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Lyric copyright (Google V. Genius)
Old 17th June 2019
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Lyric copyright (Google V. Genius)

I was reading an article about how Genius.com put "morse code" into "its" song lyrics to prove that Google was lifting them from the site and posting them in search results. (https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/16/1...ong-rap-lyrics)

It struck me that Google was pretty much copying Genius' copy of a third party's work.

I've never looked into this, nor really thought about of it before, but Genius.com doesn't licenses those lyrics, the way it would have to license the recorded lyrics, does it? Is that even a thing? Can you really claim someone is infringing on something you don't even own? That'd be like a guitar tab site suing a cover band over their bar gig last Saturday night.

Thoughts?

I am not a lawyer, nor have I played one on TV.
Old 18th June 2019
  #2
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealSPH3 View Post
I was reading an article about how Genius.com put "morse code" into "its" song lyrics to prove that Google was lifting them from the site and posting them in search results. (https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/16/1...ong-rap-lyrics)

It struck me that Google was pretty much copying Genius' copy of a third party's work.

I've never looked into this, nor really thought about of it before, but Genius.com doesn't licenses those lyrics, the way it would have to license the recorded lyrics, does it? Is that even a thing? Can you really claim someone is infringing on something you don't even own? That'd be like a guitar tab site suing a cover band over their bar gig last Saturday night.

Thoughts?

I am not a lawyer, nor have I played one on TV.
Well, I have the Perry Mason B&W boxed set, so clearly I have much expertise in intellectual property matters. (I think Perry mentioned copyright in about one of the 270 or so episodes.)

On that rock-solid foundation, I'll offer this speculative and only partially researched response: Rap Genius does appear to hold both original content from various personalities, commenters, bloggers as well as previously published lyrics.

Their Wikipedia article noted: "October 2013, Rap Genius was one of fifty sites targeted with notices by the National Music Publishers Association for the unlicensed online publication of song lyrics. Unlike Genius, most of the sites that were targeted were ad-supported."

They ALSO found themselves in conflict with Google over how their backlinks worked on their site. Google felt they were constructed in a way to game search engine results and dinged them by 'submerging' some of their search results. After discussions, Rap Genius apologized for the linking scheme.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genius...search_penalty


I've consulted with Paul and Dellla and, frankly, it looks a bit murky for this armchair TV lawyer... I think I'm going up to Bear Lake and go fly fishing with Paul.
Old 18th June 2019
  #3
Gear Nut
 

So I guess Genius does have some licensing agreements with the big guys, such as ASCAP. I have to imagine that Google does as well though, given its streaming music service. Maybe they are different licenses, although Google Music does display song lyrics in the app.

Some times I wish I would of went to law school. Mainly at times like this and when I'm dreaming of own a slew of original blackface Fenders and similar vintage guitars. Being a "blues lawyer" was my true calling, and I blew it.
Old 18th June 2019
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealSPH3 View Post
So I guess Genius does have some licensing agreements with the big guys, such as ASCAP. I have to imagine that Google does as well though, given its streaming music service. Maybe they are different licenses, although Google Music does display song lyrics in the app.

Some times I wish I would of went to law school. Mainly at times like this and when I'm dreaming of own a slew of original blackface Fenders and similar vintage guitars. Being a "blues lawyer" was my true calling, and I blew it.


As they say: it's never too late.

People suggested I think about law as a kid (probably because I was so obsessive-compulsive about being 'right') -- and more than a couple of my college era friends (and a GF or two) did go to law school.

Me, I was always thinking more Paul Drake, PI, than Perry Mason, JD.

But I gotta say, I did admire the cut of Perry Mason's tailored suits... it takes a lot of tailoring to get a suit to hang sleek on a bear of a man like that.
Old 18th June 2019
  #5
Gear Nut
 

It might be a little too late for me to go back to law school. Besides, you hit on my real dream gig; being a private investigator. More along the lines of Phil Marlowe than Paul Drake.

Eh, who am I kidding? I'd be a PI more along the lines of Ace Venture than Marlowe or even Tom Magnum.
Old 18th June 2019
  #6
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Well, I have the Perry Mason B&W boxed set
I envy you that and am now determined to rectify the situation. As I grew up in the 60s watching Perry and countless reruns through the years, you can understand that, if I were to offer some advise on copyright law in this thread, my views should very much be respected!

But no need for me to chime in as the Perry Mason School of Law is already being well represented.
Old 18th June 2019
  #7
Lives for gear
 
clump's Avatar
 

"She was a blonde, a blonde to make a bishop kick a hole in a stained-glass window....She gave me a smile I could feel in my hip pocket."
Old 18th June 2019
  #8
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
"She was a blonde, a blonde to make a bishop kick a hole in a stained-glass window....She gave me a smile I could feel in my hip pocket."
Ol' Ray could really turn a phrase.
Old 19th June 2019
  #9
And let's not neglect the OG, Mr Dashiell Hammett. Who started out... as a detective.

(Although he sometimes described his work for the Pinkerton Agency as 'strikebreaker.')

Paul Drake -- or rather the actor who played him, William Hopper, had been an underwater demolition guy in WWII (one reason he looked reasonably comfortable in SCUBA gear in a number of episodes), in addition to being news columnist Hedda Hopper's son. (He actually started acting before the war. His first role was in 1916 as a baby in a carriage.)

PS... the box set of PM episodes I got from Amazon, published by CBS video, was the right price ($100 for 270 episodes on 70 disks) but I have to say the set production and packaging left something to be desired. The video quality is overall acceptable for a 50s B&W show, but the contrast/brightness vary and the audio for part of one season has this quite odd foldback echo which gives a number of episodes an odd ambience [really noticeable in exterior shots]. Also the disk holder hubs are poorly sized for the disks themselves. On only the second time through, I noticed some disks had developed cracks in their hub areas from the too-large, not nearly springy-enough disk holder hubs. I'll give Perry Mason the series an A+ (for 50s TV, anyhow) but CBS Video a C-/D+ for crappy packaging. Still, I'm glad I have it and I moved all the disks into envelopes instead (and made screen-cap copies of the worst cracked). I may not have a TV anymore, but at least I can still watch Perry Mason reruns at lunch every day. (And twice on weekends.)

The theme song for Perry Mason addicts...

Old 19th June 2019
  #10
Gear Addict
 

There's nothing like the real thing. Mmm, Della.

Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
Gear Nut
 

Not to change the subject, but I guess Google does license lyric content: The lyrics in question were provided to Google by LyricFind, as was confirmed to WSJ prior to publication. Google licenses lyrics content from music publishers (the rightful owner of the lyrics) and from LyricFind. To accuse them of any wrongdoing is extremely misleading. (https://lyricfind.com/index.php?id=316)

Who knew transcribing lyrics was so lucrative?

Anyway, back to the matter at hand. I never got into Hammett, although sometimes I'll listen to the old Sam Spade radio shows.

Last edited by TheRealSPH3; 4 weeks ago at 02:03 PM.. Reason: Wrong dude.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #12
Lives for gear
 
clump's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealSPH3 View Post
Not to change the subject, but I guess Google does license lyric content: The lyrics in question were provided to Google by LyricFind, as was confirmed to WSJ prior to publication. Google licenses lyrics content from music publishers (the rightful owner of the lyrics) and from LyricFind. To accuse them of any wrongdoing is extremely misleading. (https://lyricfind.com/index.php?id=316)

Who knew transcribing lyrics was so lucrative?

Anyway, back to the matter at hand. I never got into Hammett, although sometimes I'll listen to the old Sam Spade radio shows.
Did anybody get into 'Bluey' starring Lucky Grills?......It became quite a cult hit in the UK during the late 70s.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
Did anybody get into 'Bluey' starring Lucky Grills?......It became quite a cult hit in the UK during the late 70s.
That sounds pretty interesting. I often have liked cop procedurals. And if the cop in question is a bit extra-interesting... more's the better. Also, Australia seems pretty exotic to a lot of Americans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluey_(1976_TV_series)


[I took note in the article that it was common in those days to shoot Aussie TV interiors to videotape and exteriors to film. I'm thinking maybe in the UK, too, perhaps. It helps explain some things that had seemed odd to me I've seen over the years watching import TV.]
Old 4 weeks ago
  #14
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
[I took note in the article that it was common in those days to shoot Aussie TV interiors to videotape and exteriors to film. I'm thinking maybe in the UK, too, perhaps. It helps explain some things that had seemed odd to me I've seen over the years watching import TV.]
I've always wondered what the deal was with the varying quality. I wonder what the purpose was, tape being cheaper than film or if it was a technical thing?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #15
Taping is much, much cheaper than film as a rule. Not just the film stock and processing (which is a big deal, no doubt) but also in terms of production. Unless you used a filming system with parallel video capture (for 'instant playback'), you had to wait for the rushes to see what worked and what needed to be reshot.

I'd noticed the variance, too, but it was mostly in stuff like the comedy shows like Monty Python and Benny Hill. (Also, it looked like a lot of the film work was shot onto 16 mm, not 35 as was, I believe, standard for filmed shows in the States. In the 1970s a lot of American TV shows moved to the much cheaper video production paradigm -- but the visual results are easy to see in reruns of the era. That said, since a lot of filmed color shows were poorly preserved, many filmed shows look quite shabby when seen today.)
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
"She was a blonde, a blonde to make a bishop kick a hole in a stained-glass window....She gave me a smile I could feel in my hip pocket."
"I opened the door and there staring me in the face a pair of 45's, oh, and she had a gun too"
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