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Give me your thoughts on love songs
Old 6th May 2020
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Give me your thoughts on love songs

Hello! It seems like nobody want to be in a relationship nowadays. And even if they were it must be mutually beneficial. They just want these temporary relationships. Eew.

I am old fashioned, and still super obsessed with love songs. I’m a Brickhead. I love Jim Brickman solo piano and music. It’s wonderful and breathtaking. I also like Spice Girls - 2 become one, Boyz 2 Men, All 4 One.

Tell me your thoughts on love songs compare to today’s music. What changed and why people are so cold nowadays? Man...Romantic, calm and soothing love songs hit different when you’re attracted to someone.

Whatever happen to genuine attraction?
Old 6th May 2020
  #2
Wow, this was very "get off my lawn".
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalrose View Post
Hello! It seems like nobody want to be in a relationship nowadays. And even if they were it must be mutually beneficial.
So a relationship shouldn't be mutually beneficial?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalrose View Post
Whatever happen to genuine attraction?
As opposed to 60 years ago? you could argue people are more freer to find a partner based on attraction than since the times of the cavemen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalrose View Post
like Spice Girls - 2 become one
"Two become one? That's subtraction! Someone got lost." - Sinbad -
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalrose View Post
Tell me your thoughts on love songs compare to today’s music. What changed and why people are so cold nowadays? Man...Romantic, calm and soothing love songs hit different when you’re attracted to someone.
Love songs and break up songs are as hot and great today as they've ever been. What I think your gripe is with RnB, and the fact that it's not as smooth and popular as it was in the 90s. But that's a music choice. that smooth bass has nothing to do with Millenials and younger generation's views on love.

"I dreamt I slept on a sidewalk, but you still laid with me
I dreamt I fell in a lion's den, and you still came for me
I dreamt I lost all of my faith, and you still prayed for me
Who the **** cares about these plaques on my wall?
You're still the only thing I've done right"


Jon Bellion - Conversations with my wife
Released: 2018


"I think I'm lost without you
I just feel crushed without you
I've been strong for so long
That I never thought how much I needed you
I think I'm lost without you"


Freya Ridings - Lost Without You
Released: 2019


"I fear I've grown a rolling stone inside of me
She said "Oh don't you know
The rolling stones stop at the sea,
And that's where I'll be."


Passenger - Rolling Stone
Released: 2014


"I slipped on myself, no help from anyone else
I fell in love and I was humbled

There she is
Isn't she everything?
There she is
Isn't she everything?"


Frank Turner - There She Is
Released: 2018


Now, if you don't like the actual music, then I can't help you. Music styles come and go. Maybe RnB will be back in 10 years. But it has little to do with new views on love.
Old 6th May 2020 | Show parent
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KellMartin View Post
Wow, this was very "get off my lawn".

So a relationship shouldn't be mutually beneficial

As opposed to 60 years ago? you could argue people are more freer to find a partner based on attraction than since the times of the cavemen.

"Two become one? That's subtraction! Someone got lost." - Sinbad -

Love songs and break up songs are as hot and great today as they've ever been. What I think your gripe is with RnB, and the fact that it's not as smooth and popular as it was in the 90s. But that's a music choice. that smooth bass has nothing to do with Millenials and younger generation's views on love.

"I dreamt I slept on a sidewalk, but you still laid with me
I dreamt I fell in a lion's den, and you still came for me
I dreamt I lost all of my faith, and you still prayed for me
Who the **** cares about these plaques on my wall?
You're still the only thing I've done right"


Jon Bellion - Conversations with my wife
Released: 2018


"I think I'm lost without you
I just feel crushed without you
I've been strong for so long
That I never thought how much I needed you
I think I'm lost without you"


Freya Ridings - Lost Without You
Released: 2019


"I fear I've grown a rolling stone inside of me
She said "Oh don't you know
The rolling stones stop at the sea,
And that's where I'll be."


Passenger - Rolling Stone
Released: 2014


"I slipped on myself, no help from anyone else
I fell in love and I was humbled

There she is
Isn't she everything?
There she is
Isn't she everything?"


Frank Turner - There She Is
Released: 2018


Now, if you don't like the actual music, then I can't help you. Music styles come and go. Maybe RnB will be back in 10 years. But it has little to do with new views on love.
I can’t tolerate a mutually beneficial relationship, especially if I’m the one providing her everything and all she does is give me sex, and very little attention. I’m seeking a more traditional monogamous relationship where she only sees me. Not into open relationship either.

I guess the kind of love songs I’m referring to is more in line with love ballads, or a typical 4/4 time signature. Slower tempo around 70 bpm or so.

Thanks for the lyrics. I’ll check it out in a bit.

Love songs affects my relationship. I can’t be with someone who doesn’t know how to show affection. People don’t want to fall in love nowadays. These females are so hot them dudes ain’t even speaking to each other, they’re just freaking.
Old 6th May 2020
  #4
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boombapdame's Avatar
 

How @ eternalrose old are you and where are you from?

While I don't write them but wish(ed) I could, I'm a sucker for some 90s R&B like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugMOl-cKg9g

later 2010s R&B like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pypg3H0VMzc

and 70s soul that still exists in the current era like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJWCwzE-Gl0

Attraction must be rooted in a mutual sense. Otherwise it's nothing.
Old 12th May 2020
  #5
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Bob Ross's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalrose View Post
I can’t tolerate a mutually beneficial relationship, especially if I’m the one providing her everything and all she does is give me sex, and very little attention.
Old 12th May 2020
  #6
I think he means it as in it's a faux soyboy excuse made to suggest that other relationships are not in some way mutually beneficial. At the end of the day it's just excusing potentially ****ty behavior by claiming that both parties knew what they were getting in to. Of course the reality is that you can never truly know what the other person wants and the OP is missing a trick by not realizing that's the crux or heart of pretty much every love song out there.

The problem is not realizing that there's always a market out there. People are still dating and getting married, and there's still playing around, and there's still unrequited love, and there's still obsession and there's still flings and the "free love" of the sexual revolution and there's still the uptight and the loose. Things haven't changed at all really.

Right this very minute there's more room for songs about breakup, makeup and rediscovery, what with everyone being forced to stay indoors with people they're only now realizing they don't really know that well because they've been busy with their "strong independent lives". And of course some of the best love songs are breakup songs, country music is full of this stuff, sad songs about our D.I.V.O.R.C.E. and so on.

It's up to your imagination, writing a love song with integrity requires quite a deep empathy. That means you can't denigrate your audience, you have to understand them and their emotions and not be reductive of them. Humans have not changed into some new species, but they are inundated with messages about how and who they're supposed to be that often run at odds with how and who they really are. Also music doesn't have to appeal to every single person on the planet. Write for yourself and if others agree then you'll find your base, if not then you've at least said what you have to.
Old 13th May 2020 | Show parent
  #7
Bob Ross
I thought so too, so I googled it. Apparently "Mutually benificial relationships" is a new term for all that sugar daddy stuff.

I'd say he might be searching for love in all the wrong places but I wouldn't know.
Old 14th May 2020
  #8
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Ernest Buckley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalrose View Post
Hello! It seems like nobody want to be in a relationship nowadays. And even if they were it must be mutually beneficial. They just want these temporary relationships. Eew.

I am old fashioned, and still super obsessed with love songs. I’m a Brickhead. I love Jim Brickman solo piano and music. It’s wonderful and breathtaking. I also like Spice Girls - 2 become one, Boyz 2 Men, All 4 One.

Tell me your thoughts on love songs compare to today’s music. What changed and why people are so cold nowadays? Man...Romantic, calm and soothing love songs hit different when you’re attracted to someone.

Whatever happen to genuine attraction?
Love the question and was actually entertaining a similar thought today while driving while listening to my sons music which is mostly Top 40 Hip Hop or whatever its called and The Weekend who I actually like a lot but his song Heartless is really disturbing.

I think the romantic love song is dead in Top 40 for the most part. Its simply not cool. The idea of being with one person romantically is archaic and no longer relates to the most of the younger listeners. Its more about having a good time and then moving on. I don't agree with the message but I think thats what pop culture is about. Its more about image. Lots of these "artists" are writing about all the money they make, how they spend it on alcohol and drugs, and can't escape the women... its kind of silly but thats where we`re at musically in 2020.

EB
Old 29th May 2020
  #9
Gear Nut
 
CupcakeKitten's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalrose View Post
Hello! It seems like nobody want to be in a relationship nowadays. And even if they were it must be mutually beneficial. They just want these temporary relationships. Eew.

Tell me your thoughts on love songs compare to today’s music. What changed and why people are so cold nowadays? Man...Romantic, calm and soothing love songs hit different when you’re attracted to someone.

Whatever happen to genuine attraction?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalrose View Post
I can’t tolerate a mutually beneficial relationship, especially if I’m the one providing her everything and all she does is give me sex, and very little attention.


Love songs affects my relationship. I can’t be with someone who doesn’t know how to show affection. People don’t want to fall in love nowadays. These females are so hot them dudes ain’t even speaking to each other, they’re just freaking.
Dude who hurt you?

This might be one of the most weirdly misogynistic takes on "modern music is sh*t" i've heard in quite a long time.

Of course relationships should be mutual and respectful. One person holding all the cards in a relationship and using that to their advantage simply isn't healthy. The fact that people have standards, expectations and confidence in themselves and are exploring what they want from a relationship, and they have the confidence to communicate that doesn't mean people aren't "looking for genuine attraction", or they "don't want to fall in love nowadays". Quite the opposite IMO.

Modern music reflects that (and not exclusively 'modern music' either - there were always fierce men and women who rejected what was expected of them culturally and socially). Songs are reflecting that it's okay to have certain experiences, it's good to leave a toxic relationship and "ride or die" means sticking with someone through 'fortune or famine', not being an excuse to tolerate and excuse awful behaviour and toxic, uncaring partners to your own detriment - no matter the gender.

The fact that romance doesn't follow your story and love doesn't follow your script is a failure of imagination and empathy on your part, not the failure of modern music to reflect modern love stories.
Old 8th June 2020
  #10
Now that we've more or less sorted out the apparent, new term-of-art 'mutually beneficial relationship' to mean a shallow transactional sort of thing, I'll be able to sleep tonight.


With regard to 'pure' love songs (songs of praise for a loved one) versus love ballads (a 'ballad' traditionally means a 'story' song -- that's why there are 'gunfighter ballads'), I find the former to generally be so one-dimensional, bland, and generic as to totally bore me.

The story of a love, whether happy (for instance, the old Hollies "Bus Stop") or sad/unhappy/unrequited/tragic, on the other hand, I find at least potentially interesting, maybe even compelling.

(I feel the same way about religious songs; songs that simply slather praise on the perceived Almighty don't do much for me at all; but a song of spiritual longing, the struggle to be better, do do right, to find union with the infinite -- THAT I find interesting, even as a nonbeliever.)
Old 8th June 2020
  #11
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I @ theblue1 have never been fond of the sappiness of pure love songs for the reasons you stated. Who were/are the worst offenders of such?

I also am a sucker for the story of a love, and I absolutely love ballads like this at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXr5RG3IvNY
Old 8th June 2020 | Show parent
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
I @ theblue1 have never been fond of the sappiness of pure love songs for the reasons you stated. Who were/are the worst offenders of such?

I also am a sucker for the story of a love, and I absolutely love ballads like this at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXr5RG3IvNY
I'll offer -- to me, one of the treacliest, most annoying songs I've ever heard -- this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IATz8ZVTALo

(I'll admit, if I dispassionately analyze the lyric, it's a kind of song of romantic struggle, and it has some vivid descriptive elements. But, damn, it really makes me nuts. Not in a good way.)



[To the old GF who gave me a copy of that single for Val Day a million years ago, let me just apologize for laughing out loud. We just didn't hear the song the same way. I am sorry.]
Old 21st June 2020 | Show parent
  #13
Deleted f7717eb
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Now that we've more or less sorted out the apparent, new term-of-art 'mutually beneficial relationship' to mean a shallow transactional sort of thing, I'll be able to sleep tonight.


With regard to 'pure' love songs (songs of praise for a loved one) versus love ballads (a 'ballad' traditionally means a 'story' song -- that's why there are 'gunfighter ballads'), I find the former to generally be so one-dimensional, bland, and generic as to totally bore me.

The story of a love, whether happy (for instance, the old Hollies "Bus Stop") or sad/unhappy/unrequited/tragic, on the other hand, I find at least potentially interesting, maybe even compelling.

(I feel the same way about religious songs; songs that simply slather praise on the perceived Almighty don't do much for me at all; but a song of spiritual longing, the struggle to be better, do do right, to find union with the infinite -- THAT I find interesting, even as a nonbeliever.)
I always enjoy your posts because they are so eloquent and clear.
My opinion on the subject of love songs is less clear and certainly not eloquent:
If you have loved deeply and lost it all (probably more than one time), it is likely you will find emotional reward in love songs. The challenge for some of us on this forum is that we are writers and have that added biased layer of aptitude and critique which can inhibit our appreciation, naturally.
Old 21st June 2020 | Show parent
  #14
Deleted f7717eb
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by boombapdame View Post
I @ theblue1 have never been fond of the sappiness of pure love songs for the reasons you stated. Who were/are the worst offenders of such?

I also am a sucker for the story of a love, and I absolutely love ballads like this at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXr5RG3IvNY
Love the harmony change at "let me show".....sweet.
Thanks for the link!
Old 21st June 2020
  #15
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drsaamah's Avatar
I clicked on this thread hoping for an awesome conversation about the problematic nature of "love songs" (as a catch-all phrase for a psuedo-genre).
Didn't expect the misogynistic whining of simpleton who has a monolithic concept of all old love songs versus all modern love songs.
I bet its really convenient to assume your experiences are reflective of a universal reality. Must also be convenient to blame all women for it.
Old 23rd June 2020 | Show parent
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by drcmusic View Post
I always enjoy your posts because they are so eloquent and clear.
[...]
Thanks for the kind words.

I wanted to be a technical writer when I grew up. But then I read that you shouldn't use words with more than 2 or 3 syllables when writing for the general public... that's a straightjacket I wasn't going to get into without a fight.
Old 25th June 2020 | Show parent
  #17
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CupcakeKitten's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drsaamah View Post
I clicked on this thread hoping for an awesome conversation about the problematic nature of "love songs" (as a catch-all phrase for a psuedo-genre).
Didn't expect the misogynistic whining of simpleton who has a monolithic concept of all old love songs versus all modern love songs.
I bet its really convenient to assume your experiences are reflective of a universal reality. Must also be convenient to blame all women for it.
Right on. It seems to be a bit of a recurring theme on this forum to sh!t on "modern music". I joined this forum to try and fill gaps in my knowledge and talk about lyrics and songwriting, but instead I find myself stuck post after post defending modern music and artists

I'm curious though, what do you find problematic about love songs? Personally i'm not too keen on the theme in general - I find it a bit of a magnet for cheesy, predictable rhymes. At it's absolute worst you find stories ranging from boring through to obnoxious, then uncomfortable through to full on 'yikes'. That's not unique to love songs though I guess. Of course there are some great love songs, both modern and 'vintage', but it's certainly not my favourite theme to tackle as a writer and lyricist. My "banned lines/phrases/rhymes" list is quite extensive
Old 26th June 2020 | Show parent
  #18
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drsaamah's Avatar
It's good to talk to a fellow artistic-masochist (I think it makes us principled ). I have a lot of rules myself.
So this discussion is tricky because we do have to define exactly what is a love song and I'm entirely to tired to go through that right now. But a lot of my problem does have to do with defining LOVE itself, as there isn't a definition or at least it manifests itself in many ways. I think we can agree that our culture treats love like many other commodities, as something to own to possess to acquire, and I think music's role in this is important and must be considered (usually that role is reinforcing the problematic yet popular narratives).
But anyways, like you, I definitely do appreciate quite a few love songs. But I am absolutely never trying to write one lol. I'll leave that for the younger songwriters
Old 26th June 2020
  #19
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Quote:
this discussion is tricky because we do have to define exactly what is a love song
That's interesting. Could America the Beautiful be considered a love song? I ask because I'm thinking of turning a song I'm working on into an ode to Canada. Not that I'm from there or anything, although I do like the place and the people. The word "Canada" has the right number of syllables. I'd just slip into the shoes of a Canadian who loves their country.
Old 26th June 2020 | Show parent
  #20
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drsaamah's Avatar
So my point exactly. We could totally call that a love song. But that's definitely not the kind of song I'm thinking of when I brought up the "problematic nature of 'love songs'."
Old 26th June 2020
  #21
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What @ drsaamah is an example of the problematic nature of love songs besides predictability? Also, the love as commodity issue has as much to do w/lack of imagination on lyricists part as much as business formulas for making money. The love as commodity issue is why I tune(d) out to much of R&B since the early 2000s to part of now w/some exceptions like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF2_HkAGsSI
Old 26th June 2020
  #22
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drsaamah's Avatar
So besides predictability, the notion that is reinforced through most love songs (as well as in our movies, television shows, books, etc) is that of possession, as an abstract relationship between 2 people as opposed to a way of living that is inclusive. I absolutely agree that a lack of imagination is part of the problem. When creativity lacks, its obviously easier to go with the status quo. Basic love songs write themselves. They're ingrained in our psyche.
Old 29th June 2020 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Now that we've more or less sorted out the apparent, new term-of-art 'mutually beneficial relationship' to mean a shallow transactional sort of thing, I'll be able to sleep tonight.
I guess Pet Shop Boys captured that shallow transactional vibe in "Rent"

Quote:
We never, ever argue, we never calculate
The currency we've spent
I love you, you pay my rent
Good songs could be written (and perhaps have been) explicitly rejecting that vibe. Like "I Second that Emotion" rejecting promiscuity in favor of love.
Old 29th June 2020
  #24
One of my favourite day to day domestic put the kettle on love albums is Worker's Playtime by Billy Bragg. It's lovely and the lyrics are packed with perfectly observed pathos.

Cannot recommend it highly enough.

"I remember you said to me, that no amount of poetry would mend this broken heart, but you can put the Hoover 'round if you want to make a start"
Old 29th June 2020 | Show parent
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by OliverOctave View Post
I guess Pet Shop Boys captured that shallow transactional vibe in "Rent"



Good songs could be written (and perhaps have been) explicitly rejecting that vibe. Like "I Second that Emotion" rejecting promiscuity in favor of love.
Ah, but where would we be without this smoker:



There are a few seconds of dead air at the beginning.
Old 29th June 2020 | Show parent
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drsaamah View Post
[. . .] I definitely do appreciate quite a few love songs. But I am absolutely never trying to write one lol. I'll leave that for the younger songwriters
Don’t know offhand what composers wrote their best love songs in their twilight years?. . .will have to do some research and get back with you on that.

But I adore Armstrong’s vocal on What A Wonderful World - a love song in its own way. And I love Burt Bacharach’s piano and elderly vocal into to Rumor’s take on This Girl’s In Love.

Like you, I took a look at this thread earlier, but couldn’t make a go of it - as the presuppositions and content just didn’t inspire any deep thought. One can easily criticize 50 ways.

But, I do think the old have much to say about love. Maybe you will get inspired again some day and jot one down for us? Hope so.

Thanks, Boom for the link to Jagged Edge! I enjoyed that.

Thanks TK. You did right - although like with Elvis on Suspicious Minds, I like the hot, steamy, slow version more. And then there is the very naughty Eartha Kitt - C'est Si Bon - I wasn’t offended by anything she did.


Lord Almighty, I feel my temperature risin’,

Ray H. [a.k.a. Just a hunk, a hunk of burning love]


Old 29th June 2020
  #27
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“Ah, music," he said, wiping his eyes. "A magic beyond all we do here!”

– J.K. Rowling, Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone




ns
Old 29th June 2020 | Show parent
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drsaamah View Post
as an abstract relationship between 2 people as opposed to a way of living that is inclusive.
But that's pretty much a given for any subject matter that is going to have universality or mass appeal: The more specific a narrative is -- the more it describes actuality rather than a vague abstraction -- the less easily it can be interpreted and understood to be applicable and appealing to Everyman [sic]
Old 2nd July 2020 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
drsaamah's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Ross View Post
But that's pretty much a given for any subject matter that is going to have universality or mass appeal: The more specific a narrative is -- the more it describes actuality rather than a vague abstraction -- the less easily it can be interpreted and understood to be applicable and appealing to Everyman [sic]
So if I understand you correctly, you're saying the reinforcement of the hegemony will necessarily occur in anything with mass appeal? Maybe you're right. But as a listener, I still get to scoff
Old 2nd July 2020
  #30
Channeling Horkheimer on Gearslutz
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