hell of a long time. I like the way it sounds but I've long learned that my taste is vastly different from most people's here so I'm not expecting any rave reviews. But this is a CD I've wanted to do for almost 35 years so let the chips fall where they may.



Hey Wags, I like this better than any yet! My favorite, no doubt . Well done!
Old 5 days ago
  #6925
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wagtunes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxwaves View Post
Hey Wags, I like this better than any yet! My favorite, no doubt . Well done!
Thanks Fox. I guess the work I put into it shows. But 9 days, sheesh. I used to almost finish a whole CD in 9 days.
Old 5 days ago
  #6926
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foxwaves's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
Thanks Fox. I guess the work I put into it shows. But 9 days, sheesh. I used to almost finish a whole CD in 9 days.

Well worth it, Wags. You've outdone yourself .
Old 5 days ago
  #6927
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Shoop View Post
This is a track I just finished a few days ago, a couple things I need to revisit mix wise but i'm pretty happy with it so far
Very nice track and great production! Thanks for sharing!
Old 5 days ago
  #6928
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by wagtunes View Post
Out of sync

From a songwriting perspective, this is a really good song, maybe the best I’ve heard from the ones I’ve listened to from you.

As I was listening I could imagine a few bands I like performing it.

If this is the result of spending more time on a song than usual, I’d encourage you to keep doing that. 9 days to write, arrange, perform, produce and mix a song seems incredibly short to me. I have songs I’ve been working on for 10 years. If I wrote, recorded and finished a song inside 2 weeks that would be blazingly fast. It has happened on occasion, but rarely.

If you’d like me to record a guitar track for it, instead of the programmed one you have currently, let me know. I’d be happy to. Since the guitar features prominently, it would help to have a real performance.
Old 5 days ago
  #6929
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wagtunes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snail View Post
From a songwriting perspective, this is a really good song, maybe the best I’ve heard from the ones I’ve listened to from you.

As I was listening I could imagine a few bands I like performing it.

If this is the result of spending more time on a song than usual, I’d encourage you to keep doing that. 9 days to write, arrange, perform, produce and mix a song seems incredibly short to me. I have songs I’ve been working on for 10 years. If I wrote, recorded and finished a song inside 2 weeks that would be blazingly fast. It has happened on occasion, but rarely.

If you’d like me to record a guitar track for it, instead of the programmed one you have currently, let me know. I’d be happy to. Since the guitar features prominently, it would help to have a real performance.
Thanks for the offer but I make it a rule to work alone. It just makes my life a lot easier.

As for working on a song for 10 years, at 61 years of age, no, that's not gonna happen.
Old 4 days ago
  #6930
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snail View Post
Very nice track and great production! Thanks for sharing!

Thanks man! I appreciate the feedback!
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