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Weird vocal timing problem, need help.
Old 3rd February 2019
  #1
Gear Head
 

Weird vocal timing problem, need help.

Hey guys,

I don't know if this is the right section to post this question (extremely basic stupid question) in but i mainly produce and i started writing during my time and sometimes record demos.

the weird problem is that when i take long breaks from writing and recording i struggle to perform vocals on time with the beat and have each line timed consistently within a bar especially when recording references singing and tend to find myself out of breath at the end of 1 or 2 bars (even with a metronome).

I write personal demos for raps and i don't seem to have this issue as much but for when i'm singing a reference track demos like i am right now; i think i kind of hold notes for too long for some reason.

if i were to sing this song with headphones off and record it on my phone with the beat in the background on my monitors i'd be perfectly on time; its like only when i put headphones on and start recording i go off time and hold notes too long.

i write and try to sing to akin this line structure format if it means anything:

dsaksdj sakjsdkasj ksadjks
skadjsak sakdjskjda jkasdj
asdjhjasdh sjahsjh jhasdjhd
asjhdj jsadhjs hdsajhjsadh

--------------------------------

i don't have a formal understanding or know a defined formula of how to record on time , i can do it consistently in general off the mic but when it comes to recording on my mic for some reason i tend to consistently struggle.

if anybody has any tips/formulas relevant to vocal timing while in the actual recording process or general i'd be glad to hear them and be really grateful as i always am after receiving assistance on this forum.

its like i have to do a millions of takes before i can record a single song; and once i get it, i then take a break to just produce and i forget.

i also personally really prefer to not punch in.
Old 3rd February 2019
  #2
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PillsInfinity View Post
Hey guys,

I don't know if this is the right section to post this question (extremely basic stupid question) in but i mainly produce and i started writing during my time and sometimes record demos.

the weird problem is that when i take long breaks from writing and recording i struggle to perform vocals on time with the beat and have each line timed consistently within a bar especially when recording references singing and tend to find myself out of breath at the end of 1 or 2 bars (even with a metronome).

I write personal demos for raps and i don't seem to have this issue as much but for when i'm singing a reference track demos like i am right now; i think i kind of hold notes for too long for some reason.

if i were to sing this song with headphones off and record it on my phone with the beat in the background on my monitors i'd be perfectly on time; its like only when i put headphones on and start recording i go off time and hold notes too long.

i write and try to sing to akin this line structure format if it means anything:

dsaksdj sakjsdkasj ksadjks
skadjsak sakdjskjda jkasdj
asdjhjasdh sjahsjh jhasdjhd
asjhdj jsadhjs hdsajhjsadh

--------------------------------

i don't have a formal understanding or know a defined formula of how to record on time , i can do it consistently in general off the mic but when it comes to recording on my mic for some reason i tend to consistently struggle.

if anybody has any tips/formulas relevant to vocal timing while in the actual recording process or general i'd be glad to hear them and be really grateful as i always am after receiving assistance on this forum.

its like i have to do a millions of takes before i can record a single song; and once i get it, i then take a break to just produce and i forget.

i also personally really prefer to not punch in.
Have you tried recording with some one else in the room ie. an audience. If only a psychological effect it will always make the head try harder.
Old 3rd February 2019
  #3
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pquinn View Post
Have you tried recording with some one else in the room ie. an audience. If only a psychological effect it will always make the head try harder.
i usually like to produce/record alone; last time i didnt i recorded with my best friend 2 years ago and i was doing the same thing but i was rapping; but i was also structuring my bars wrong at the time.

so i don't know if it was also a bit psychological because i am prone to getting fits of anxiety but lately i've been doing a lot (large amount) better with that.

one thing i did notice when recording this morning before i made the post is i don't know how to time the vocals with the bars from a fundamental level; if i were to learn more about i kind of think it'd improve the consistency in my delivery.
Old 5th February 2019
  #4
I'm more a singer than a rapper (although some would argue with the 'singing' characterization) but something I do with trickier vocal line cadences is to mark the downbeats over the appropriate syllables on my lyric sheet. (Once I've figured them out, anyhow.)

If the term 'downbeat' is hazy for you, just keep in mind that we tend to organize most conventional pop music and rap in regular rhythmic structures -- very often in various combinations of fours; four beats to a bar, four bars to a line, 4 lines to a verse or verse section. (It's not always that way, there are no hard, fast rules, but, in a huge number of cases, things get laid out that way or some close variation. The first beat of a bar is, by common definition, called the downbeat -- also called 'the one.'

If you find yourself needing to count beats and measures with such a rhythmic structure, many folks use this system to count...

1 2 3 4 2 2 3 4 3 2 3 4 4 2 3 4
5
2 3 4 6 2 3 4 7 2 3 4 8 2 3 4
9 2 3 4...

... where the bold/big number on the downbeat is the number of the bar and the small numbers, of course, count the individual beats of typical 4/4 bars.

Getting used to counting out beats like that can help you get used to the regular repeats that are a typical aspect of pop music. Even if contemporary pop and hip hop doesn't always have conventional verses, choruses, and such, doesn't mean that it doesn't (usually) have repeating inner structures. (Not always in neat blocks of four, of course, but, you'd be surprised.)

We come to expect these structures (and variants on them) -- and a clever writer uses that expectation to set up different parts -- and sometimes play and tease those expectations in various ways, adding fills or rests to build anticipation, even defying those expectations for surprise or emphasis.
Old 14th February 2019
  #5
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I'm more a singer than a rapper (although some would argue with the 'singing' characterization) but something I do with trickier vocal line cadences is to mark the downbeats over the appropriate syllables on my lyric sheet. (Once I've figured them out, anyhow.)

If the term 'downbeat' is hazy for you, just keep in mind that we tend to organize most conventional pop music and rap in regular rhythmic structures -- very often in various combinations of fours; four beats to a bar, four bars to a line, 4 lines to a verse or verse section. (It's not always that way, there are no hard, fast rules, but, in a huge number of cases, things get laid out that way or some close variation. The first beat of a bar is, by common definition, called the downbeat -- also called 'the one.'

If you find yourself needing to count beats and measures with such a rhythmic structure, many folks use this system to count...

1 2 3 4 2 2 3 4 3 2 3 4 4 2 3 4
5
2 3 4 6 2 3 4 7 2 3 4 8 2 3 4
9 2 3 4...

... where the bold/big number on the downbeat is the number of the bar and the small numbers, of course, count the individual beats of typical 4/4 bars.

Getting used to counting out beats like that can help you get used to the regular repeats that are a typical aspect of pop music. Even if contemporary pop and hip hop doesn't always have conventional verses, choruses, and such, doesn't mean that it doesn't (usually) have repeating inner structures. (Not always in neat blocks of four, of course, but, you'd be surprised.)

We come to expect these structures (and variants on them) -- and a clever writer uses that expectation to set up different parts -- and sometimes play and tease those expectations in various ways, adding fills or rests to build anticipation, even defying those expectations for surprise or emphasis.
Thanks, think i get it. i'll try it out after i fix my MPC thats on the fritz again.
Old 13th March 2019
  #6
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I'm more a singer than a rapper (although some would argue with the 'singing' characterization) but something I do with trickier vocal line cadences is to mark the downbeats over the appropriate syllables on my lyric sheet. (Once I've figured them out, anyhow.)

If the term 'downbeat' is hazy for you, just keep in mind that we tend to organize most conventional pop music and rap in regular rhythmic structures -- very often in various combinations of fours; four beats to a bar, four bars to a line, 4 lines to a verse or verse section. (It's not always that way, there are no hard, fast rules, but, in a huge number of cases, things get laid out that way or some close variation. The first beat of a bar is, by common definition, called the downbeat -- also called 'the one.'

If you find yourself needing to count beats and measures with such a rhythmic structure, many folks use this system to count...

1 2 3 4 2 2 3 4 3 2 3 4 4 2 3 4
5
2 3 4 6 2 3 4 7 2 3 4 8 2 3 4
9 2 3 4...

... where the bold/big number on the downbeat is the number of the bar and the small numbers, of course, count the individual beats of typical 4/4 bars.

Getting used to counting out beats like that can help you get used to the regular repeats that are a typical aspect of pop music. Even if contemporary pop and hip hop doesn't always have conventional verses, choruses, and such, doesn't mean that it doesn't (usually) have repeating inner structures. (Not always in neat blocks of four, of course, but, you'd be surprised.)

We come to expect these structures (and variants on them) -- and a clever writer uses that expectation to set up different parts -- and sometimes play and tease those expectations in various ways, adding fills or rests to build anticipation, even defying those expectations for surprise or emphasis.
i tried it a couple times since and even evaluated that idea while listening to songs when i exercise; i think my sinus problems may have caused me to not be able to hear myself properly at the time and i didn't notice but what you said definitely did help; thank you but left ear is still blocked
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