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Post your rough demos
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #31
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davido View Post
I guess the fact the OP agreed with me proves that there was room for constructive criticism. If people were more honest, rather than just patting each other on the back, we'd all become better at what we do.

Please stop being so sensitive, and patronising, and lets all just get along and allow for criticism.
Maybe he is just being a nice guy. And patronising? Please.

The point is, and it was made very clear at the start of the thread. This is a songwriting forum and this is a thread to showcase and discuss songs. We need to keep that top of mind when critiquing.

I am all for honestly, that is exactly what we want. But keep it about the songs and the art of songwriting. Not about the performance.

This is exactly why so many songwriters are afraid to post on the other forums and threads, because they are all concerned with the performance and the mixing. There are plenty of songwriters out there who are not great performers, engineers or musicians - but who can write bloody nice songs. This is a place for them to get feedback on the songs.

Getting more talented people to record demos is easy when the time is right.

Cheers.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphster View Post
Maybe he is just being a nice guy. And patronising? Please.

The point is, and it was made very clear at the start of the thread. This is a songwriting forum and this is a thread to showcase and discuss songs. We need to keep that top of mind when critiquing.

I am all for honestly, that is exactly what we want. But keep it about the songs and the art of songwriting. Not about the performance.

This is exactly why so many songwriters are afraid to post on the other forums and threads, because they are all concerned with the performance and the mixing. There are plenty of songwriters out there who are not great performers, engineers or musicians - but who can write bloody nice songs. This is a place for them to get feedback on the songs.

Getting more talented people to record demos is easy when the time is right.

Cheers.
I mentioned the performance in relation to the song. I mentioned that the performance in this instance spoiled the song, and made it hard to tell.

Amazing the response you get for knocking a few people's ego's.

I completely get your point about people being afraid to post songs due to worrying about performances etc. BUt the TRUTH about how to become successful at writing songs, submitting them to publishers nowadays is the performance and recording HAS to be spot on, the finished article. So you can hear the song that is underneath the performance. If someone puts a song up and asks for criticism for that song, it is perfectly acceptable to everyone that doesnt live in a sensitive little bubble world, to be decent enough to take the time to suggest to that person that they may want to re-address the vocals, as they detract from the song in question, and make the thing hard to listen to.
Old 6th January 2012
  #33
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Obviously this is gonna get slated now due to me denting a few ego's, of people that just expect everyone to like their stuff. I do not have to prove anything to anyone. People dont have to justify criticism.

This is a single I wrote, and produced, released on Polydor/Universal. It was a hit, was used by Sky Sports as their main theme tune for last years Soccer season, amongst other great synch's.

Detroit Social Club - Northern Man - YouTube
Old 6th January 2012
  #34
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Another one...

Detroit Social Club - Chemistry. - YouTube

By the way, mixed by the mixing legend Cenzo Townshend. Any criticism on sounds or mix can be sent to him. But by your logic, you wont be allowed to do that, seen as neither as as good or successful as him
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #35
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davido View Post
I mentioned the performance in relation to the song. I mentioned that the performance in this instance spoiled the song, and made it hard to tell.

Amazing the response you get for knocking a few people's ego's.
I don't think you have knocked anyones ego, don't worry about that.

But I would like people to feel comfortable enough here to post their songs without fear of embarrassment over their performance skill. Surely you can understand that?

Not all songwriters are performers. Many of us are usually the keyboard player or second guitar player who don't get given the microphone that often.

The song needs to to be the important thing here, otherwise what is the point of having a songwriting forum?

Let's talk about melody, harmony, rhythm, structure etc.. If the vocals are not too great then just get over it and try and focus on the song.

Otherwise I am not going to be comfortable posting anything here.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphster View Post
I don't think you have knocked anyones ego, don't worry about that.

But I would like people to feel comfortable enough here to post their songs without fear of embarrassment over their performance skill. Surely you can understand that?

Not all songwriters are performers. Many of us are usually the keyboard player or second guitar player who don't get given the microphone that often.

The song needs to to be the important thing here, otherwise what is the point of having a songwriting forum?

Let's talk about melody, harmony, rhythm, structure etc.. If the vocals are not too great then just get over it and try and focus on the song.

Otherwise I am not going to be comfortable posting anything here.
Read my previous reply to you mate. Were on the same page here. Not all songwriters are performers, but to be a successful singwriter, you need to get good performances of your song down (called session musicians) before demonstrating them in public. The reason good performances are important is they show the song better, they present it in a way that is listenable.

You cant HEAR a melody if the vocals are out of tune. Melodies are a sequence of notes. If those notes arent hit, then how do we know what the melody is?

People need to take the cotton wool off, and realise this is a big bad industry. Re-read my original comment, and I think you will realise your making a mountain from a mole hill, and castrating me for nothing. I merely offered advice about the presentation of THE SONG. I thought the production was great, for the record. I just felt that I couldnt hear THE SONG well enough to judge it, due to the vocals.

And the OP agreed, and has done them again, so now he is in a much better place with this song because of my constructive and friendly criticism, and his ability to be humble and gracious, and obviously motivated.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #37
Gear Maniac
 

Mate, that is all well and good. But remember, songs posted on this forum are not always going to be demos ready to send out to a publisher.

Some people are going to be looking for feedback on the song before they find a singer to record it. This thread is as much about the evolution of a song, and getting feedback while the song is still being tweaked.

You cannot expect people to hire a studio and get some session musicians in just so they can post a song on here to find out the chorus is crap.

Think about it.

And yes, I have heard your stuff before, I actually like a couple of your songs.


** when this thread is cleaned up - and I am sure it will be. Why don't we have two threads? One for finished demos and one for "rough demos/songs in progress"?
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphster View Post
Mate, that is all well and good. But remember, songs posted on this forum are not always going to be demos ready to send out to a publisher.

Some people are going to be looking for feedback on the song before they find a singer to record it. This thread is as much about the evolution of a song, and getting feedback while the song is still being tweaked.

You cannot expect people to hire a studio and get some session musicians in just so they can post a song on here to find out the chorus is crap.

Think about it.

And yes, I have heard your stuff before, I actually like a couple of your songs.
Good point. But I see no harm in giving friendly advice on how they can be improved up to a standard where they could be. Especially when they have potential like this. Asking people to effectively "dumb down" their standards to suit the poster of said material just isnt realistic.

I do get your point. I think we're both decent people, trying to help. I will take your point and remember it for the future, you do the same, and its happy days.

I genuinely meant no harm, and this is the first time I've used this forum.

I'm writing tunes for other people now, so thought id drop by and see what people are doing.

Again, I completely take your point. Absolutely.

What I dont like is people who have turned round and basically said "prove you are entitled to your opinion that my material isnt very good" which is ridiculous, because a) I am. b) Everyone is, and c) I was right, and so is everyone else who has an opinion about music. Its subjectiveness is its beauty. He's just made himself silly though really, as he's started some daft contest now, which there was no need for. But I realise this was nothing to do with you!

Good luck with everything mate.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


** when this thread is cleaned up - and I am sure it will be. Why don't we have two threads? One for finished demos and one for "rough demos/songs in progress"?
It shouldn't be though. There is no maliciousness. People will learn something from our discussion. We've both been mature enough to behave like adults about the opinions we have/had.

But good idea on the threads.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #40
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davido View Post
I'm writing tunes for other people now, so thought id drop by and see what people are doing.
Good, I look forward to hearing some on here! I will be interested in hearing what you come up with. I did have a look at wikipedia and see you guys have broken up - **** happens I guess.

Maybe one day you can volunteer to add a decent voice to some of my songs so they are suitable for sending out - I mean that too! lol.

Cheers.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #41
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pinkheadedbug's Avatar
 

Hey, it's the OP here. I wasn't insulted by having the vocals called out -- it's strangers on the internets, who cares -- and they were indeed out of tune because they were a total scratch track.

Davido said that made it hard for him to hear the melody so I redid them. No harm no foul.

HOWEVER I totally agree that there should be a distinction between 'rough demos' and 'publisher-ready demos' and that we should be clear that performance-oriented criticism is only welcomed in the second.

My intention was that *this* thread would be for people to post demos, no matter how rough, for comments on composition, arrangement and lyrics.

It's unreasonable to expect someone to have a commercial-quality demo of a song they are still working on.

On the other hand, in a commercial-quality demo, the standard of performance is obviously important if it obscures the song.

So yeah, two threads, and no offence taken whatsoever. Maybe someone should start the other thread off?
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davido View Post
I have been constructive though. I am not a mean person, but I am honest. What is the point in us having a thread asking for critique, if we don't give, erm, critique?
I didn't say you were mean I said "That's a bit mean" in reference to this comment: "I feel that's probably why you've tried to exclude out of tune vocals from the critique."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davido View Post
I've written many songs, released on Universal. In my band. Fortunately they did very well...
So what. What's that got to do with it? I read many posts from people with extensive CV's yet they manage to offer critiques without talking down to people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davido View Post
...However, by your logic, no-one would ever be able to criticise anyone unless they were doing it themselves?...
You've lost me now...please explain? What is the point of 'logic' you refer to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davido View Post
...So no-one can criticise Radiohead? The Beatles? Flaming Lips? Just because they're better than us?...
Again you've lost me here...please explain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davido View Post
...Get a grip man and stop being so sensitive.
Not being sensitive...the OP asked for criticism of composition and you think that's because he doesn't want to be criticised for being out-of-tune - in my opinion your comments were 'out-of-tune'.

This isn't the X-factor and TBH I wish I could sing as well (and as tunefully) as the OP. Honestly.

Please read through the forum and note the style of critiques and advice offered by many of the industry's leading lights; with a bit more sensitivity your opinions could be a positive force.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davido View Post
Obviously this is gonna get slated now due to me denting a few ego's, of people that just expect everyone to like their stuff. I do not have to prove anything to anyone. People dont have to justify criticism.

This is a single I wrote, and produced, released on Polydor/Universal. It was a hit, was used by Sky Sports as their main theme tune for last years Soccer season, amongst other great synch's.

Detroit Social Club - Northern Man - YouTube
So, if I 'slate' this track's arrangement it's due to my 'dented ego' - not beacause it is IMO bland and boring. If you'd have posted that in this thread I would have suggested that the arrangement was a little generic and lacked character - call that sensitivity if you will. TBH I preferred the OP's demo song.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #44
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkheadedbug View Post
Hey, it's the OP here. I wasn't insulted by having the vocals called out -- it's strangers on the internets, who cares -- and they were indeed out of tune because they were a total scratch track.

Davido said that made it hard for him to hear the melody so I redid them. No harm no foul.

HOWEVER I totally agree that there should be a distinction between 'rough demos' and 'publisher-ready demos' and that we should be clear that performance-oriented criticism is only welcomed in the second.

My intention was that *this* thread would be for people to post demos, no matter how rough, for comments on composition, arrangement and lyrics.

It's unreasonable to expect someone to have a commercial-quality demo of a song they are still working on.

On the other hand, in a commercial-quality demo, the standard of performance is obviously important if it obscures the song.

So yeah, two threads, and no offence taken whatsoever. Maybe someone should start the other thread off?
If the vocal performance was just bad, then I wouldnt have said anything. However, it was out of tune, and therefore the melodic contour was completely lost. Therefore the song wasnt actually the song. Thats the only reason I mentioned it, not because it wasnt perfect etc. Its important we dont confuse the two. I wasnt expecting releasable quality, just to be able to listen to the tune.

Good on you for being open to criticism, and I hope you got the distinction between me just having a go at a bad performance, and having a go at a bad performance that made the song unlistenable.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Stone View Post
I didn't say you were mean I said "That's a bit mean" in reference to this comment: "I feel that's probably why you've tried to exclude out of tune vocals from the critique."

So what. What's that got to do with it? I read many posts from people with extensive CV's yet they manage to offer critiques without talking down to people.

You've lost me now...please explain? What is the point of 'logic' you refer to?

Again you've lost me here...please explain?

Not being sensitive...the OP asked for criticism of composition and you think that's because he doesn't want to be criticised for being out-of-tune - in my opinion your comments were 'out-of-tune'.

This isn't the X-factor and TBH I wish I could sing as well (and as tunefully) as the OP. Honestly.

Please read through the forum and note the style of critiques and advice offered by many of the industry's leading lights; with a bit more sensitivity your opinions could be a positive force.
My CV was only brought up because, after criticising Chris'n song, you challenged me to upload songs. You basically asked me to prove I was worthy to criticise. Guess what? Everyone is worthy to criticise. It's what music is about. Opinions. Take them or leave them. Listen to them or don't. Filter out the bull**** and keep the pertanant stuff. Simples. You asked me to upload some songs, so I did. I explained what I have done in the past, but also that IT DOESNT MATTER.

And how you have taken my comments says more about you than it does me. That comment was aimed at trying to make him rethink about the importance of performances. AS IVE SAID ALREADY, if it were just a bad take, or performance, but you could still hear the song, the melodic contour etc, then I wouldn't have said anything. However, as many of the notes weren't hit, I felt that I had no impression of what the melody was supposed to be. Now, the melody, and it's contour, is probably the most important aspect of a song. As I felt this was unrecognisable due to the out of tune vocals, I mentioned it.

Tuck your skirt in, powder your nose and just calm down. This is like two bald men fighting over a comb. Completely pointless.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #46
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Stone View Post
So, if I 'slate' this track's arrangement it's due to my 'dented ego' - not beacause it is IMO bland and boring. If you'd have posted that in this thread I would have suggested that the arrangement was a little generic and lacked character - call that sensitivity if you will. TBH I preferred the OP's demo song.
Now I could reply..WHERE ARE YOUR SONGS, SHOW ME YOURS and all that nonsense, but because a) everyone is entitled to criticise, b) I'm an adult, and c) I have half a functioning brain, I will take on your criticism with some humility. I myself feel this track is a bit bland and boring, too as it happens. It served a purpose though. It allowed me to get that string riff into a song and make a lot of money on commercials and television synch's, which was my main goal. To that end, I suppose the song arrangement wasn't that important.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #47
Gear Head
 

This thread went a bit wayward....well, to bring it back to it's original intentions, here are 2 tracks which will sit right in the middle of our first EP, which we hope to have ready by the end of the month. They haven't been mastered or anything yet. Critique away all you like! (but being constructive would be nice! thanks :P)

Sister:


First Snow:
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #48
@ Ramshackles
RE: Sister...IMO the intro needs a little something (a bit hooky) to give it juice...also the intro vocal section would benefit from a lush but short (almost invisible) reverb. I like the way the guitar enters underneath the vocal. It builds nicely to a good pace.

Re: First Snow - I'm liking that guitar intro...it's quite engaging...but the track slows and loses interest in the mid-section. The track reminds me of Winter but also mid-Summer too.

One general criticism of both tracks is that the vocal doesn't stand out enough in the arrangement. Maybe a little Haas delay would fix this (but only very subtly, i.e. so it's not evident). What I think would benefit both tracks is finding the unique elements and making them integral to the arrangement...sorry to be so cryptic.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #49
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Stone View Post
@ Ramshackles
RE: Sister...IMO the intro needs a little something (a bit hooky) to give it juice...also the intro vocal section would benefit from a lush but short (almost invisible) reverb. I like the way the guitar enters underneath the vocal. It builds nicely to a good pace.

Re: First Snow - I'm liking that guitar intro...it's quite engaging...but the track slows and loses interest in the mid-section. The track reminds me of Winter but also mid-Summer too.

One general criticism of both tracks is that the vocal doesn't stand out enough in the arrangement. Maybe a little Haas delay would fix this (but only very subtly, i.e. so it's not evident). What I think would benefit both tracks is finding the unique elements and making them integral to the arrangement...sorry to be so cryptic.
Cheers. The intro to sister troubled me too, problem is, I didnt want it too hooky as it's supposed to be building to the middle section (bit with lyrics after the drums come in). Making it tooo poppy at the start kind of ruined the build up so I'm a bit stumped with it.

Can you expand on the haas delay a bit? How would you implement it, bear in mind its a mono track - would you double the track and pan them and delay (but by doing this it would totally lose the vocals in the center...)

Funny that you said first snow lost steam with the middle section. So far everyone has said that the entry of the organ, piano and percussion saves it from being boring :P
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #50
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramshackles View Post
Funny that you said first snow lost steam with the middle section. So far everyone has said that the entry of the organ, piano and percussion saves it from being boring :P
You know I am going to have to agree with Arthur. During that middle section it was almost as though I was being promised something, as though the tune was building up to something and it just felt it never quite got there. When the final section kicked in it felt like more of the same, as though you had missed an opportunity.

Don't get me wrong, it was a great tune and I loved the when the other instruments joined at 40secs, very nicely done, it sounded great actually.

i have listened to it a couple of times, the "third act" at around 1:40 sounds better with more listens actually, but I still wonder if it needs something very different. Maybe something big sounding playing the bass line, a cello? a tuba? Or maybe a nice heavy pad.

Dunno, just some thoughts.

I do like your piano sound btw, it sits nice here.

Overall a nice tune.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramshackles View Post
Cheers. The intro to sister troubled me too, problem is, I didnt want it too hooky as it's supposed to be building to the middle section (bit with lyrics after the drums come in). Making it tooo poppy at the start kind of ruined the build up so I'm a bit stumped with it...
I guess 'hooky' was the wrong word for me to use - maybe some kind of low-volume percussion underneath to give it some traction? It's not bad but IMO it needs some momentum and this doesn't need to be prominent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramshackles View Post
...Can you expand on the haas delay a bit? How would you implement it, bear in mind its a mono track - would you double the track and pan them and delay (but by doing this it would totally lose the vocals in the center...)
GS thread here ('search' is your best friend on GS): https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-...dimension.html

My take on Haas (from the Bob Katz book) is to add a 29-38 millisecond delay and pan it to one side...but you shouldn't hear it...it's just there to help the vocal stand out, not as an effect. If your vocal track is in mono then just put the delay on a send and pan it into the stereo field of your main mix bus...not all the way to one side...say 1/2 or 3/4 pan. It doesn't work on every track and if your room acoustics aren't great then it's hard to judge the amount of dellay...I'd be cautious with it - better less than more.
I did this collab with One Werd and he's used just a tad too much on vocal:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramshackles View Post
...Funny that you said first snow lost steam with the middle section. So far everyone has said that the entry of the organ, piano and percussion saves it from being boring :P
I think James Taylor's music uses quite simple elements but manages to engage the listener on an emotional level...in some ways First Snow reminded me of his work. I think the key to you nailing this is to not use the organ/piano/percussion to rescue the mid-section but to compliment it. Bear in mind I'm just an amatuer and it's only one opinion.
Good luck though - I genuinely like the direction you're heading in and thanks for posting your tracks as it helps me reflect on my own songwriting and arrangement.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #52
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pinkheadedbug's Avatar
 

I agree the vocal on Sister sounds a bit dry. The Haas is worth trying. I would just double the vocal track, pan hard left/right, delay one side by 20ms or so and then fiddle with the balance until the vocal sounds centered.

Edit -- but a lush, shortish stereo reverb on the vocal could also work well.

There's a nice clean guitar part about 2/3 of the way through Sister that could come up a bit to add interest to that section. I like the way you keep building, from the entry of the bass and drums, to the chordal change and chorus-y section, but then there's a danger it all drops off a bit. I was thinking 'a solo would be good here' but then I listened carefully and I could hear the guitar so I figured you already knew that but had not pulled it up in the mix quite enough.

On a minor performance note there is one high note in the vocal around there which the singer doesn't quite make. Maybe worth dropping in.

On Snow: yes, that's a nice intro, especially when it goes into a B section that you don't expect. However I'm expecting something at 1'10 after 8 bars of the main section, and it doesn't happen. That makes the whole thing feel like a backing track until about 1'51.

I think you need another instrument in here, probably a vocal, to come in at 1'10 and then back off a little into a harmony at 1'51 or so.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davido View Post
...Tuck your skirt in, powder your nose and just calm down. This is like two bald men fighting over a comb. Completely pointless.
I love this comment Davido - I was in the hippie market in Ibiza and saw two old guys fighting over a tatty old beach mat that a tourist had left - they were snarling at each other and tugging on either end until it just ripped and fell apart...each had a small corner. Priceless to see. That's us isn't it?
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #54
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pinkheadedbug's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davido View Post
This is a single I wrote, and produced, released on Polydor/Universal. It was a hit, was used by Sky Sports as their main theme tune for last years Soccer season, amongst other great synch's.

Detroit Social Club - Northern Man - YouTube
Thoroughly enjoyed that, lots of echoes in there of Verve, Oasis, Thrills, but had its own thing going too. Love the hook line (I'm also a northern man, even though I now live in Canada). Bet it was fun to play live.

Here's a version for people who have that version blocked in their country:

Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #55
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MoBeach's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphster View Post
Don't be negative!

I actually liked the voice, it has a certain "un-manufactured" style which I think can sound excellent matched with the right songs - though it does need to be the right songs with a more gritty down to earth arrangement.

Have you never heard of Badly Drawn Boy? There is a songwriter who has done pretty well for himself despite having a voice that is very unremarkable. As I said earlier, this track does remind me in some ways of Badly Drawn Boy.

I can't listen to stuff like this personally, what's the sense in having good musicianship and a decent melody if you're going to put off key or flat vocals on top of it? To me it would be like the guitar solo going in and out of key. Vocals are just another instrument in the whole scheme of things, and should be as high quality as everything else on the track.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #56
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pinkheadedbug's Avatar
 

For some reason I'd never listened to BDB until now -- the name always put me off and I assumed it was some fey indie nonsense, but that's a great track and definitely in the groove of what I'm going for.

I've always like vocals where it sounds like the singer is going for something and almost but not quite getting there -- same thing with solos. I always want it to sound like it's on the edge of the envelope for the musician. There's nothing as dull as a perfectly (technically) executed vocal or solo. It becomes elevator music.

That's why the current plague of Autotune is such a curse - not that it doesn't have plenty of uses, but you end up with a ton of passionless dreck.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #57
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Stone View Post
I love this comment Davido - I was in the hippie market in Ibiza and saw two old guys fighting over a tatty old beach mat that a tourist had left - they were snarling at each other and tugging on either end until it just ripped and fell apart...each had a small corner. Priceless to see. That's us isn't it?
haha! Yes it seems so! Let's shake hands, and start again, and please accept my apology for any offence caused.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #58
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoBeach View Post
I can't listen to stuff like this personally, what's the sense in having good musicianship and a decent melody if you're going to put off key or flat vocals on top of it? To me it would be like the guitar solo going in and out of key. Vocals are just another instrument in the whole scheme of things, and should be as high quality as everything else on the track.
One word; character.

As important as tuning.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #59
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pinkheadedbug's Avatar
 

Yeah. Character. It's amazing how far character can take someone who really in a technical sense has no voice at all. Dylan is the obvious example but there are tons of others. Mark Knopfler, for example, can barely croak from note to note. He basically talks his way through Romeo and Juliet. Chris de Burgh. Mark E Smith of the fall. The guy from Doves. The guy from Magnetic Fields. Even Elliott Smith doesn't really have much of a voice in a technical sense. Even more egregious examples: J Mascis of Dinosaur Jr, Shaun Ryder of the Happy Mondays, Pete Shelley of the Buzzcocks. James Mercer of the Shins has a really strange wobbly voice. But what they all have in spades is that they sound like themselves and they let the character dominate their voice. Isaac Brock from Modest Mouse, another really weird voice full of character. Dan Behar of Destroyer/New Pornos. Man, I could go on and on.
Old 6th January 2012 | Show parent
  #60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davido View Post
haha! Yes it seems so! Let's shake hands, and start again, and please accept my apology for any offence caused.
Totally mate - my apologies too. Hands shaken.

Have a great weekend!
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