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actual good songwriting forum?
Old 9th July 2020
  #151
Deleted f7717eb
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Quinn View Post
Aw, c’mon, post your finest work in the “finished demos“ forum. I want to hear your musical voice to understand where you’re coming from.

I promise to be just as kind and courteous as I am to everyone else.

C’mon, you can do this! Be fearless!

You know I posted there, as you commented on it.

*The most important thing in being a good producer is being an enthusiastic coach, or even a “hype man” when necessary. But it is important to read the room, and know when it simply isn’t the right time. This is my first lesson to you as you are clearly also an aspiring… well I’m not sure what, but let me know.
I'm an aspiring somebody currently at the nobody phase. This phase is known to last up to 92 years.
Old 9th July 2020
  #152
Deleted f7717eb
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I'm sorry... Just WTF is that supposed to mean?
That means you get a shiny new trophy, congratulations!!
Old 9th July 2020
  #153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted f7717eb View Post
That means you get a shiny new trophy, congratulations!!
You know, I tried to take your comments and questions seriously, to answer them honestly. For a while I was trying to fool myself into thinking you're not as big a jerk as you came off through your persistent hectoring. But... nope.

Don't bother trying to interact with me again.
Old 9th July 2020
  #154
Deleted f7717eb
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
You know, I tried to take your comments and questions seriously, to answer them honestly. For a while I was trying to fool myself into thinking you're not as big a jerk as you came off through your persistent hectoring. But... nope.

Don't bother trying to interact with me again.
You're entitled to your opinion of course.
Maybe try to tone down your seriousness.

I will not interact with you, no worries.
Old 9th July 2020
  #155
Gear Nut
 
Anthony Quinn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted f7717eb View Post
I'm an aspiring somebody currently at the nobody phase. This phase is known to last up to 92 years.
So, are you telling me you were born in 1928, or are you saying that once you turn 92, you’ll have your big reveal and finally post your music in the “finished demos” section of this forum?

I think your aspirations should be more specific at this point, else that might just slip through your grasp.
Old 9th July 2020
  #156
Deleted f7717eb
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Quinn View Post
So, are you telling me you were born in 1928, or are you saying that once you turn 92, you’ll have your big reveal and finally post your music in the “finished demos” section of this forum?

I think your aspirations should be more specific at this point, else that might just slip through your grasp.
I agree.
Old 9th July 2020
  #157
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyHatGuy View Post
Wow, the self-loathing in this thread is palpable.
Maybe. But who else knows more about what there is to loathe?
Old 13th July 2020
  #158
Gear Head
 
CupcakeKitten's Avatar
 

Oof this thread has taken a bit of a turn.

As far as the OP's question goes though, I think there's a lot of valid points here. Yes, trust is necessary when it comes to opening up unfinished and unpublished work. Criticism is tough when you feel like you're showing a bit of your soul, and it can be a big step for many. Of course that's going to happen at one point or another, both to a 'professional' and 'non professional' audience, but that doesn't change the fact that art is often inherently personal and opening up an unfinished or imperfect version to strangers is undoubtedly an intimidating prospect.

I also have to wonder with 'suing culture' so prevalent - I wouldn't be overly surprised if it had an (even insidious) impact on how creative forums operate, and as a result has had an impact on how much people are willing to share. Big names are being sued over 'vibes' and chord progressions - I wonder if it's much easier and safer to bicker over nuances in gear and preferences in sound worlds and productions than discuss the songwriting decisions which have landed many people in proverbial hot water. Perhaps it has put people off from sharing their ideas, or made them more defensive and less open to collaboration and critique. I don't know, it's just a bit of speculation and I can't speak for others, but felt it was worth bringing up.

None the less I don't think this phenomenon is particularly new or unique to songwriters. My experience may be relatively limited here in comparison to other posters, but none the less i've found that working and collaborating with other creatives can be a bit like herding cats. Fundamentally songwriting and lyric writing is a rather lonely job - in the same way painting or photography or whatnot is. No matter how many people in your team, your band, your squad or others you bounce ideas off and get inspired by, at a certain point it boils down to you and your skill - sat with a laptop writing lyrics, or with a guitar/piano/etc trying progressions and melodies etc. For many a bit of outside feedback is really helpful, but I can also understand the fact that a combination of intimidation and pride can often derail these sorts of conversations and forums. Nothing wrong with that though tbh, I have the impression it's a bit the nature of creatives!
Old 13th July 2020
  #159
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted f7717eb View Post
I'm an aspiring somebody currently at the nobody phase. This phase is known to last up to 92 years.
Soooo THIS is the BEST time to post some stuff.

You might be amazed at how much help you get.
Old 13th July 2020
  #160
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by CupcakeKitten View Post
Oof this thread has taken a bit of a turn.

As far as the OP's question goes though, I think there's a lot of valid points here. Yes, trust is necessary when it comes to opening up unfinished and unpublished work. Criticism is tough when you feel like you're showing a bit of your soul, and it can be a big step for many. Of course that's going to happen at one point or another, both to a 'professional' and 'non professional' audience, but that doesn't change the fact that art is often inherently personal and opening up an unfinished or imperfect version to strangers is undoubtedly an intimidating prospect.

I also have to wonder with 'suing culture' so prevalent - I wouldn't be overly surprised if it had an (even insidious) impact on how creative forums operate, and as a result has had an impact on how much people are willing to share. Big names are being sued over 'vibes' and chord progressions - I wonder if it's much easier and safer to bicker over nuances in gear and preferences in sound worlds and productions than discuss the songwriting decisions which have landed many people in proverbial hot water. Perhaps it has put people off from sharing their ideas, or made them more defensive and less open to collaboration and critique. I don't know, it's just a bit of speculation and I can't speak for others, but felt it was worth bringing up.

None the less I don't think this phenomenon is particularly new or unique to songwriters. My experience may be relatively limited here in comparison to other posters, but none the less i've found that working and collaborating with other creatives can be a bit like herding cats. Fundamentally songwriting and lyric writing is a rather lonely job - in the same way painting or photography or whatnot is. No matter how many people in your team, your band, your squad or others you bounce ideas off and get inspired by, at a certain point it boils down to you and your skill - sat with a laptop writing lyrics, or with a guitar/piano/etc trying progressions and melodies etc. For many a bit of outside feedback is really helpful, but I can also understand the fact that a combination of intimidation and pride can often derail these sorts of conversations and forums. Nothing wrong with that though tbh, I have the impression it's a bit the nature of creatives!
I'm not sure what they would need to "trust"?

That I wouldn't make fun of them? I would NEVER do that and I daresay I don't think anyone else would either.

If you don't "Trust" then you won't get the help you want. Only an idiot would make fun of someone struggling.
Old 14th July 2020
  #161
Deleted f7717eb
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by terrible.dee View Post
Soooo THIS is the BEST time to post some stuff.

You might be amazed at how much help you get.
I hear ya but naa.
I was just insulted but a poster who can't make a decision yet tells everyone in almost every forum the depth of his amazing experience, how he's run songwriting forums, his endless studio chops and is a prolific writer.

Please

I think cupcake kitten is correct and we've seen that creative can be too sensitive.

It was fun while it lasted. And there are some good people here, of course. The few name callers are just infantile and wreck it.
Onward!
Old 14th July 2020
  #162
Gear Head
 
CupcakeKitten's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by terrible.dee View Post
I'm not sure what they would need to "trust"?

That I wouldn't make fun of them? I would NEVER do that and I daresay I don't think anyone else would either.

If you don't "Trust" then you won't get the help you want. Only an idiot would make fun of someone struggling.
Don't get me wrong, I would love it to be the case where all criticism and commentary comes from a genuine and well meaning place. Unfortunately I find that to be rather optimistic. I'm also not accusing either you or anyone on this forum of deliberately tearing down someone for seeking help or advice. None the less, there's a reason why 'trolling' is a known thing, especially on the internet, and even hugely successful artists with technically good (or even outstanding) work still have to deal with those who consider tearing others down as practically a sport. When putting your work out online, you're opening yourself up to criticism from strangers. Some well meaning, others much less so. It's much easier to take that and brush it off when it's about something rather shallow or relatively unimportant, like your microphone preference rather than something which can be as deeply personal as a song or a set of lyrics. Personally i'm not particularly bothered by it - none the less I find it a rather strange situation where artists often balance both sensitivity, empathy and expression with the 'thicker skin' which has become more necessary - especially with the internet.

I'd love to see a place where that sort of expectation or trust is the default, but unfortunately I don't think you can rely on it. I totally agree that only an idiot would make fun of someone struggling, none the less my experience has shown me that there are far too many idiots - regardless of what the particular forum/topic may be about.
Old 6th August 2020
  #163
Quote:
Originally Posted by CupcakeKitten View Post
... none the less I find it a rather strange situation where artists often balance both sensitivity, empathy and expression with the 'thicker skin' which has become more necessary - especially with the internet.
Read somewhere recently a quote that perfectly encapsulates this ability to my mind, paraphrasing... Don't try to be who you are not, be yourself fully, because some people are going to hate it either way.
Old 7th August 2020
  #164
Gear Head
 
CupcakeKitten's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkbirge View Post
Read somewhere recently a quote that perfectly encapsulates this ability to my mind, paraphrasing... Don't try to be who you are not, be yourself fully, because some people are going to hate it either way.
Yeah, exactly. I feel integrity is one of the most important things as an artist. I think an audience is much more emotionally intelligent than many want to give them credit for - there's a reason why all of the people we recognise as legends are people who wrote (or contributed to) something super authentic which still resonates long after they left a chart placement or it's equivalent for it's time.

It can still be pop-ish or catchy for sure, but the fundamental of music (and all other art forms too) is communication. Communicate authentically and it will resonate with others who feel a similar way.
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