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Why do I generally get bored faster with electronic music than anything else?
Old 3rd April 2020
  #31
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Quote:
I even wanted to make soundtrack music at one point, but that would require me to use VST orchestras, and I couldn't handle the fake strings anymore. If I had the budget and the talent I would compose orchestral music all day at Abbey Road, but that's not going to happen.

So now I'm trying to make instrumental rock, layered stuff. Something for every mood. Something that isn't linear. And something I can pour my heart into.
.. of fake strings .. 'n guitars ..
and some boredom relief ..........

some months back .. i started messing about with a granular synth vst
this one .. .. http://sound-guru.com/software/mangle/ .. ( the Mangle }

was using 'mpc' sftwr as a d.a.w. ..
then decided to gets to grips with the 'reaper' ..
it had been on my comp. for 12months 'n i'd not really explored it

so couple of days back .. tried the 'mangle' from within 'reaper'
major fail .. from half the 'mangle' giu vanishing ( which got fixed after a while )
to .. causing 'reaper' to suddenly quit when trying to save 'mangle' files
tried loading it within the 'mpc' sftwr. .. still had the same issues ..

called quits now .. with the 'mangle'

~

while trying to sort it out ..
i had prev. sampled all the E notes off an elec. guitar
and sampled an Emnr chord .. stretched it ( in 'Audacity' app )
and shoved those into the 'mangle' ..
instant random-evolving drone ..
( apps ive tried have a 'latch' mode )

usefulness? .. noodling on guitar ..
trying out various ideas .. in key .. keeping noodling 'musical'
spent an hour or so recently .. open tuned guitar
slide and fretted ..
playing against / with a 'mangle' patch ..
noodling like that .. 4me .. generates musical ideas ..
and .. i find it good ear - pitch training

so gives ideas .. and it not be boring
( i.e. evolving changing textures .. etc .. )

~

trawled thru various sites looking for a replacement
for mac ..
https://www.macosaudio.com/tag/granular/#close
mac / pc ..
https://vstbuzz.com/blog/top-10-gran...-plugins-2019/
e.g. : interesting vst .. but very-irritating-to-use-demo-version ..
https://www.inertiasoundsystems.com/...ts/granulizer/

~

finaly settled on 'spacecraft' ..
demo app good for 30 days ..
( originaly for iOS i think .. now for mac osx / windows )

~~~
product page
https://www.tracktion.com/products/spacecraft
intro vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wk_SfHRNvgo
patch demo vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=cntm2YA6rMs
~~~~~

oh yeah .. .. of ..
Quote:
fake strings
have heard some interesting possibilities for elec 'strings'
whilst experimenting with the granulator apps ..
given some apps include envelopes .. modulation .. sequencing locked to host app
fun to be had :-) .. 'n useful for guitar noodles ..`

~

BTW:
for folk interested in guitar based mp3s ..
be some on this old-ish thread :

@ post no.s :
65 / 79 / 81 / 85 / 86 / 102 / 104 / 105 / 107 / 109 / 110 / 111 / 116 / 118 ..

Sounds - for fun and profit. Post good stuff!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Old 12th April 2020
  #32
I read the question and blew past all of the previous responses because my first thoughts were 'food fight'.

I would speculate that the fatigue comes from the lack of organic content. Electronic sine waves are too perfect to entertain some portion of our brain that requires constant stimulation. Strings, for instance, never vibrate at the exact frequency, and they are like spices or flavouring in food. A strict diet of electronic music would be like eating beans for every meal. Yeah, there's lots of different varieties, but $h!t fire, pretty soon, you're gonna get sick of beans.

I really got into Larry Fast & Jean-Michael Jarre back in the 70s, but I rarely listen to them any more, whereas I'm still likely to throw in some Kansas or Steely Dan these days. See where I'm coming from?
Old 12th April 2020
  #33
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Well I think it's partially song writing, there's a fine between using chords for the sake of chords vs a standard done to death progression. A reason why 80s songs sound generally interesting to me is because they hit that sweet spot. Bit of modulation etc without going all weird and prog on me.

Also, groove. Proper groove not quantisation.
Old 12th April 2020
  #34
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I have my theory.
Old 12th April 2020
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
I have my theory.
Please share.
Old 12th April 2020
  #36
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Quote:
whereas I'm still likely to throw in some Kansas or Steely Dan these days. See where I'm coming from?
My prefence what kind of music to listen to can change a bit from time to time but I never get bored of SD.
Old 12th April 2020
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidaudio View Post
Please share.
Man. Really? It's just my theory. I haven't read any of the replies so apologies if I'm going over things said or if it's not following the threads train of thought.

I think for a thousand years, maybe millions, human beings have created music with their bodies. Direct contact with the vibrations and wavelengths they created. Rocks, sticks, strings, wood flutes, more sophisticated instruments. Eventually there were levers and hammers that put a little distance between the fingers and the strings -keyboard. But there was a direct relationship between the person creating the music and performing it He or she worked to shape the timbre, quality of the musical tone. And I think the relationship the audience had with this music was direct.

Electronic music puts a greater distance. Generally it's not the musician who is shaping the timbre but rather some engineer creating algorithms. And sometimes it's not even the fingers that are playing the notes. It's all manipulated. AND, although this goes beyond the realm of purely electronic music but music USED to be performed and listened to on the same time stream. Recorded music doesn't do this any more, not for a very long time.

I just think over time the trickery wears on the listener in ways the listener isn't fully aware. When you can manipulate perfection it wears. It's obviously not real and no one pretends it's real. But the robot-ism of it all gets old. I think the listener sometimes just wants to hear a little humanity.

I put on some actual acoustic music, real acoustic guitars, real drums, bass, singer all performing in the same room at the same time with great skill, it's like stepping into a forest or walking on the beach. Fresh air. Even if it's not perfect, but maybe especially because it's not. The artist is directly controlling the wavelengths and the effect to the audience. If it's good, they can feel it and the performers know it.

That's my theory. There's GREAT electronic music, but like you, after awhile it wears on my nerves. .
Old 12th April 2020
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Man. Really? It's just my theory. I haven't read any of the replies so apologies if I'm going over things said or if it's not following the threads train of thought.

I think for a thousand years, maybe millions, human beings have created music with their bodies. Direct contact with the vibrations and wavelengths they created. Rocks, sticks, strings, wood flutes, more sophisticated instruments. Eventually there were levers and hammers that put a little distance between the fingers and the strings -keyboard. But there was a direct relationship between the person creating the music and performing it He or she worked to shape the timbre, quality of the musical tone. And I think the relationship the audience had with this music was direct.

Electronic music puts a greater distance. Generally it's not the musician who is shaping the timbre but rather some engineer creating algorithms. And sometimes it's not even the fingers that are playing the notes. It's all manipulated. AND, although this goes beyond the realm of purely electronic music but music USED to be performed and listened to on the same time stream. Recorded music doesn't do this any more, not for a very long time.

I just think over time the trickery wears on the listener in ways the listener isn't fully aware. When you can manipulate perfection it wears. It's obviously not real and no one pretends it's real. But the robot-ism of it all gets old. I think the listener sometimes just wants to hear a little humanity.

I put on some actual acoustic music, real acoustic guitars, real drums, bass, singer all performing in the same room at the same time with great skill, it's like stepping into a forest or walking on the beach. Fresh air. Even if it's not perfect, but maybe especially because it's not. The artist is directly controlling the wavelengths and the effect to the audience. If it's good, they can feel it and the performers know it.

That's my theory. There's GREAT electronic music, but like you, after awhile it wears on my nerves. .
Well I guess this pretty much sums up the problem.
Old 12th April 2020
  #39
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Btw I hate acoustic guitar music, nothing bores me more than Ed Sheeran or any of those mfs jangling away
Old 12th April 2020
  #40
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeminIAm View Post
Btw I hate acoustic guitar music, nothing bores me more than Ed Sheeran or any of those mfs jangling away
Your citation of Ed Sheeran suggests the problem is not the guitar.
Old 12th April 2020
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaultK View Post
Your citation of Ed Sheeran suggests the problem is not the guitar.
Well you know the kind of music I'm on about. Some dude with a usually quite annoying voice (Blunt, Passenger, Dylan, Sheeran, etc you name it) strumming along in a basic manner whilst singing a very forgettable song about a girl or some other done to death stuff.

I love that video of that guy playing Careless Whisper on an acoustic, actually playing the tuning pegs and tapping away - the issue isn't the guitar lol.
Old 12th April 2020
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Electronic music puts a greater distance. Generally it's not the musician who is shaping the timbre but rather some engineer creating algorithms. And sometimes it's not even the fingers that are playing the notes. It's all manipulated. AND, although this goes beyond the realm of purely electronic music but music USED to be performed and listened to on the same time stream. Recorded music doesn't do this any more, not for a very long time.

I just think over time the trickery wears on the listener in ways the listener isn't fully aware. When you can manipulate perfection it wears. It's obviously not real and no one pretends it's real. But the robot-ism of it all gets old. I think the listener sometimes just wants to hear a little humanity.
I appreciate you are an accomplished musician and I'm not trying to debate you (or your theory).

But it is accurate (to me) up to the point where you say it necessarily wears thin on the listener. It's a bit like music theory. You can analyse Dylan sitting on a chord or Lennon singing like an ambulance but you are picking up things that make people love or hate it.

Similarly, the cold robotism and repetition of stuff is what makes me love certain things.

A perceptive listener like yourself could probably list everything you hate about this and it would be all the reasons I love it (and don't get tired of it).

Old 12th April 2020
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeminIAm View Post
Well you know the kind of music I'm on about. Some dude with a usually quite annoying voice (Blunt, Passenger, Dylan, Sheeran, etc you name it) strumming along in a basic manner whilst singing a very forgettable song about a girl or some other done to death stuff.

I love that video of that guy playing Careless Whisper on an acoustic, actually playing the tuning pegs and tapping away - the issue isn't the guitar lol.
The issue might become clearer in a mirror.

If you mean Bob Dylan I'm pretty sure he wasn't invited to play at the March on Washington so that he sing about a girl. Although Medgar Evers was "done to death" it wasn't in the way you mean.

I hope you are currently angry, trolling, or very young because comparing him to Blunt/Etc is very very silly. Likewise your example of good use of an acoustic guitar.

If I was citing dudes playing acoustic guitars I'd say (Robert Johnson, Neil Young, Nick Drake, etc) but that's maybe why I don't hate it.
Old 12th April 2020
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeminIAm View Post
Btw I hate acoustic guitar music, nothing bores me more than Ed Sheeran or any of those mfs jangling away
Ha. I don't even know Ed Sheeran.
Old 13th April 2020
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
Ha. I don't even know Ed Sheeran.
Me neither, too. And I play quite a bit on the acoustic.
Old 13th April 2020
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny nowhere View Post
Me neither, too. And I play quite a bit on the acoustic.
I have had students request some of his songs. Even though I went to YouTUBE and learned them by ear I can’t tell you one now.
Old 13th April 2020
  #47
Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
I have had students request some of his songs. Even though I went to YouTUBE and learned them by ear I can’t tell you one now.
Damn. You know I'm gonna have to go listen now, right?

Addendum: Oh, that guy.

Last edited by johnny nowhere; 13th April 2020 at 01:35 AM.. Reason: Addendum wasn't worth separate post.
Old 13th April 2020
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny nowhere View Post
Damn. You know I'm gonna have to go listen now, right?

Addendum: Oh, that guy.
LOL!!
Old 15th April 2020
  #49
There's two factors at play there though. Firstly as you get older your ability to learn diminishes, at the same time (ironically) your memory still works fine. This means you hear more and more that (via pattern selection in your brain) sounds the same as stuff you have heard before, you hear the connections, know the path that lead to this sound. In order to process it your brain just tells you it's familiar and you don't bother to take it in as a piece, just as a genre. In essence it becomes harder to listen with fresh ears as you get older.

The second is that Ed and others really are product of a shrinking industry with fewer and fewer producers controlling all of the sounds we hear day to day. You know the sound of every single mormon band out there, you know the sound of Jake Gosling (Ed's producer) and so on, because it's everywhere. It's a lot of product with a decreasing number of unique sounds and perspectives.

All I can say is don't write off a whole approach to music because of the generic stuff in there. There's always good and bad and just product whether it's made with computers or a guy with an acoustic guitar. These are popular genres and the reason is not because of the dross, but the gems. You have to find those gems for yourself though.
Old 22nd April 2020
  #50
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I think it seems to co-opt the most human of expressions, music, and turn it into a post-human phenomenon. It seems to obviate the need for musicians. It doesn't have a clear human source. The samples are anonymous, and the sampled musical expressions of the human performers are taken out of context and sanitised by masked and helmeted DJs. We can't associate the melodies that move us with names and faces. We feel something, but in a vacuum. There is a lot of disconnection from our caveman cravings perhaps.

I recently stumbled upon great African music, it made me realize how far we have come. Check it out:


Last edited by Liquidaudio; 22nd April 2020 at 04:44 PM..
Old 25th April 2020
  #51
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Vangelis quote:

"I still believe that electronic sounds sound equally natural. The only thing that is changed is the source. And somehow they even go further than acoustic instruments, because you can produce sounds closer to the sounds of the universe. Human beings express themselves through the acoustic instruments that we know today. But these instruments have limitations as well. They don't have limitations of the expression of feeling. But they have limitations of sound.

And I guess that's why we produce the symphony orchestra. Because it's like the first synthesizer, we put together the different areas of sound and we create colours, and situations between those different families of sound.

And then you have the symphony orchestra otherwise why do we have the symphony orchestra. It was in need to have that, in order to enrich, enlarge the spectrum.

But with the electronic instruments we go even further than that. And why are they not natural? I mean the whole universe is electricity. It's waves."
Old 1st May 2020
  #52
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I'm with Vangelis. I think trying to come up with objective reasons why electronic music is inferior because a small sample size likes it less is an exercise in self centered nonsense.

I'm this way with jazz. I get bored with it faster than anything else, despite being fairly proficient at jazz guitar (at one point in time, at least) and having gone through a fairly heavy jazz phase. This doesn't mean I then try to list objective reasons why its an inferior form of music. That's absurd. If I want the answer to "why does jazz bore me" I look to myself.

@ theblue1 's quote from the other thread fits here too:

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
A wise man is sitting outside the gated walls of a great city. A traveler approaches. "Tell me, wise man, what kind of people will I find here?"

"What kind of of people did you find in the city whence you come?" asked the wise man.

"Good and kind. Generous and friendly."

"You will find the same, here, traveler."


Later that same day, another traveler approached the wise man.

"Wise man -- what sorts of men and women live in yon city?"

"What sorts of people did you find in the city you are coming from?"

"Fools and dolts, cheats and swindlers. A pack of liars."

"Sadly, my friend, you will find the same here."
Old 1st May 2020
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnorionsound View Post
I'm with Vangelis. I think trying to come up with objective reasons why electronic music is inferior because a small sample size likes it less is an exercise in self centered nonsense.

I tried to make this point last page. . I'm this way with jazz. I get bored with it faster than anything else, despite being fairly proficient at jazz guitar (at one point in time, at least) and having gone through a fairly heavy jazz phase. This doesn't mean I then try to list objective reasons why its an inferior form of music. That's absurd. If I want the answer to "why does jazz bore me" I look to myself.

@ theblue1 's quote from the other thread fits here too:
I'm not saying that it's an inferior form of music. I'm figuring out the multiple pros and cons of both.
Old 1st May 2020
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidaudio View Post
I'm not saying that it's an inferior form of music. I'm figuring out the multiple pros and cons of both.
That's fair. Not just speaking to you, I was looking over the full two pages. The discussion has seemed to go with "it is indeed more boring" as a given, and then "here are the reasons why."

When in fact, the given entirely depends on the person and their own taste, which means its not a given at all.
Old 20th June 2020
  #55
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I guess it all depends on what it is what makes music resonate with you as a person. The purpose of music is to communicate an idea which is open for the listener to interpret and resonate with. Many people, many ways of resonating. Electronic music as a style (house, techno, that kind) is looking to resonate with people on a sensory level: it's main purpose is to make you dance and provide a setting for a certain kind of experience/context (the memories you make when clubbing/partying). It's not really designed to have an emotional "intellectual" impact. The "emotional" content in it is (if it's there already) superficial, as reflected in the lyrics. It is meant to be easily digestible. Harmonically and melodically there is not much "sophistication" (complex harmony/scales/time signatures). Dissonant harmonies don't go well with dance floors of these times.

If you are looking for deeper connections, then that genre will probably not provide it (though there are always exceptions). I think that it is difficult to have a profound deep emotional bond with instrumental music if the music itself is not deep. The analogy of music being a language is still my favourite and illustrates the point well: you might enjoy simple stories and it will totally work. But the work of Shakespeare touches people and makes them reflect on themselves and their surroundings. In pop music, we usually rely on the lyrics for the connection. But in electronic music, there is nothing much. Jazz on the other hand is rich, deep, and even if it is instrumental people will have deeper emotional connections to it. Just listen to Coltrane or Miles playing. They are interesting and profound messages, but not for everybody to resonate with. But that's no different from Shakespeare, he's not for everybody either.
Old 20th June 2020
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santibanks View Post
[...] But that's no different from Shakespeare, he's not for everybody either.
A lot of it depends on how one is made acquainted with "certain" works; be them in Literature, Music, Philosophy, Art, History, etc.

I am sure the average joe would find joy, once he is properly introduced to Shakespeare.

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/shakespeare-uncovered/

Truth be told, a 'good education' is not fairly distributed among the population and most walk around wearing blinders; of no fault of their own.


~HW
Old 20th June 2020
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidaudio View Post
I grew up with electronic music, I always loved other stuff on the side but it was mostly electronic music that caught my attention at first. Now that I'm older and wiser, (well I don't know about the latter but..) I feel that it's time to focus on the one string instrument that still finds it's way to charm me and that's my electric guitar. In a world where everything is fake and synthesized, my insides crave realness.

I was on a search for settling on a genre to pursue. I came to the conclusion that pretty much everything has been done. I even wanted to make soundtrack music at one point, but that would require me to use VST orchestras, and I couldn't handle the fake strings anymore. If I had the budget and the talent I would compose orchestral music all day at Abbey Road, but that's not going to happen.

So now I'm trying to make instrumental rock, layered stuff. Something for every mood. Something that isn't linear. And something I can pour my heart into. Tried pouring my heart into a Moog synth last year, I sold the damn thing.
The 'search for settling on a genre to pursue' feels awkward to me.... do you need to think about what genre you are going to do before you start composing? That's not meant as an attack in any way, but seems indicative of an over reliance on genre filters to me... why not just start playing/composing something without any idea as to what form/genre it will take...
Old 27th June 2020
  #58
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No one listens to 'Gregorian chanting' - ok actually maybe 3 people and some music students.

The issue is that almost all music is pretty mediocre. The appetite far exceeds the transcendent. Most of it becomes boring eventually.
You have Miles Davis and Igor Stravinsky Jimi Hendrix and Johannes Brahms and a few dozen more truly masterful creators of music which truly excels and then ... argue about who is in / out of this list but the list exists.
As much as I like / love house and techno they may be no one who really rates inclusion ... although Starlight seems pretty hard to wear out.
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