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-   -   actual good songwriting forum? (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/songwriting/1300213-actual-good-songwriting-forum.html)

jerry123 17th April 2020 06:29 PM

It is what you make it. Lurking won't help improve the things you don't like.

Be the change you want to see in the world!

theblue1 18th April 2020 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingerSongWriter (Post 14668084)
The last song I heard that moved me was A Little Bit of Everything by Dawes. Maybe I was spoiled listening to songs by Lennon, Leonard Cohen, Gordon Lightfoot, Billy Joel, John Prine, Prince, Michael Jackson, Motown, The Eagles, Beach Boys, Stones, The Who, Zeppelin, Dylan (when he could still write) Cat Stevens, Beach Boys, Randy Newman, Johnny Cash, Kris Kristofferson, Bare Naked Ladies, Lucida Williams, J Giles Band, Hendrix, Doobie Brothers, George Jones, Hank Williams, Heart, Zappa, Metalica, Earth Wind and Fire, BT Express, James Brown, Joan Jett, Grateful Dead, Captain Beefheart, Michael Jackson, Live, Paul Simon, Miles Davis, Weather Report, Steely Dan, Blue Oyster Cult, Rush, Van Halen, Reo Speedwagon etc... The last country artist that floated my boat was Hank 3 who never got airplay as far as I know. There is no artist today that comes close to all of the above IMO.

What I think is going on it that there is a glut of music and "musick" and most of if is free for the listener. Also, there are a lot of clueless non musicians making inorganic "musick".

If you have Roku go to Film Rise and check out how Steely Dan's album Aja was made. Becker and ***an dissect the album track by track. It's very enlightening.

I suppose I like any music if it was soul, honest intent, feel and motive. If music like that is being produced with those qualities today the corporate thugs who have wrecked the music industry and screwed artists wouldn't recognize good music if it flew up and bit them on their greedy butts.

Hmm... looks like your tastes were pretty broad back in the day. I'm a little surprised you haven't heard more stuff you enjoy going forward, but, then, of course, it's not like we all hear the same stuff anymore -- unless, of course, one listens to corporate radio via air or satellite.

(Me, I stopped listening to commercial radio in the late 80s when I realized just how much paylola and 'co-promotion' seemed to play a role in determining that 'the kids' would hear.)

That said, until the advent of modern streaming in the first decade of the new century, I had been getting deeper and deeper into my own, rather idiosyncratic groove. When I could finally subscribe to an on-demand service and hear what I wanted, when I wanted, without digging through 1700 albums and singles -- including music I'd always wanted but never owned as well as new music I'd never heard, I was in the proverbial hog heaven.

My stylistic tastes are broad, from roots to avant-garde jazz to orchestral music to folks like the aforementioned Capt. Beefheart (who I saw 5 times) and the Residents (who I've never seen), and these days with a BIG dose of roots country, bluegrass from the last half century plus, and a number of younger, 'Americana' bands. I don't like all or even most, by any means. But I keep listening and when I hear something that tickles my ear, I save it to my stream library or a playlist so I don't lose track.

It works for me.

theblue1 18th April 2020 03:15 AM

For fun, here's a short excerpt from a title list generated from my streaming 'favorites' playlist... you'll see some classics -- I love my old faves-- but plenty of newer stuff, too, I think. (And even more if you follow the link.)
Joy Division- She's Lost Control (2007 Remaster)
Chuck Jackson- I Keep Forgetting
Ann Peebles- I Can't Stand the Rain
Nina Simone- Pirate Jenny (Live At Carnegie Hall, New York/1964)
Carolina Chocolate Drops- Hit 'Em Up Style
Nina Simone- The House of the Rising Sun
Nina Simone- Sinnerman (Live In New York/1965)
Neil Young- Needle of Death
Roy Smeck- Kalima Walk
Kanui & Lula- My Little Grass Shack in Kealakekua
The Sweet Inspirations- Them Boys
The Sweet Inspirations- Do Right Woman, Do Right Man
Easy Star All-Stars- Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds (feat. Frankie Paul)
Dan Hicks & His Hot Licks- I Scare Myself
Toumast- Nimanghran Maanin
Japan- Wish You Were Black
The Rolling Stones- Empty Heart
Creedence Clearwater Revival- I Put A Spell On You (Live At The Woodstock Music & Art Fair / 1969)
Peter, Paul and Mary- Well, Well, Well
Kismet Original Cast - Not Since Nineveh
Oumou Sangare - Rokia Traoré- I dan soko
Sylvester Weaver- What Makes a Man Blue
Afenginn- Bordrone
Mahmoud Ahmed- Ney denun tesesh
Hacienda Brothers- Turn To Grey
David Richey- Ready For the Times to Get Better
Crooked Still- Florence
Trio Mandili- Qrizantemebi (The chrysanthemums)
Sons Of The Pioneers- Blue Prairie (Single Version)
Anna & Elizabeth- Grace of God
Gillian Welch- Black Star
Brian Wilson- It Ain’t Necessarily So
Slainte- Star of the County Down
Pernice Brothers- Clear Spot
... plus about 2000 more

theblue1 18th April 2020 05:04 PM

Beefheart, and the various ('real') Magic Bands, were, indeed, an act well apart from the mainstream, though the Captain drew heavily from the roots and blues traditions of American music. Between Van Vliet and Zappa, you might say they put the idea of California's outsider/desert boho scene on the map. Their hometown of Lancaster has been suburbanized, but that outsider mentality has taken root in the communities around Joshua Tree, California. kfhkh

With regard to getting play in different radio markets, I can only report from my own experience in the 1980s, working a release I'd put a lot of work into as co-producer. I got that release onto one local new wave station (basically through knowing and having worked in studios with key staff, aka, cronyism), it was getting heavy play at two LA area college stations. And the cool, Sunday night DJ of the 800 pound 'modern rock' station in the area at the time was playing the record regularly. And it was selling well in key college area stores. But when the band's manager tried to get it bumped out of light rotation into medium rotation at that market-leading station, he was rather unsubtly told they would need incentives. The contact person at the station then mentioned another local band who was forthcoming with such incentives (and was getting played every few hours for a while). I knew from local scuttlebut that one of the people in the band (which seldom if ever played live) was financing the band from his, let's euphemize it, entrepreneurism. He was reportedly giving key station personnel considerable, er, product. (It was the 1980s, did I mention that?) Anyhow, it was stuff like that that made me take a couple steps back.


With regard to streaming, well, since I've been paying for one or more stream subscriptions for about 15 years or so, I've had this conversation many times.

It was easy to see why people were concerned -- I was concerned -- but I'd also watched as the bottom continued dropping out of the music biz -- and the disreputable nature of a number of folks I had dealt with at labels and in a few other circumstances had already convinced me repeatedly that the music biz needed to change if musicians were ever to get a fair break.

But, look, I'll freely admit what I've said all along: if you're the kind of artist who gets repeatedly played, you will make money, as long as all the accounting is square (more on that) -- but if, on the other hand, one is the kind of artist who people buy an album by, listen a few times, and then put on the shelf... the old model was probably serving that artist as well as he could be served.

For instance, I love the Dillards album, Wheatstraw Suite. I've been listening to it, on and off, for almost a half century. Between early 2014 and late 2019 I was subscribed to Google Play Music (soon to be killed off to push users to Youtube Music, which does nothing for me) and that service had the handy feature of counting plays. The last time I checked, sometime in 2019, I think, the number of plays times the amount that GPM was paying per track (a figure derived from my own plays on that platform) equalled over FORTY DOLLARS in continuing, ongoing revenue for the license holders. The artist revenue from an original sale of that record at its release in 1967 would have netted the artists well under a half dollar for the album even by generous estimate. Up front money or long term payout -- that's the question facing us. (But if people don't play your music, that long term payout notion fizzles quickly -- without any question!) Of course, assuming one controls his own music, no one can FORCE the artist into streaming. If one wants to only sell physical product, that's certainly still an option; at/after gig sales has long been an important revenue stream for gigging bands.

(Now that last bit is something of a key to some inequities that beset streaming in the early days: unfortunately, the exploitative nature of many traditional record contracts had meant that a load of ancillary rights ended up in the hands of the labels; in the late 80s and 90s, some contracts became even nastier, looking forward to 'new' revenue streams the labels could cut away from artists; the result was that many signed to both major and minor labels found the labels taking much and sometimes all of their stream revenue.)

With regard to the industry view, obviously, streaming has strongly revitalized an industry whose revenue had been spiraling downward for many years. And that has been widely remarked on both in the industry press, but also in academia and even at the left-leaning (and once seemingly strongly anti-streaming) Guardian newspaper...

This article from Forbes (2015) takes a long look at the 'traditional' modes of exploitation of artists in the record biz: Inside The Black Box: A Deep Dive Into Music's Monetization Mystery

Guardian 2018: How streaming saved the music industry

CNN 2020: The music industry was left for dead a few years ago. Now it's booming again

Backstage Pass 2019 Why Streaming is a Good Thing for the Music Industry (an academic paper reprinted in Backstage Pass)

But , of course, as a musician and songwriter, I'd always like to see the creatives get a bigger slice of the pie -- unfortunately, as this article from Rolling Stone from just about a year ago indicates: even as streaming is delivering MORE money into artist's accounts than ever before -- there are worrisome signs that the same exploiters who set up the old line record business to serve the labels while exploiting musicians are hard at work behind the scenes to tinker and manipulate the streaming business for their own ends -- the same kind of 'black box' diversion of royalties now seems to be pervading the way the labels -- who own a large chunk of Spotify -- are moving that black box into the streaming paradigm: Streaming Platforms are Keeping More Money From Artists than Ever (and Paying Them More, Too)

bill5 19th April 2020 05:07 AM

Well I'm glad we haven't veered off topic shiee

theblue1 19th April 2020 05:53 AM

We were probably still safe when were were talking about finding new music (as well as rediscovering old)... but, of course, that's a very different process depending on how one spends his music dollars -- and that last distinction takes us not just farther afield from the OP topic (a topic, which, to be frank, kind of seemed disrespectful of our hosts, here, I have to say) but also into topics probably best covered in other forums, to the extent they need be discussed at all. Sorry.

johnny nowhere 19th April 2020 01:17 PM

I'm either living in a parallel universe, or my taste in music sucks. I've found lots of great bands recording these days. Here's one that I absolutely love.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLTVvXRTMsg

KellMartin 19th April 2020 02:26 PM

I've been to a few different art forums, and they all seem to have the same fundamental problem:

most aren't there to meet likeminded, or to listen to their stories. Most seem interested in getting you to check whatever they're "selling". I've seen a fair amount of plugs, and an even higher amount of soft plugs.

"Check out my new pictures/book/EP" and what have you.

Then, as someone previously mentioned, The Internet, or at least public forums don't lend well to the trust you'd need for a real honest conversation about art.

I'd be open to joining some sort of small discord group or something though. That might work better.

Great scenes start in some underground place where there's a few passionate souls, friends, and they're allowed to make fools of themselves and be helped along with some healthy competition.

I don't see that happening online.

theblue1 19th April 2020 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KellMartin (Post 14672335)
I've been to a few different art forums, and they all seem to have the same fundamental problem:

most aren't there to meet likeminded, or to listen to their stories. Most seem interested in getting you to check whatever they're "selling". I've seen a fair amount of plugs, and an even higher amount of soft plugs.

"Check out my new pictures/book/EP" and what have you.

Then, as someone previously mentioned, The Internet, or at least public forums don't lend well to the trust you'd need for a real honest conversation about art.

I'd be open to joining some sort of small discord group or something though. That might work better.

Great scenes start in some underground place where there's a few passionate souls, friends, and they're allowed to make fools of themselves and be helped along with some healthy competition.

I don't see that happening online.

To be certain, drive-by promo was one of the biggest nuisances I faced as a mod at the once-popular site previously mentioned. All the so-called 'viral marketing experts' tell the rubes to spam themselves everywhere -- which, of course, just alienates regular readers and makes mods hostile and a bit crazy. Those poor guys and gals just want to get heard... but...

... but maybe it would be better if they not only wanted to get heard, but wanted to get feedback -- positive and negative -- from their peers. When everyone is on board with that idea -- and is ready to receive honest, unvarnished critique on their work -- I've seen some great things happen.

Drive-by promo (and regular old spam) can be handled with some velvet roping -- if you've got a BBS/social media platform that allows that (most do from my old research).

But it can still be hard to get enough people doing critiques... as noted, everyone, quite naturally, wants to get feedback on their latest work. But writing thoughtful, relatively in-depth critique takes time and listening. I often would spend 10 to 20 minutes or more critiquing a given song. You gotta listen at least once -- but usually one needs to go back and check out different sections. And, as the mod, when someone dropped a song for comment and it would go a day or two without critique, a mod's gotta do what a mod's gotta do: get the ball rolling.

Another issue, too, that complicates online critique is the divergence of taste one so often finds in a random shuffle of songwriters. In real world song circles, there's a little more tendency to draw from similar musico-social sets, I think. Online, you get folks whose favorite act was Billy Joel mixing it up with other artists who spend their time listening to death metal... it can be hard finding common ground, sometimes.

theblue1 19th April 2020 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingerSongWriter (Post 14671748)
I appreciate your research and insight. The streaming services who survive can't lose because there already is a glut of music. I suppose they can stream classical music royalty free and if not ASCAP and BMI will get a piece of it.

There is a way for artists and listeners to get a fair shake. Make streaming like radio but instead of calculating the way the PROs did, allow the artists to embed players on their sites and pay them a fair portion of the advertising revenue. This will be fair to the advertisers and the artists because the advertiser will have an accurate accounting of the number of impressions. The ASCAP shouldn't see a penny of it. They should only get a fee from music clubs, film and mechanical sales etc..

It just seems to me that current method of streaming is open to lots of theft.

Again, as more music and "musick" it being released more and more artists, especially the new one will get lost in the sauce so the people with promotion regardless of the quality of their product will make the bucks.

There is young talent out there but the last time I watched a music awards show the best performer was IMO Bruno Mars and he sucked. I saw Taylor Swift perform with her piano for the COVID 19 special and even though her performance was mixed and processed it was mediocre at best. Elton John's piano and vocal performance was stellar. I'm not a huge Elton John fan.

I can't believe young talent is out there. I hear some young talented singer/songwriters at open mic nights but the ones who have made it have no fire or good motive. It seems to be about personality and who can act the most sluttish not that I'm anti slut but sluttiness and other gimmicks like no talent Kanye's potty mouth and his pathetic neurosis get old really fast. It just seems to me that it is hardly about their inorganic music.

There are guys like Max Carlisle demoing guitars and other gear who would have been guitar gods 30 years ago but it seems there is no market, songs or audience for their musical ability and hard work. I go to Guitar Max's channel more to hear his playing than is gear reviews. Same goes for Darrell Braun and the guys at Anderton's Music.

BTW, one the the things I like about the Andy Griffith show is when the Dillards were on. Blue grass is wonderful music that IMO should have been more in the mainstream. Same goes for modern surf rock.

Other things that are missing in modern music are use of tempos above and below 120 BPM, different time signatures, changing meter, (even Elvis did that) complex chords, interesting vocal harmony, interesting drum parts, hooks, ballsy vocals e.g. Wilson Pickett & John Fogarty and meaningful lyrics.

kfhkh

Even though I was a little kid, I was actually aware of the Dillards before they showed up on Andy Griffith -- but I didn't realize 'the Darlings' were the Dillards at first. (I had an older, hip cousin with a bluegrass band back then; he actually paid me to record his band live a couple times, using his to-me utterly cool Sony stereo portable deck. He hipped me up on that, as I recall. It was because of him and LA DJ John Davis' old 'Folk Show' that I got into bluegrass.)

My love of bluegrass, progressive BG, and the kind of stylistically expansive BG-flavored explorations on Wheatstraw -- which really blew my mind when I first heard it -- same day, in fact, that I heard Jefferson Airplane's Surrealistic Pillow (from another cousin) -- since I was used to the band's earlier, straight ahead BG -- that love of BG continues through to today; it never really left me. Even as I was into post-psychedelic/acid rock, progressive and 70s avant-garde, I still went to a lot of banjo and fiddle contests, hung out with flat-pickers and banjo pickers (including Pat Cloud, who was a friend of a friend).


And THAT all brings me around to some of today's BG and roots country-flavored bands like Crooked Still, Bela Fleck and Abigail Washburn, Uncle Earl, Mama's Broke, the Duhks, Wailin' Jennys, Gillian Welch and Dave Rawlings, Carolina Chocolate Drops, as well as more established, better known artists like David Grisman, Allison Krause, Union Station, Nickel Creek -- and more. And more.

KellMartin 19th April 2020 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theblue1 (Post 14672591)
To be certain, drive-by promo was one of the biggest nuisances I faced as a mod at the once-popular site previously mentioned. All the so-called 'viral marketing experts' tell the rubes to spam themselves everywhere -- which, of course, just alienates regular readers and makes mods hostile and a bit crazy. Those poor guys and gals just want to get heard... but...

... but maybe it would be better if they not only wanted to get heard, but wanted to get feedback -- positive and negative -- from their peers. When everyone is on board with that idea -- and is ready to receive honest, unvarnished critique on their work -- I've seen some great things happen.

Drive-by promo (and regular old spam) can be handled with some velvet roping -- if you've got a BBS/social media platform that allows that (most do from my old research).

But it can still be hard to get enough people doing critiques... as noted, everyone, quite naturally, wants to get feedback on their latest work. But writing thoughtful, relatively in-depth critique takes time and listening. I often would spend 10 to 20 minutes or more critiquing a given song. You gotta listen at least once -- but usually one needs to go back and check out different sections. And, as the mod, when someone dropped a song for comment and it would go a day or two without critique, a mod's gotta do what a mod's gotta do: get the ball rolling.

Another issue, too, that complicates online critique is the divergence of taste one so often finds in a random shuffle of songwriters. In real world song circles, there's a little more tendency to draw from similar musico-social sets, I think. Online, you get folks whose favorite act was Billy Joel mixing it up with other artists who spend their time listening to death metal... it can be hard finding common ground, sometimes.

I wasn't much better with the spam button back in the days. I shouldn't speak.

All great points, theblue1. Not sure what the remedy for all this would be though.

Has anyone here had any experience with different writers groups? That is: messenger, discord, or skype. audio, video, etc. Maybe some info on the pros and cons.

theblue1 19th April 2020 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KellMartin (Post 14672675)
I wasn't much better with the spam button back in the days. I shouldn't speak.

All great points, theblue1. Not sure what the remedy for all this would be though.

Has anyone here had any experience with different writers groups? That is: messenger, discord, or skype. audio, video, etc. Maybe some info on the pros and cons.

I'm also interested in the bolded questions...

The 'ironic' thing is that, outside of writing classes back in college, and my tenure as a songwriting forum mod, the only songwriting group I've been a part of met about 3 times -- we were all young(er) and pursuing our different musical ventures. It was small, but the few meetings we had were pretty productive. But it was hard to schedule. That's one of the nice things about 'asynchronous' dialog venues like forums... you can sneak in in the middle of the night and still participate 'fully.'

FWIW, the couple of online songwriting collabs I've been part of mostly used 'old fashioned' communication media -- email and file transfer.

theblue1 21st April 2020 06:48 PM

Here's a cross-generational country collab...


afterhunting 26th April 2020 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theblue1 (Post 14667575)
Gee... I'm almost 70 and I hear a lot of great music that's new to me -- as well as older stuff I've never had a chance to get to know.

And it's not like I haven't been into music for a long time. I have more than 1200 LPs, a couple hundred singles and 78s, well over 500 albums on CD... but the 'celestial jukebox' era has allowed me to explore music I couldn't find or never got around to buying or simply hadn't come across. And I'm not really into the 'popular' stuff -- I wasn't into mainstream rock and pop, I never liked 'modern' country, don't like new age jazz, tired of electronica pop decades ago. But I still find loads of interesting music, including plenty that's fresh to me. For me, it's been about keeping my ears open -- and having good sources to draw from. In that regard, the modern distribution paradigm has been a heavensent, helping me to salvage and enjoy all-but-forgotten gems from both the long ago and even the recent past...

Totally agree with this man.

If people have the opinion that all good music has to have been in the past then they will never find all the brilliant new music being made. There's so much music being made that isn't popular chart stuff (not all that popular stuff is bad either).

There is amazing music from decades gone and there is just as excellent music being made today and there will be tomorrow. Keep your ears open - as soon as "it was better in my day" sets in, then you've given up.

johnorionsound 1st May 2020 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afterhunting (Post 14689563)
Totally agree with this man.

If people have the opinion that all good music has to have been in the past then they will never find all the brilliant new music being made. There's so much music being made that isn't popular chart stuff (not all that popular stuff is bad either).

There is amazing music from decades gone and there is just as excellent music being made today and there will be tomorrow. Keep your ears open - as soon as "it was better in my day" sets in, then you've given up.

Yeah @ theblue1 's quote last page applies to music too.

I say this to people about LA too (you get such diverse opinions about the city). The city offers pretty much everything. You find what you seek, law of attraction. The opinion tends to be a reflection of the opinion-giver's energy more than anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theblue1 (Post 14559388)
:heh: :heh: :heh:



A wise man is sitting outside the gated walls of a great city. A traveler approaches. "Tell me, wise man, what kind of people will I find here?"

"What kind of of people did you find in the city whence you come?" asked the wise man.

"Good and kind. Generous and friendly."

"You will find the same, here, traveler."


Later that same day, another traveler approached the wise man.

"Wise man -- what sorts of men and women live in yon city?"

"What sorts of people did you find in the city you are coming from?"

"Fools and dolts, cheats and swindlers. A pack of liars."

"Sadly, my friend, you will find the same here."


theblue1 2nd May 2020 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnorionsound (Post 14702534)
Yeah @ theblue1 's quote last page applies to music too.

[...]

The appreciation of music often benefits from a certain trust and an open spirit on the part of the listener, too, as you note. kfhkh

jdanzig 4th May 2020 10:46 PM

the guy who said something about world culture right now. IDK WTF he meant, but he was right.

johnny nowhere 4th May 2020 11:58 PM

Leland's comments pretty much sum up what's wrong with the music bidness these days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvibpLT-la0

Dr. Mordo 5th May 2020 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theblue1 (Post 14559388)
:heh: :heh: :heh:



A wise man is sitting outside the gated walls of a great city. A traveler approaches. "Tell me, wise man, what kind of people will I find here?"

"What kind of of people did you find in the city whence you come?" asked the wise man.

"Good and kind. Generous and friendly."

"You will find the same, here, traveler."


Later that same day, another traveler approached the wise man.

"Wise man -- what sorts of men and women live in yon city?"

"What sorts of people did you find in the city you are coming from?"

"Fools and dolts, cheats and swindlers. A pack of liars."

"Sadly, my friend, you will find the same here."

I strongly disagree with this post. Gearslutz has 5-6 posters who are combative and obnoxious all the time, but because they've been around a long time its tolerated. Especially the guitar forum - that is simply one of the most toxic music forums I have found. The other guitar forums I post in have a much more fraternal and less nasty vibe.

This songwriting forum has never struck me as toxic or abusive, but it is kind of slow. I agree with others that if you want feedback, find some folks you respect and bounce your ideas off of them.

This is purely a guess, but I suspect many folks interested in modern pop songwriting are not really interested in the more theoretical aspects of songwriting often addressed in this forum. Modern pop is so stripped down and simplified that I think people chasing that sound are more interested in recipes for quick success than in theory or the evolution of song over the last couple hundred years. Maybe I'm wrong, the OP will have to clarify. Or not.

theblue1 5th May 2020 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Mordo (Post 14710621)
I strongly disagree with this post. Gearslutz has 5-6 posters who are combative and obnoxious all the time, but because they've been around a long time its tolerated. Especially the guitar forum - that is simply one of the most toxic music forums I have found. The other guitar forums I post in have a much more fraternal and less nasty vibe.

This songwriting forum has never struck me as toxic or abusive, but it is kind of slow. I agree with others that if you want feedback, find some folks you respect and bounce your ideas off of them.

This is purely a guess, but I suspect many folks interested in modern pop songwriting are not really interested in the more theoretical aspects of songwriting often addressed in this forum. Modern pop is so stripped down and simplified that I think people chasing that sound are more interested in recipes for quick success than in theory or the evolution of song over the last couple hundred years. Maybe I'm wrong, the OP will have to clarify. Or not.

https://i.imgur.com/1MgFKSes.png

Well, it's not offered as scientific evidence or anything. It's a parable, a fable.

But, I can tell you, at least from my personal experience with my own once quite negative attitudes and mood issues, that a dark and cynical approach to life tends to 'reward' the holder with reinforcement of those attitudes.

At a certain point, my cynicism and negative attitude toward my fellow humans had painted me into a corner where I felt like the entire world was a cold, inhospitable place... and only getting worse. It was a certain kind of rock bottom. But, you know what they say, no place to go but up -- unless you just give up. I was too driven to give up so I had to find a new way to approach life.

It took a long time to turn things around, life can still be very rocky, very sad at times, but, you know what, I'm not HATING life, I'm taking pleasure in many small and not so small things, and -- when I stop and really think about things -- I'm deeply thankful, despite having had some serious life problems and sorrows.

But, you know, feel free to 'disagree.'

;)

Dr. Mordo 5th May 2020 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theblue1 (Post 14711836)
https://i.imgur.com/1MgFKSes.png

Well, it's not offered as scientific evidence or anything. It's a parable, a fable.

But, I can tell you, at least from my personal experience with my own once quite negative attitudes and mood issues, that a dark and cynical approach to life tends to 'reward' the holder with reinforcement of those attitudes.

At a certain point, my cynicism and negative attitude toward my fellow humans had painted me into a corner where I felt like the entire world was a cold, inhospitable place... and only getting worse. It was a certain kind of rock bottom. But, you know what they say, no place to go but up -- unless you just give up. I was too driven to give up so I had to find a new way to approach life.

It took a long time to turn things around, life can still be very rocky, very sad at times, but, you know what, I'm not HATING life, I'm taking pleasure in many small and not so small things, and -- when I stop and really think about things -- I'm deeply thankful, despite having had some serious life problems and sorrows.

But, you know, feel free to 'disagree.'

;)

FWIW, I completely agree with this post.

Your story reminds me of meeting someone a few years back who had moved to a bunch of different cities and hated them all. Something tells me she's bringing the problem with her...

That said, and this is not exactly a groundbreaking idea, some people use the anonymity of the interwebs to act like a-holes. No matter what your attitude is they want to dominate, and if the mods allow it, they will.

clump 5th May 2020 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Mordo (Post 14710621)

This songwriting forum has never struck me as toxic or abusive, but it is kind of slow. I agree with others that if you want feedback, find some folks you respect and bounce your ideas off of them.

The 'Post your rough demos' thread has recently been locked due to constant, and sometimes extremely toxic, bickering...I wouldn't be surprised if it stays locked permanently.

None of the posts have been deleted, so the descent into toxicity is still viewable...perhaps to enable members to make their own minds up regarding who was responsible for it's closure, or perhaps to serve as a warning to 'toxic posters'.

Of course everybody has gone over to 'Post your finished demos' now, so it's only a matter of time before it all kicks off again over there.

theblue1 5th May 2020 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Mordo (Post 14712478)
FWIW, I completely agree with this post.

Your story reminds me of meeting someone a few years back who had moved to a bunch of different cities and hated them all. Something tells me she's bringing the problem with her...

That said, and this is not exactly a groundbreaking idea, some people use the anonymity of the interwebs to act like a-holes. No matter what your attitude is they want to dominate, and if the mods allow it, they will.

For. Sure. ;)


I've been a mod. It is, as they say, a generally thankless task.


Maybe my borrowed parable seems a bit 'goody two shoes' -- so, just for balance, here's my breakdown on humanity...

https://www.tkmajor.com/tk/tom-majors-rule-of-thirds/

Dr. Mordo 5th May 2020 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clump (Post 14712723)
The 'Post your rough demos' thread has recently been locked due to constant, and sometimes extremely toxic, bickering...I wouldn't be surprised if it stays locked permanently.

None of the posts have been deleted, so the descent into toxicity is still viewable...perhaps to enable members to make their own minds up regarding who was responsible for it's closure, or perhaps to serve as a warning to 'toxic posters'.

Of course everybody has gone over to 'Post your finished demos' now, so it's only a matter of time before it all kicks off again over there.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

johnny nowhere 6th May 2020 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Mordo (Post 14712478)
FWIW, I completely agree with this post.

Your story reminds me of meeting someone a few years back who had moved to a bunch of different cities and hated them all. Something tells me she's bringing the problem with her...

That said, and this is not exactly a groundbreaking idea, some people use the anonymity of the interwebs to act like a-holes. No matter what your attitude is they want to dominate, and if the mods allow it, they will.

I honestly think that there are some people in this world who are not happy unless they're miserable. This mindset appears pervasive across both sexes, all races, age groups, and income levels.

People will readily sacrifice any form of pleasure or vice, but they simply will not sacrifice their suffering. If you ask me, life's too freaking short for such nonsense.

Seattle 6th May 2020 06:49 AM

Quote:

Your story reminds me of meeting someone a few years back who had moved to a bunch of different cities and hated them all. Something tells me she's bringing the problem with her...
I feel a song coming...

You can travel the world, it's there wherever you go
The problem is within you, how sad that you will never know