The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
SONGLAND (on NBC) what are your personal thoughts on this new TV show?
Old 6th September 2019
  #31
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Humans are sexual beings, no doubt, and there's objectification of both men and women.

However, to not realize in this patriarchal world which way the pendulum swings as far as which gender is more so...well, it's like you've got blinders on.
It’s just observably not the case in music right now. Does no good to shoehorn issues like this.

An objective look at the women in the music biz should lead to a sense of optimism for women (as far as looks), as model-esque attractiveness doesn’t seem to matter much at all right now. The songs are coming first, and then it’s about the creative and unique style of the person behind the music.
Old 6th September 2019
  #32
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
It’s just observably not the case in music right now. Does no good to shoehorn issues like this.

An objective look at the women in the music biz should lead to a sense of optimism for women (as far as looks), as model-esque attractiveness doesn’t seem to matter much at all right now. The songs are coming first, and then it’s about the creative and unique style of the person behind the music.
The whole boy-band phenomenon gives the lie to this "woke" nonsense being peddled by our esteemed colleague. Men have typically been far more objectified than women in the music industry. It's not even a contest.
Old 6th September 2019
  #33
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
The whole boy-band phenomenon gives the lie to this "woke" nonsense being peddled by our esteemed colleague. Men have typically been far more objectified than women in the music industry. It's not even a contest.
The highest level of lustiness I see on social media right now in relation to the music scene, by far, is young girls towards the k-pop guys. “So and so K Pop guy’s ass” type stuff trends frequently.
Old 6th September 2019
  #34
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
The highest level of lustiness I see on social media right now in relation to the music scene, by far, is young girls towards the k-pop guys. “So and so K Pop guy’s ass” type stuff trends frequently.
The fetishization and objectification in K-pop is at entirely different levels.

Whereas you can have over the top Beatle-esque bubble gum adoration the boy bands enjoy, there is pervasive "Sailor Moon" type school girl depiction with the girl groups that is very sexual in nature, and reeks with undertones of pedophilia.

The thing is, until very recently in modern human civilization, women have had virtually no power, virtually no autonomy. Women have been, for better or worse have been objectified for millennia. Any notion of tangible empowerment, or recognition for individual self worth, or equal worth for that matter has been fought for tooth and nail only since the the early part of the 20th century.

You'll see the cycle change as far as gender objectification once there is an equitable representation of genders at the top with those in power and making decisions. If women were the majority of the suits making the calls, I'd imagine the musical landscape would be somewhat different.
Old 6th September 2019
  #35
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Whereas you can have over the top Beatle-esque bubble gum adoration the boy bands enjoy, there is pervasive "Sailor Moon" type school girl depiction with the girl groups that is very sexual in nature, and reeks with undertones of pedophilia.
Which ones? There aren't really any girl groups, much less underage girl groups being depicted sexually. There's Fifth Harmony, but they're all well into their 20s so no pedophilia. GRL is a failed girl group from a few years ago, also well into their 20s. Pussycat Dolls from the 2000s but also well into their 20s at the time. That's all I can think of that are in or got close to mainstream. You're pulling stuff completely from your ass man.
Old 6th September 2019
  #36
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
You're pulling stuff completely from your ass man.
Having watched it on and off for the last 10 years, I'm just telling you what I've seen. Also having watched Sailor Moon, there's no mistake with the school girl uniform fetish going on.

If that's pulling stuff from one's ass, so be it...
Old 6th September 2019
  #37
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Having watched it on and off for the last 10 years, I'm just telling you what I've seen. Also having watched Sailor Moon, there's no mistake with the school girl uniform fetish going on.

If that's pulling stuff from one's ass, so be it...
The last 10 years have produced ZERO underage girl groups being sexualized by the music industry.

We're talking about the music business in 2019 and you've jumped to one particular Japanese anime from the 1990s. Come on man. Don't cherry pick evidence in a nonsensical manner like his, look at what's there.
Old 6th September 2019
  #38
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Here's a broad view on the subject.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual...ation_in_K-pop

Quote:
Both male and female K-pop artists face sexualization and objectification; however, female K-pop artists seem to experience a disproportionate amount.[9] Women are subjected to the western male gaze, dollification, and being considered exotic and submissive for their masculine fans in a patriarchal society.[9] Femininity is desired to coincide with the neo-Confucian patriarchal social structure so as to maximize profit; idols are normally forced into this definition in conjunction with Korea's inherently well-defined roll for women.
Read it man, and put down your myopic glasses while you're at it...
Old 6th September 2019
  #39
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Here's a broad view on the subject.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual...ation_in_K-pop



Read it man, and put down your myopic glasses while you're at it...
Ok, we're leaving 90s Japanese anime heading off into the sub-set of the music biz that is K Pop, which has little to do with the American and Western music industries. Even then. . . here's the article where that Wiki bit comes from: http://www.e-asianwomen.org/_common/...930&aidx=12430

Which says:

Although most of the K-pop fandom is geared towards male idols, this paper focuses mainly on the sexual objectification, lookism, and sexism in girl idols’ music and the potential influence on fans’ (mostly young females) gender attitudes.

So while, in terms of relativity, they may find the girls that are there are being more sexualized (IE 50% of 20% instead of 40% of 80%), overall K Pop is male-centric, sexualizing young men in much greater numbers than young women, exemplified in American social media where young girls fetishize the K Pop dudes nonstop while the K Pop girls hardly get noticed.
Old 6th September 2019
  #40
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Ok, we're leaving 90s Japanese anime heading off into the sub-set of the music biz that is K Pop, which has little to do with the American and Western music industries.
2019...

dunno man, looks like it could be a massage team for team Epstein.
Old 6th September 2019
  #41
Lives for gear
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual...ation_in_K-pop

"This article has multiple issues. Please help improve it or discuss these issues on the talk page. (Learn how and when to remove these template messages)
This article may need to be rewritten to comply with Wikipedia's quality standards. (June 2019)
This article is written like a personal reflection, personal essay, or argumentative essay that states a Wikipedia editor's personal feelings or presents an original argument about a topic. (June 2019)"

Old 6th September 2019
  #42
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
2019...

dunno man, looks like it could be a massage team for team Epstein.
And for every one of those, there are 10 boy bands in S Korea done up the same.

Note that you've had to zoom in on one particular Asian culture and spin like FOX to continue this argument. Because in the American and Western music biz, none of what you're saying is the least bit accurate.
Old 6th September 2019
  #43
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
And for every one of those, there are 10 boy bands in S Korea done up the same.

Note that you've had to zoom in on one particular Asian culture and spin like FOX to continue this argument. Because in the American and Western music biz, none of what you're saying is the least bit accurate.
Why aren't they dressing the boys as Little Lord Fauntleroy or Angus Youngs?

You don't see that the sexualization is different between the two?
Old 6th September 2019
  #44
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Why aren't they dressing the boys as Little Lord Fauntleroy or Angus Youngs?

You don't see that the sexualization is different between the two?
Yes, they dress the boy bands up in schoolboy outfits and other fetish type outfits. I'm happy to continue this conversation if you'd like to talk the American and Western music business. I'm not going to get Tucker Carlson'd by you man where you jump from one little tidbit to the next with no clean and consistent line of thought that doesn't have much to do with anything actually being discussed and where cold hard facts (K Pop is heavily boy band dominant) get ignored.
Old 6th September 2019
  #45
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Whaaa?
Tucker Carlson?!?

I'm just telling like it is...I don't prevaricate or spin, or shy away from anything.

You're the one to first bring up K-pop btw...
Old 6th September 2019
  #46
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Whaaa?
Tucker Carlson?!?

I'm just telling like it is...I don't prevaricate or spin, or shy away from anything.

You're the one to first bring up K-pop btw...
I brought up K Pop in the context of, in American social media related to music, that's where you see the most sexualization going on, in the direction of female to male.

In the American and western music biz, there are exactly zero underage girl groups being sexualized.

You're Tucker because you're going out of your way to seek evidence towards a pre-conceived belief, heading all the way to S Korea and then ignoring the data that shows the kid-music scene there is mostly about the guys. If you simply look at what's there objectively, it tells a different story than your pre-conceived belief. You're rationalizing instead of using logic.

Last edited by newguy1; 6th September 2019 at 06:09 PM..
Old 6th September 2019
  #47
Lives for gear
 
boombapdame's Avatar
 

I @ 12tone get it and for a similar occurrence for males why are most Kpop male stars look so girly/feminine
Old 6th September 2019
  #48
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
You're Tucker because you're going out of your way to seek evidence towards a pre-conceived belief, heading all the way to S Korea and then ignoring the data that shows the kid-music scene is mostly about the guys. If you simply look at what's there objectively, it tells a different story than your pre-conceived belief. You're rationalizing instead of using logic.
First I'm like the anti Tucker...

secondly, again dude, you brought up K-pop first, so I'm not going out of the way, I'm just responding to you.



You have to realize that there is no one monolithic K-pop audience. If you look at the S Korean demographics for it, it encompasses basically the entire country from kids to grandmas. There's almost a jingoistic fervor for it there, that's an extreme source of pride for the nation at large.

What also has to be realized is how much k-pop is derivative of American pop and culture. But sometimes while musical aspects can evolve and proliferate, there are negative aspects of the appropriation. Such as instances of girl bands dressed up as school girls, or things like blackfaced wanna be gangstas, etc...
Old 6th September 2019
  #49
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
First I'm like the anti Tucker...
In opinion, yes. But your MO is the exact same.

"I need there to be a war on Christmas. So let me look everywhere in the US until I find a county that took down a nativity scene and then blast that out as representative of the entire opposition and attribute that single instance to a declaration of war on a holiday by everyone."

"I need there to be underaged female sexualization (since that was my argument). So let me look everywhere in the world until I find a country that has a few example of this and then blast that out as representative of the entire music biz and attribute that to institutionalized patriarchal pedophilia in America."

Nonsense.
Old 6th September 2019
  #50
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
In opinion, yes. But your MO is the exact same.

"I need there to be a war on Christmas. So let me look everywhere in the US until I find a county that took down a nativity scene and then blast that out as representative of the entire opposition and attribute that single instance to a declaration of war on a holiday by everyone."

"I need there to be underaged female sexualization (since that was my argument). So let me look everywhere in the world until I find a country that has a few example of this and then blast that out as representative of the entire music biz and attribute that to institutionalized patriarchal pedophilia in America."

Nonsense.
I need?!?

I need nothing my friend other than the freedom of my thoughts and expression.

There's nothing I said that's wrong or unprovable.

BTW, patriarchal sexual predation and harassment is systemic and institutionalized. This has been thoroughly, unequivocally shown in the last couple of years, as if we didn't know it already existed...
Old 6th September 2019
  #51
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
I need?!?

I need nothing my friend other than the freedom of my thoughts and expression.
Yes, you need. Because you made a claim, have attached ego to that claim, and now feel you must defend it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
There's nothing I said that's wrong or unprovable.
Yes there is, your two main points have been wrong. 1. Most charting female singers aren't any higher up on the sexual market place scale than Ed Sheeran. Several are average at best, some even below average. Even the most attractive couldn't be a model. 2. There isn't rampant sexualization of underage females in the Western music biz. I can't think of a single instance of this since Britney Spears in the late 90s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
BTW, patriarchal sexual predation and harassment is systemic and institutionalized. This has been thoroughly, unequivocally shown in the last couple of years, as if we didn't know it already existed...
This is true, but its not one-size-fits-all and doesn't really apply to the last decade or two of the Western music biz. This is your error - trying to shoehorn everything into this statement and THEN seek evidence towards it. Great strides and progress have been made, esp in the music biz.

I maintain that this is the reality you'll settle on if you objectively look at things:

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
An objective look at the women in the music biz should lead to a sense of optimism for women (as far as looks), as model-esque attractiveness doesn’t seem to matter much at all right now. The songs are coming first, and then it’s about the creative and unique style of the person behind the music.
Old 6th September 2019
  #52
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
Yes, you need. Because you made a claim, have attached ego to that claim, and now feel you must defend it.
I stand by the claim. My ego believe you me is not attached to it. I would have more of it attached if you and I were to engage in a push up contest.

And again, I don't need anything in the sense "I need anything." I don't get it, why you're getting defensive at all - I don't need anything from this thread other than expressing my opinions.

You're free to disagree with me, ain't no biggie. But it's presumptuous of you to infer that I need this or that. Who thinks like that? It's laughable...
Old 6th September 2019
  #53
Lives for gear
 

I'm just waiting for someone to bring up the mythical "gender paygap" lmao.
Old 6th September 2019
  #54
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
I'm just waiting for someone to bring up the mythical "gender paygap" lmao.
Well, apropos of the recent tangent on this thread, fashion modelling is one of the rare occupations where there is a huge gender pay-gap, but the other way around. But hey, when objectification is built in, it can pay dividends for a lucky few.

You really think pay inequality is a myth? The other day the female co-writer quit on the sequel for Crazy Rich Asians because she found out her male counterpart was making 10x more.

But that's just one example. The others, where the pay-gap basically exists for the entire workforce, it's well documented, and the figures don't lie...
Old 6th September 2019
  #55
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Well, apropos of the recent tangent on this thread, fashion modelling is one of the rare occupations where there is a huge gender pay-gap, but the other way around. But hey, when objectification is built in, it can pay dividends for a lucky few.

Quote:
You really think pay inequality is a myth? The other day the female co-writer quit on the sequel for Crazy Rich Asians because she found out her male counterpart was making 10x more.
Are you really using one example (unqualified and without any detail) to make a claim for entire populations?


Quote:
But that's just one example. The others, where the pay-gap basically exists for the entire workforce, it's well documented, and the figures don't lie...
It's been debunked time and again but people keep repeating it regardless. People who work longer hours get more pay. People who work more dangerous jobs get more pay. People who work in more specialized/STEM fields get more pay. People who move for work get more pay. People ask for more pay get more pay. Men in general happen to do more of these things. There's nothing stopping women from doing any of the above except they CHOOSE not to.

When you adjust for REALITY, the "gender pay gap" disappears.
Old 6th September 2019
  #56
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by creegstor View Post
It's been debunked time and again but people keep repeating it regardless. People who work longer hours get more pay. People who work more dangerous jobs get more pay. People who work in more specialized/STEM fields get more pay. People who move for work get more pay. People ask for more pay get more pay. Men in general happen to do more of these things. There's nothing stopping women from doing any of the above except they CHOOSE not to.

When you adjust for REALITY, the "gender pay gap" disappears.
Lilly Ledbetter would disagree...
Old 6th September 2019
  #57
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Lilly Ledbetter would disagree...
She can disagree all she likes but the facts won't change.
Old 12th September 2019
  #58
Here for the gear
 

I hadn't heard about this show, but I remember a songwriting reality competition flopping a few years back (2013-ish). I tried to look it up online to explain, but couldn't find it. The weird thing is, no matter what I typed in, the only thing that showed up was Songland. And I typed in a variety of channels (that are not NBC), used years as keywords, all kinds of stuff.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #59
Lives for gear
 
boombapdame's Avatar
 

Bravo @ pianowillbebach had a show in 2011 called Platinum Hit.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #60
Quote:
Originally Posted by pianowillbebach View Post
I hadn't heard about this show, but I remember a songwriting reality competition flopping a few years back (2013-ish). I tried to look it up online to explain, but couldn't find it. The weird thing is, no matter what I typed in, the only thing that showed up was Songland. And I typed in a variety of channels (that are not NBC), used years as keywords, all kinds of stuff.
There are a number of so-called SEO best practices that can allow a canny specialist to all but 'own' a given search term for a while (typically as long as their efforts to distort search engine results are actively pursued, and then a little longer, since it takes the web and search engines a while to 'catch up' and start rejecting bogus associations and returns.)

For instance, I've owned the domain names AYearOfSongs.org and .com since 2005. If anyone searched on 'a year of songs' -- they'd quickly end up on my website.

But a few years ago this English show singer decided (without apparently doing an research [ahem]) to call his new album, you guessed it, "A Year of Songs." It was released on Rhino/East West.

And they managed to WIPE my search returns off the face of the Internet. Obliterate them.

I still own the domain. And if the [inconsiderate fellow] offered me a thousand bucks for it, I'd tell him to shove his money where the sun doesn't shine, sideways.

But it doesn't seem to do me much good, since anyone searching for my blog/podcast ends up on that [gentleman's] label site.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump