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Max Martins Powerful secrets to melodic math
Old 3rd October 2020
  #1
Gear Head
 

Max Martins Powerful secrets to melodic math

Hi,

I've written a article about how to Write better melodies like max Martin.

https://www.musicnerdrevolution.com/...s-melodic-math
Old 3rd October 2020
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by antepop View Post
Hi,

I've written a article about how to Write better melodies like max Martin.

https://www.musicnerdrevolution.com/...s-melodic-math
Sounds interesting!

I'll have to check that out. I don't much care for Martin's melodies, to the extent that I've been exposed to them. I think it could be valuable to understand their nature.

Quote:
One of his main characteristics is the use of popular children’s songs.
I find that pretty easy to believe. I've always complained about the puerile, sing-songy quality of his songs.

Even though I don't like Martin's music much, I did think your observation about working melodic elements from the refrain/chorus melody into the verse arrangement is a tactic that can be used to good advantage.

Thanks for the article.
Old 3rd October 2020 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Sounds interesting!

I'll have to check that out. I don't much care for Martin's melodies, to the extent that I've been exposed to them. I think it could be valuable to understand their nature.

I find that pretty easy to believe. I've always complained about the puerile, sing-songy quality of his songs.
The melodic math formula is something that is a great tool to learn if you like the music or not. 😊
Old 3rd October 2020 | Show parent
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by antepop View Post
The melodic math formula is something that is a great tool to learn if you like the music or not. 😊
While I found it all interesting, I'm not sure I really got the 'math' part of your article, though. I guess I was expecting something about melody and harmony as seen through the 'mathematical relationships' in those melodies and harmonies.
Old 3rd October 2020 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
While I found it all interesting, I'm not sure I really got the 'math' part of your article, though. I guess I was expecting something about melody and harmony as seen through the 'mathematical relationships' in those melodies and harmonies.
If you press play on the video in the blog post you will get more explanation of the formulas. 😊👍
Old 3rd October 2020 | Show parent
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by antepop View Post
If you press play on the video in the blog post you will get more explanation of the formulas. 😊👍
Thanks, antepop! I'll check that out.

Even if I don't share your enthusiasm for Martin's work (I guess I'm some kind of minority there ), I like to think we can learn valuable lessons from all sorts of stuff -- and, of course, as one exposes oneself to less-familiar music, one sometimes finds more to like that wasn't obvious at first glance.
Old 3rd October 2020
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Herr Weiss's Avatar
 

There Are No Secrets!

Understanding Counterpoint is fundamental. Once the 'rules' are assimilated, you will have a solid foundation; second to none.

Now, this knowledge will not necessarily be of any use if your brain cells are stagnant. You need to have a functioning antenna in order to pick up all the frequencies out there.

Traveling and visiting new cultures do wonders.
Any predetermined bias will not work in your favor.



~HW
Old 4th October 2020 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Thanks, antepop! I'll check that out.

Even if I don't share your enthusiasm for Martin's work (I guess I'm some kind of minority there ), I like to think we can learn valuable lessons from all sorts of stuff -- and, of course, as one exposes oneself to less-familiar music, one sometimes finds more to like that wasn't obvious at first glance.
Thanks and that's the way to get development.
Old 4th October 2020 | Show parent
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
There Are No Secrets!

Understanding Counterpoint is fundamental. Once the 'rules' are assimilated, you will have a solid foundation; second to none.

Now, this knowledge will not necessarily be of any use if your brain cells are stagnant. You need to have a functioning antenna in order to pick up all the frequencies out there.

Traveling and visiting new cultures do wonders.
Any predetermined bias will not work in your favor.



~HW
I was just taking a look at this... Looks like fun. But, since I never got beyond the decoding stage of notation reading/writing, any approach I make will be more guitar-in-hand.

http://musictheory.pugetsound.edu/mt...stSpecies.html
Old 4th October 2020
  #10
Deleted 222f60c
Guest
JS Bach copied Max Martin and added in some math stuff for his mixtapes
Old 4th October 2020 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 222f60c View Post
JS Bach copied Max Martin and added in some math stuff for his mixtapes
Is it so...😅
Old 4th October 2020 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Herr Weiss's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
[...] I was just taking a look at this... Looks like fun. [...]
Yes, Counterpoint is a lot of fun!
Luckly for us, there are tons of information available.

This one is a good read; enjoy.

http://alanbelkinmusic.com/bk.C/C.pdf

Have a wonderful day my friend!


~HW
Old 4th October 2020
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by antepop View Post
Hi,

I've written a article about how to Write better melodies like max Martin.

https://www.musicnerdrevolution.com/...s-melodic-math
If you’re going to write an article that claims mathematical secrets to a songwriter’s success, you might try actually including a mathematical formula of some sort, or at least hint to it - everything in your piece is common to practically every popular song ever written. I’m certainly not going to watch an additional video to try and find the point you’re trying to make.

You might also take a course in better writing - you have a lot of unnecessary words and you stray off point quite a bit. There’s a structure and form to writing an educational article, just as there is a song - it’s a “sell” and you need to learn it. People turn away unless you get down to business.

I’m glad you admire max martin, but fwiw, I have a former student who did a detailed analysis of Max’s songwriting - he really was able to break it down into steps. I don’t agree with this approach, but if you’re going to break it down, then break it down.
Old 4th October 2020 | Show parent
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
Yes, Counterpoint is a lot of fun!
Luckly for us, there are tons of information available.

This one is a good read; enjoy.

http://alanbelkinmusic.com/bk.C/C.pdf

Have a wonderful day my friend!


~HW
Thanks, HW!

I'm at a point in my exploration where looking at these 'rules' is providing food for thought and informing my realtime exploration and improvisation on the guitar.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
If you’re going to write an article that claims mathematical secrets to a songwriter’s success, you might try actually including a mathematical formula of some sort, or at least hint to it [...]
I have to admit that I was somewhat disappointed on this front, as well. I was kind of hoping for some specific insights that might help inform my own experiments and writing. Sharp's 'Dutch Uncle' advice above is probably worth some dispassionate consideration. The best, the most constructive criticism, can sometimes be a little uncomfortable, but listening and considering such criticism is often the way forward to either refining and improving one's own efforts or confirming that one prefers to go one's own way.
Old 4th October 2020 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Thanks, HW!

I'm at a point in my exploration where looking at these 'rules' is providing food for thought and informing my realtime exploration and improvisation on the guitar.


I have to admit that I was somewhat disappointed on this front, as well. I was kind of hoping for some specific insights that might help inform my own experiments and writing. Sharp's 'Dutch Uncle' advice above is probably worth some dispassionate consideration. The best, the most constructive criticism, can sometimes be a little uncomfortable, but listening and considering such criticism is often the way forward to either refining and improving one's own efforts or confirming that one prefers to go one's own way.
This was an interesting way this turned out to be.
I wanted to share an article and in the video Max Martin talks about how he does it.
I do more examples.

I wanted to share an article and a video that many songwriters love and thanking me for doing.

Hey, it is music. 😊

Stay safe.
Old 4th October 2020 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp11 View Post
If you’re going to write an article that claims mathematical secrets to a songwriter’s success, you might try actually including a mathematical formula of some sort, or at least hint to it - everything in your piece is common to practically every popular song ever written. I’m certainly not going to watch an additional video to try and find the point you’re trying to make.

You might also take a course in better writing - you have a lot of unnecessary words and you stray off point quite a bit. There’s a structure and form to writing an educational article, just as there is a song - it’s a “sell” and you need to learn it. People turn away unless you get down to business.

I’m glad you admire max martin, but fwiw, I have a former student who did a detailed analysis of Max’s songwriting - he really was able to break it down into steps. I don’t agree with this approach, but if you’re going to break it down, then break it down.
I think Max Martin himself calls it melodic math, or at least I've seen the term in other analyses of his work.
Old 4th October 2020 | Show parent
  #17
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanM View Post
I think Max Martin himself calls it melodic math, or at least I've seen the term in other analyses of his work.
Yes, he calls it that, and it is a tool to get more clarity in the melodies.
Old 4th October 2020
  #18
Lives for gear
 
huub's Avatar
Wow, that article has literally zero content.

Well, it has a lot of words.
Old 4th October 2020 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Thanks, HW!

I'm at a point in my exploration where looking at these 'rules' is providing food for thought and informing my realtime exploration and improvisation on the guitar.


I have to admit that I was somewhat disappointed on this front, as well. I was kind of hoping for some specific insights that might help inform my own experiments and writing. Sharp's 'Dutch Uncle' advice above is probably worth some dispassionate consideration. The best, the most constructive criticism, can sometimes be a little uncomfortable, but listening and considering such criticism is often the way forward to either refining and improving one's own efforts or confirming that one prefers to go one's own way.
Sometimes you just have to tell it like it is .... there’s too much sycophantic writing in this industry as it is, at least give us some intellectual content.
Old 4th October 2020
  #20
Lives for gear
 

Thankfully, I recently tested "Negative" for being sycophantic.

BTW I think Max's brothers Dean and Steve, both did great too.
Chris
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