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-   -   I wrote a hit song but need to know (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/songwriting/1294158-i-wrote-hit-song-but-need-know.html)

Pindrive 31st January 2020 04:37 PM

Was it Quincy Jones who said His job as a producer was to kill artists babies? I've written a lot of hits. At least "I" think so. Just ask me....

thehightenor 5th February 2020 08:54 AM

Personally, I think writing a "hit " song is the easy part, I mean really easy!

The hard to impossible part is getting it to the ears of millions of people in order for it to become a "hit" song.

Making a jar of tasty jam is easy, getting it onto the shelves of a national supermarket is the challenge.

I shall listen out on the radio for your song, at least tell us what it's called?

boombapdame 5th February 2020 05:59 PM

Unless @ kittyfranco you are a pro w/money from billionaires loaned to you and your ass is on the line, write from your soul and be satisfied.

hello people 5th February 2020 06:31 PM

Sage advice

kfhkh

AfterViewer 5th February 2020 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kittyfranco (Post 14442306)
if it has already been written. Kind of like Paul dreaming Yesterday. He had to ask around. Could have sworn it was something he heard.

Is there an online algorithm to test a melody to see if it has been dreamed up and recorded already?

yingyang:deth:yingyang Writing a song that you think could be a "hit" is a common phenomenon in today's songwriters menagerie of wishfulthinkers. Unless you are well-connected to the machine and well-oiled for producing "hits' to date you should take a few steps back and check the reality zone listings for a slot in the mix. Standing room only.

Frankie Mumbles 5th February 2020 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharp11 (Post 14444093)
That's right; and what I always tell my students is if you think your song is worth millions of $, you should be happy to have the problem of being sued and sharing royalties on it. ;)

100%. A lawsuit will just elevate a profile.

ccg 5th February 2020 11:59 PM

Very odd thread to me. If you aren't stealing it and you don't immediately realize you just came up with the Satisfaction riff in a different key then you are probably fine.

Desire Inspires 6th February 2020 03:56 PM

http://m.quickmeme.com/img/64/646835...1bb163798e.jpg

SingerSongWriter 7th February 2020 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theblue1 (Post 14462067)
That's pretty interesting. I'm interested in any particulars you feel like sharing.

I've run into lots of, let's call them, unauthorized postings of recorded songs under the original artist's name, almost all of it in nations that don't (much) enforce copyright. (One can imagine their thinking on leaving the original artist's name: if anyone is searching for a song by title, they're probably looking for a specific tune; even more likely, they may be searching for favorite artists, in which case, the pirate site would definitely want to use the true artist's name.) I've found my own recordings (and I'm nobody ;) ) illicitly hosted 'around the world,' but under my own name. It's definitely something that has happened and no doubt continues to happen.

But I've always been at least a little surprised I haven't run into more people whose songs have been have been fully stolen (either the song, itself, or a recording thereof) and credit taken by the thief.

I've been discussing songwriting online since the 1990s (or before, since I participated in the dial up BB scene in the 80s) and even moderated a songwriting forum on (a different) once-busy musician website for seven years and, I have to say that the overwhelming majority of the song-theft claims I've heard/read over the years have been regarding songs 'stolen' by ex-music partners/bandmates/co-writers and so on -- people who presumably felt they'd contributed to the song enough to claim it or part of it.


So... did they steal your lyrics, your music, and/or your recording? And did they relabel it with another artist's name?

Thanks in advance for any info you want to share, as I want to be as accurate as possible when I talk about this stuff; your experience definitely counts.

The internet is the Wild Wild West. Anyone can steal your music, stream it and sell it of they are in some jerk water country no matter what you to to protect it or so it seems. Even the so called legit services don't seem to be adequately regulated. There's a good Joe Rogan episode where he and Steven Tyler discuss the theft by the streaming services and concert promoters.

What happened to me is I put an EDM thing on soundcloud. It was something I did with loops. I did it as a spoof and to show my grandson how easy it is to do. Some thief calling himself P-Monie Records released 2 versions of it and called it Bandero Deep. One had some lame rap and the other was instrumental.

It is interesting that if someone steal your car they go to prison but they can steal your work and get away with it. The only way I can think to slow this down and get artists compensated is to have all streaming driven by advertising and give the artist a fair split. Make it free to upload after a small fee and allow artists to promote and embed players on their site and blogs. The listener gets "free" music, the advertisers get a fair shake and the streaming service gets rich without being slimy. It would force the industry to compete and promote. Get rid of the PROs or change how the PROs operate. The fact that the ASCAP and BMI own Happy Birthday and the Star Spangled Banner tells me that they have no honor. The fact that artists have been screwed since the beginning of recorded music tells me that the industry should be artist owned.

Artists should have full control of their music rights and licencing. Known thieves should be black balled and others industry gangsters like the ones at Tunecore should be arrested. BTW I got copyright strikes on a video that only contained the sound of ocean waves.

I don't know what to do about the manipulation of stats that goes on on Youtube.

My other pet peeve is the fact that music services that come with cable, satellite, XM etc... isn't playing modern instrumental surf music.

Rant over.

Dave Polich 16th February 2020 11:41 PM

No one ever writes a hit song. People write
songs that BECOME hits.

If you’re asking whether you subconsciously
stole someone else’s hit, the answer is no.
Songwriters who want success these days
know the name of the game is to outright
steal things from past hit songs, and
combine and twist them just enough that
no one will sue them. Sometimes, if you’re
writing songs for an artist like Katy Perry,
you’ll get sued by some asshole claiming you
stole their song which was beats and sounds
stolen from somebody else who stole it from
somebody else. In other words, steal away,
just don’t get caught.

If you hear ten songs on a country station
that sound “vaguely” like past hits, it’s because
the songwriters did steal bits from past hits.

bgood 17th February 2020 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr Weiss (Post 14450546)
It makes sense that somehow/someway, every tune that I ever heard is imprinted in my brain.
Still, it does not mean that I consciously or subconsciously tap into this amalgam of music memories when composing.

Give me some facts to the contrary.


~HW

You realize, of course, there are only 12 notes that a man can play, right?*

But seriously, you’re kidding right or are you genuinely under the impression that your creativity stands alone in the world of music? Because if it actually does, it usually means nobody wants to hear it

*Level Up because I even got a Beastie Boys lyric in there, son

bgood 17th February 2020 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Polich (Post 14536920)
No one ever writes a hit song. People write
songs that BECOME hits.

If you’re asking whether you subconsciously
stole someone else’s hit, the answer is no.
Songwriters who want success these days
know the name of the game is to outright
steal things from past hit songs, and
combine and twist them just enough that
no one will sue them. Sometimes, if you’re
writing songs for an artist like Katy Perry,
you’ll get sued by some asshole claiming you
stole their song which was beats and sounds
stolen from somebody else who stole it from
somebody else. In other words, steal away,
just don’t get caught.

If you hear ten songs on a country station
that sound “vaguely” like past hits, it’s because
the songwriters did steal bits from past hits.

This is a big steaming gumbo pot of crazy... what writing rooms have you been popping into?!

bgood 17th February 2020 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehightenor (Post 14512429)
Personally, I think writing a "hit " song is the easy part, I mean really easy!

The hard to impossible part is getting it to the ears of millions of people in order for it to become a "hit" song.

Making a jar of tasty jam is easy, getting it onto the shelves of a national supermarket is the challenge.

I shall listen out on the radio for your song, at least tell us what it's called?

Everybody thinks their mom’s a great cook, too.

Your whole premise is off... a hit means a success... so, what you’re saying makes absolutely no sense whatsoever

hello people 17th February 2020 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehightenor (Post 14512429)
Personally, I think writing a "hit " song is the easy part, I mean really easy!

The hard to impossible part is getting it to the ears of millions of people in order for it to become a "hit" song.

Making a jar of tasty jam is easy, getting it onto the shelves of a national supermarket is the challenge.

I shall listen out on the radio for your song, at least tell us what it's called?

I'll wait here. You go write one and when you're finished post it here.

kfhkh

thehightenor 17th February 2020 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hello people (Post 14537430)
I'll wait here. You go write one and when you're finished post it here.

kfhkh

You totally missed my point :)

I do understand what your saying in your post, we just have a very different perspective

thehightenor 17th February 2020 09:43 AM

If u
Quote:

Originally Posted by bgood (Post 14537420)
Everybody thinks their mom’s a great cook, too.

Your whole premise is off... a hit means a success... so, what you’re saying makes absolutely no sense whatsoever

No exactly, we're actually saying the same thing.

I just don't feel writing the music per say is the difficult part.

Being Bowie to sing it or having your unique band all over the air ways .... that's the difficult part.

I apologise if that sounds cynical.

As Spielberg said, to have hit films, first you've gotta make films.

I do understand what you're saying in you post, I agree with your point. I was saying something similar just from a different perspective.

It's not just writing Hero's by David Bowie, the musical elements of Hero's are rudimentary, it's being David Bowie to deliver it. 99% of singers couldn't of made that song a hit song. Bowie made it a hit song, the song didn't make Bowie into a hit.

Though I can see this could get complex and into a very long winded debate on "you can't seperate the artist from their material" .... the great artists are so unique and stylised.

Take, Down Town Train, by Tom Waites. Sit and play it at the piano, there's nothing there, a few chordal melody notes a few passing tones over essentially a three chord trick (ish) harmony, so rudimentary, if I did a cover and I'm a good singer (folk come up to me at gigs and say you have a great voice mate) it would sound "boring" because whilst I can sing in tune and have a "nice" tone, I'm definately not a great Artist (unfortunately)

Tom Waites (and to some degree Rod Stewart) makes it into magic imho.

I tell all the young wannabe musicians I meet, the same I would tell to my 16 year old self, if you want to be truly successful in music become unique and very, very stylised, develop a fantastic grain a unique voice (in every way) then start worrying about your note selections.

I got It completely the wrong way around and became the musicians musican, without becoming very stylised or developing a unique grain ... ah the notes, who cares about the notes!

Some singers/artists could have a hit singing the telephone directory. I think that's were I came in :)

Dave Polich 20th February 2020 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgood (Post 14537416)
This is a big steaming gumbo pot of crazy... what writing rooms have you been popping into?!

Lol. You know, I posted my reply just to piss you
off.

I have written and produced two country albums,
co-wrote and produced two EDM albums, two
indie alternative folk records, an industrial
metal pop record, a four song alt pop CD,
and working on my own compilation album
right now. Here is a link to the EDM artist
whose records I produced:
http://www.samanthanewark.com

Here is the country artist whose two records
I wrote and produced:
http://www.shannonrae.com

Here’s the singer-songwriter whose EP I produced.
I also co-produced the last song on his
current album:
http://www.markcote.com

I also am a synthesist and keyboard tech for
major artists. More info on me here:
http://www.davepolich.com

While always striving to write a better song,
I do know plenty about songwriting. If
you knew enough about it you’d know that
talent imitates, genius steals. There is
nothing in the top 20 of any genre that
doesn’t include a hefty amount of outright
stealing. You can be happy just creating
art for art’s sake. If you want your song
to be covered by a major artist, or gain traction
on the charts, you steal..not only
chords and melodies, but production. Because
that’s what it is..pop music.

bgood 20th February 2020 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Polich (Post 14543155)
Lol. You know, I posted my reply just to piss you
off.

I have written and produced two country albums,
co-wrote and produced two EDM albums, two
indie alternative folk records, an industrial
metal pop record, a four song alt pop CD,
and working on my own compilation album
right now. Here is a link to the EDM artist
whose records I produced:
http://www.samanthanewark.com

Here is the country artist whose two records
I wrote and produced:
http://www.shannonrae.com

Here’s the singer-songwriter whose EP I produced.
I also co-produced the last song on his
current album:
http://www.markcote.com

I also am a synthesist and keyboard tech for
major artists. More info on me here:
http://www.davepolich.com

While always striving to write a better song,
I do know plenty about songwriting. If
you knew enough about it you’d know that
talent imitates, genius steals. There is
nothing in the top 20 of any genre that
doesn’t include a hefty amount of outright
stealing. You can be happy just creating
art for art’s sake. If you want your song
to be covered by a major artist, or gain traction
on the charts, you steal..not only
chords and melodies, but production. Because
that’s what it is..pop music.

You gotta be a bit more specific when you make such comments... EDM, top 40, new country, trap/rap? Sure, a good deal of that sounds similar... always has. Straight up Stealing? I dunno about that, Dave. If that’s your bag, cool. But, I suspect that you’re being a smart a$$

mattpyter 20th February 2020 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Polich (Post 14543155)
I do know plenty about songwriting. If
you knew enough about it you’d know that talent imitates, genius steals.

No. If you knew anything about that quote, you'd realize that Stravinsky was being a piece of sh1t when confronted about stealing Debussy's harmonic building blocks from La Mer.

But they are both dead now. Stop using dead mens stories for your own personal gain.

Dave Polich 20th February 2020 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgood (Post 14543304)
You gotta be a bit more specific when you make such comments... EDM, top 40, new country, trap/rap? Sure, a good deal of that sounds similar... always has. Straight up Stealing? I dunno about that, Dave. If that’s your bag, cool. But, I suspect that you’re being a smart a$$

Here’s what happens when a team of producer
writers gets together to develop a track.
Usually a discussion first about a demo of
the song one of them made, using royalty-free
beats and musical phrases available from
any number of content sites like Loopmasters or
the Loop Loft. Or its a track made with
virtual instruments from scratch. Or in the case
of country, its a simple guitar bass drums keys
and scratch vocal demo.

Everyone starts throwing out ideas, it
doesn’t take long before someone says
why dont we take that chorus and base it more
on the hit song it sounds like. Production
elements start getting added. Maybe it
will get changed from guitar driven to
some synth arpeggio driving it. Someone
says if we’re gonna use synth, it kinda
reminds me of Duran Duran, so why don’t
we add that vibe? And so on and so forth.

Here is a perfect example. Florida Georgia Line’s
song “Confession”. If you ignore the vocal,
the music sounds like a rip from U2’s “With or
Without You” with the synth pads and
arpeggiated guitars. The boys in the band
wanted to do “their” version of a U2 song,
they added banjo and strummed 12-string
guitars to offset the impression that they
sourced their song from an existing hit
in another genre.

These days, “stealing” is actually borrowing
production ideas because production IS
the song. Before the singer lays down a
vocal, they have to hear the whole
complete produced track so they can
be like “cool, that’s catchy” and get excited.
Transitions between verses and choruses
have to be announced musically. The song
has to reel the listener in from the very
first bar with something intriguing and
catchy. Usually, you do that by borrowing
and “adjusting” elements from previous
hits that sound like your track. Choruses
have to explode so you go from six
musical elements to twenty, everything
doubled, extra layers, even noise (yes, noise)
is added in, all to announce “here’s the damn
chorus”.

Katy Perry got sued for stealing a loop and
a synth phrase that the plaintiffs got off
a royalty free loop site. This is what is
going on now. It’s how everyone does it.
They are lying if they say they are not.
I’ve been to plenty of sessions like this.

At the superstar level, the likelihood of
making big sums of money is enormous
and the stakes are high. The track creators
can’t afford to deliver a dud. So they
borrow and steal from what has already
been successful. The movie industry is
no different. This has nothing to do with
ethics. The entertainment industry has
no ethics.

bgood 20th February 2020 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Polich (Post 14544158)
Here’s what happens when a team of producer
writers gets together to develop a track.
Usually a discussion first about a demo of
the song one of them made, using royalty-free
beats and musical phrases available from
any number of content sites like Loopmasters or
the Loop Loft. Or its a track made with
virtual instruments from scratch. Or in the case
of country, its a simple guitar bass drums keys
and scratch vocal demo.

Everyone starts throwing out ideas, it
doesn’t take long before someone says
why dont we take that chorus and base it more
on the hit song it sounds like. Production
elements start getting added. Maybe it
will get changed from guitar driven to
some synth arpeggio driving it. Someone
says if we’re gonna use synth, it kinda
reminds me of Duran Duran, so why don’t
we add that vibe? And so on and so forth.

Here is a perfect example. Florida Georgia Line’s
song “Confession”. If you ignore the vocal,
the music sounds like a rip from U2’s “With or
Without You” with the synth pads and
arpeggiated guitars. The boys in the band
wanted to do “their” version of a U2 song,
they added banjo and strummed 12-string
guitars to offset the impression that they
sourced their song from an existing hit
in another genre.

These days, “stealing” is actually borrowing
production ideas because production IS
the song. Before the singer lays down a
vocal, they have to hear the whole
complete produced track so they can
be like “cool, that’s catchy” and get excited.
Transitions between verses and choruses
have to be announced musically. The song
has to reel the listener in from the very
first bar with something intriguing and
catchy. Usually, you do that by borrowing
and “adjusting” elements from previous
hits that sound like your track. Choruses
have to explode so you go from six
musical elements to twenty, everything
doubled, extra layers, even noise (yes, noise)
is added in, all to announce “here’s the damn
chorus”.

Katy Perry got sued for stealing a loop and
a synth phrase that the plaintiffs got off
a royalty free loop site. This is what is
going on now. It’s how everyone does it.
They are lying if they say they are not.
I’ve been to plenty of sessions like this.

At the superstar level, the likelihood of
making big sums of money is enormous
and the stakes are high. The track creators
can’t afford to deliver a dud. So they
borrow and steal from what has already
been successful. The movie industry is
no different. This has nothing to do with
ethics. The entertainment industry has
no ethics.

Dave,

None of that is particularly “inside baseball” intel. I’ve been in plenty of those sessions, too. Sure, “I want a Cars synth vibe under the prechorus” or “I want this tune to have a Chris Stapleton vibe”... that’s nothing new. But that’s not stealing, man

But, that’s different than: “let’s take this lyric from Let’s Get it On and mix it with that melody from Happy“

Yes, construction kits, loop libraries... I mean, first of all, why? But second, you can be sued by anybody when you’re famous... winning is something to else (through appeal). Besides, artists of a certain stature should have machination in place to make sure things like this are cleared...

Young “songwriter/producers” have jacked stuff from the record crate or internet for sure... and some of that stuff ends up on a major release.

I get your general “you didn’t build this” point” but I just think you’re mixing your metaphors

kittyfranco 25th February 2020 08:29 PM

**** it, Ill just share it. I like the discussion. Not recorded well at all, sorry. Could have been a hit I think in the early 90's
One of many melodies Ive written, but Im ok with this one getting out there

https://soundcloud.com/sleestack808/melodyimade

mattpyter 25th February 2020 09:40 PM

It is a good intro - 10 seconds in, the drummer could start in with a high hat pattern for a few bars, ultimately crashing into a guitar chord that resolves a fifth down around 30 seconds (your idea loops too long on its own, it needs a few bars of a variation or other idea before returning to that same riff that starts the song).

You need to find a drummer to jam with - don't try to write your own drum parts; you'd be surprised how someone else can subconsciously influence you to create more material on the spot in less time than you originally anticipated.

Or try free recording ideas for 20 minutes to a drum beat or click track in the same BPM as this riff and edit it down to 4 minutes or so.

It really is a catchy guitar lead that a singer or solo instrumental part could have fun with - but it does need development in different directions and variations for it to be a hit; you have one riff, now use it to make 50 similar riffs using the same scale and wittle it down to the best 12 for short attention spans/pop listeners like us.

TRSC 25th February 2020 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattpyter (Post 14554342)
; you have one riff, now use it to make 50 similar riffs using the same scale and wittle it down to the best 12 for short attention spans/pop listeners like us.

Thanks Mutt Lange!:lol:

death 25th February 2020 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kittyfranco (Post 14554410)
The only, Only reason I shared it is because I won't use it, It doesn't go with my style of music. Ive got other stuff I will keep to myself. But I am super curious about ideas being posted out there right now. The willingness of people to just show it all and the limbo the music world is in. A very sad limbo in my opinion

what a cuck.....

thehightenor 26th February 2020 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Polich (Post 14543155)
Lol. You know, I posted my reply just to piss you
off.

I have written and produced two country albums,
co-wrote and produced two EDM albums, two
indie alternative folk records, an industrial
metal pop record, a four song alt pop CD,
and working on my own compilation album
right now. Here is a link to the EDM artist
whose records I produced:
http://www.samanthanewark.com

Here is the country artist whose two records
I wrote and produced:
http://www.shannonrae.com

Here’s the singer-songwriter whose EP I produced.
I also co-produced the last song on his
current album:
http://www.markcote.com

I also am a synthesist and keyboard tech for
major artists. More info on me here:
http://www.davepolich.com

While always striving to write a better song,
I do know plenty about songwriting. If
you knew enough about it you’d know that
talent imitates, genius steals. There is
nothing in the top 20 of any genre that
doesn’t include a hefty amount of outright
stealing. You can be happy just creating
art for art’s sake. If you want your song
to be covered by a major artist, or gain traction
on the charts, you steal..not only
chords and melodies, but production. Because
that’s what it is..pop music.

Good artists have influences.
Great artists steal.

Pablo Picasso

mattpyter 27th February 2020 11:19 PM

All artists are worthless unless they meet and know people that can help them launder money, like Pablo Picasso. :)

Herr Weiss 29th February 2020 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgood (Post 14537415)
You realize, of course, there are only 12 notes that a man can play, right?*

But seriously, you’re kidding right or are you genuinely under the impression that your creativity stands alone in the world of music? Because if it actually does, it usually means nobody wants to hear it

*Level Up because I even got a Beastie Boys lyric in there, son

Nonsense!


You're exactly the reason some people do not like this Songwriting forum.


....Outdated primitive ideas....& all.

Good Day,
~HW

henryrobinett 29th February 2020 11:56 AM

WHATEVER YOU DO don’t play it here. You’ll get some help but you’ll also get some snide hurtful comments.

kittyfranco 29th February 2020 08:40 PM

too late!