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Why don't we switch to 432Hz tuning? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 31st May 2018
  #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrl View Post
Man, you are close, but your math is off. 4+3+2 does indeed equal 12. But you have to split it in two (reflective proprty) to get 6. Then write it three times so it comes out 666.

As a proof, use the reflective property again, 432 + 234 = 666.

So there you have it. 432 is the devil!
So much hidden truth in the numbers. indeed

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
Come to think of it...

...How the hell did "A" get to be some kinda "magic starting pitch"?

Why not (for instance) Ѫ=440 (or whatever)?
.
The direction of the top of a perfect isosceles A at the North Pole points directly at Jupiter 3 times a year. Therefore A has to be the "magic starting point."

The top of the symbol you chose would point out at odd angles at the North Pole, Jupiter would get missed entirely, planetary harmonic alignment would never happen, and sound as we know it would cease to exist.
Old 31st May 2018
  #392
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Manfred Man was clued in early. Bet this is recorded in 432

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odqSCLHSPkU
Old 31st May 2018
  #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
Assuming you are only using guitars, or virtual keyboards. The use of real pianos, organs etc will be enormously slowed. Indeed, the take will have to be moved up so the keyboard player can play against it,and the keyboard part then pitched shifted down.

I won't even go into the stability and intonation tendencies of brass and woodwind instruments when moved away from the pitch standard they were deigned to work optimally at.

One shouldn't assume that guitar players are the only likely musicians on a project.
Absolutely. The process of actually getting some instruments to that intonation point is another issue entirely.
Old 31st May 2018
  #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
Manfred Man was clued in early. Bet this is recorded in 432

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odqSCLHSPkU
Prolly just too 420 much before setting the tape reference
Old 18th June 2018
  #395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Case View Post

Those who support 432 say it is one of the numbers occurring in the fibonacci sequence repeatedly found in nature.

generally agreed w/ what you stated. But I also checked for fun and turns out, 432 is not in the fibonacci sequence.
Old 19th June 2018
  #396
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Carnalia Barcus's Avatar
 

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Originally Posted by AndreiPiatra View Post
3 years ago I was in a place where doctors told me they need to put me on medication for the rest of my life.
What a surprise that revelation is, after a post about "sacred numbers" and the like.

If there's something special about 432Hz, what do you suggest we do--write songs that only consist of that one pitch?
Old 19th June 2018
  #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnalia Barcus View Post
If there's something special about 432Hz, what do you suggest we do--write songs that only consist of that one pitch?
The great Italian composer Giacinto Scelsi could've done that.

Giacinto Scelsi - Wikipedia
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Old 19th June 2018
  #398
I did a cursory search across all the pages in this post (I have my user settings set to 100 posts/page so not as onerous a task as it could be, at least using find-on-page search) and I don't think this has been posted before...

From piano tuner and blogger, Ryan Peterson

A440 vs A432 — Peterson Piano Tuning


And Peterson links to this article in Vice for more info on the topic...

The 432Hz 'God' Note: Why Fringe Audiophiles Want to Topple Standard Tuning - Motherboard
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Old 19th June 2018
  #399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I did a cursory search across all the pages in this post (I have my user settings set to 100 posts/page so not as onerous a task as it could be, at least using find-on-page search) and I don't think this has been posted before...

From piano tuner and blogger, Ryan Peterson

A440 vs A432 — Peterson Piano Tuning


And Peterson links to this article in Vice for more info on the topic...

The 432Hz 'God' Note: Why Fringe Audiophiles Want to Topple Standard Tuning - Motherboard
I did listen to the video of "8 hours of pure 432 Hz tone" in the lower link - For about 10 seconds.

The only thing I've learnt is that a 432 sine wave is every bit as irritating as a 440 sine wave. Both sound like an allignment tone or an alarm going off.
Old 19th June 2018
  #400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I did a cursory search across all the pages in this post (I have my user settings set to 100 posts/page so not as onerous a task as it could be, at least using find-on-page search) and I don't think this has been posted before...

From piano tuner and blogger, Ryan Peterson

A440 vs A432 — Peterson Piano Tuning


And Peterson links to this article in Vice for more info on the topic...

The 432Hz 'God' Note: Why Fringe Audiophiles Want to Topple Standard Tuning - Motherboard
Just think if the 432Hz advocates would apply their brainpower to something that's not nonsense. There's certainly enough in the sciences to keep them entertained.
Old 19th June 2018
  #401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnalia Barcus View Post
Just think if the 432Hz advocates would apply their brainpower to something that's not nonsense. There's certainly enough in the sciences to keep them entertained.
Given their propensity to cherry pick or fabricate data to support their preconceived opinions? No, thank you. Leave them to argue something obviously meaningless rather than creating the next autism/vaccine conspiracy theory, thank you very much.
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Old 19th June 2018
  #402
Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
I did listen to the video of "8 hours of pure 432 Hz tone" in the lower link - For about 10 seconds.

The only thing I've learnt is that a 432 sine wave is every bit as irritating as a 440 sine wave. Both sound like an allignment tone or an alarm going off.
It was the 'pitch comparison' vid that amused me. Along with getting his dates wrong and various misspellings, he used a scratchy old record as the source for his presumed comparison of the original and a pitch-shifted version. The gritty sound of extreme wear and the several nasty 'bump' sounds of extreme stylus drop damage really scream 'Loser!' at near-0 dbFS levels.

The vid claims 'The N---' mandated A440 in 1940. (I'm thinking, two years into the European war, that 'the N---' had bigger things on his/their mind.) YT Vid: 432 Hz vs 440 Hz / Frequences.

It then goes on to suggest that "Since 1950, ( A = 440 Hz ) pitch was decied [sic] to be used all over the world."

In reality, "Johann Heinrich Scheibler recommended A440 as a standard in 1834 after inventing the "tonometer" to measure pitch, and it was approved by the German Natural History Society the same year. The American music industry reached an informal standard of 440 Hz in 1926, and some began using it in instrument manufacturing." A440 (pitch standard - Wikipedia)

And standardization became final in the US in 1939: "On the 11th of June the American music industry adopted A440. The pitch of A440 has remained the standard since 1939." History of Pitch - Tuning Forks A440 C523.3
Old 19th June 2018
  #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
Given their propensity to cherry pick or fabricate data to support their preconceived opinions? No, thank you. Leave them to argue something obviously meaningless rather than creating the next autism/vaccine conspiracy theory, thank you very much.
The next autism/vaccine conspiracy theory wouldn't count as "not nonsense." But I guess the idea is that they'd not be able to stay away from positing nonsense.
Old 19th June 2018
  #404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
Given their propensity to cherry pick or fabricate data to support their preconceived opinions? No, thank you. Leave them to argue something obviously meaningless rather than creating the next autism/vaccine conspiracy theory, thank you very much.



Yeah, man... we definitely don't want those guys monkeying around with secret magic numbers and the fundamental resonances of the universe! Think of the devastation or worse they might unleash!
Old 19th June 2018
  #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
It was the 'pitch comparison' vid that amused me.
I mostly liked the video showing that 432 made nicer vibration null patterns on a metal sheet.

I'm no physicist, but I have a feeling that the resonance pattern is determined by the size, thickness, ductility and mass of the plate, rather than the specific frequency it's excited at, just as different acoustic guitar tops show different vibration patterns for the same note.

I'd imagine that, with the proper manipulation of the bottom thickness, one could make a plate that displays the devil's horns when excited at 440.

That would settle the debate.
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Old 19th June 2018
  #406
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Carnalia Barcus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
I mostly liked the video showing that 432 made nicer vibration null patterns on a metal sheet.

I'm no physicist, but I have a feeling that the resonance pattern is determined by the size, thickness, ductility and mass of the plate, rather than the specific frequency it's excited at, just as different acoustic guitar tops show different vibration patterns for the same note.

I'd imagine that, with the proper manipulation of the bottom thickness, one could make a plate that displays the devil's horns when excited at 440.

That would settle the debate.
Part of the absurdity of the idea is that somehow the "nicer patterns" are "more in tune with the universe" than the messier patterns. The "messy" patterns are no less "in tune with the universe," no less natural. The universe can't do something that's not natural or not in tune with it. It doesn't have preferences. It just is however it is, and that's the case with any pitch, any tuning system, it's possible to make/produce.

Humans have preferences. The world outside of humans does not.
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Old 19th June 2018
  #407
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UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
I mostly liked the video showing that 432 made nicer vibration null patterns on a metal sheet.

I'm no physicist, but I have a feeling that the resonance pattern is determined by the size, thickness, ductility and mass of the plate, rather than the specific frequency it's excited at, just as different acoustic guitar tops show different vibration patterns for the same note.

I'd imagine that, with the proper manipulation of the bottom thickness, one could make a plate that displays the devil's horns when excited at 440.

That would settle the debate.
Yup, just change the size of the plate and they will resonate at a different frequency.

The thing I don't get: There are quite a few videos with those plates resonating at 432 Hz (and multiples thereof). Are they ALL trolling? Or are they simply bozos following instructions and creating plates of a certain size while being completely oblivious to the fact they are building them specifically to resonate at 432 Hz? I'm not sure which is worse...

Alistair
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Old 19th June 2018
  #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Yup, just change the size of the plate and they will resonate at a different frequency.

The thing I don't get: There are quite a few videos with those plates resonating at 432 Hz (and multiples thereof). Are they ALL trolling? Or are they simply bozos following instructions and creating plates of a certain size while being completely oblivious to the fact they are building them specifically to resonate at 432 Hz? I'm not sure which is worse...

Alistair
Good question. I think that, given that metal plates are a manufactured item, maybe something common like 6x6 or 12X12 just happens to make a nice pattern at 432.


I'd be much more impressed by, say, evidence that a majority of acoustic guitar tops have a more coherent resonance pattern at multiples of 432 than of 440. Haven't seen it though.
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Old 19th June 2018
  #409
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You can find all kinds of cool resonantion patterns at different frequencies depending on the mediums being used:



A different size sheet, denser material, thicker/thinner, etc etc and the patterns would all happen at different freq's.
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Old 24th June 2018
  #410
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Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
I know what CHS is...it's not a side effect, it's technically a clinical condition.

Like anything, weed ain't for everybody, and if anyone develops Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome, that would be an obvious tell tale sign. But, that doesn't mean that all chronic users will suffer from that condition. Not by a long shot.

Same with psychosis - there is a set percentage of the population that possibly have a predisposition for it, and AFAIK, there's conjecture whether it's absolutely a genetic component or whether environmental factors weigh in. There's still conjecture on how much weed affects that (though there does seem to be clinical evidence that abuse at early ages can have serious deleterious effects for those with such predispositions)

Ultimately, whether it be pot or booze, or anything, its usage should be up to the prerogative of the individual...sure, as much objective info should be available and accessible, but it's up to each person to be wise about it. Judiciousness and mindfulness can't be dictated, unless we want to live in a draconian or nanny state.

I hate to think we should be in a society where we can't make decisions on our own, however stupid or harmful it may be. (though I am in favor of consumer protection bureaus, and oversight of corporate entities, etc - things like that, as well as civil liberties unions and govt watchdog agencies).
High amounts of THC in cannabis is linked to CHS, anyone who ingests potent cannabis on a regular basis can develop CHS. If you do your research you'll discover that no one knows exactly what causes it yet, but they do know cannabis users ingesting higher THC amounts are more prone to develop the condition, so technically it is a side-effect of higher THC ingestion from cannabis. In due time, it will be documented as such.

As far as psychosis goes, all you have to do is watch a few Joe Rogan podcasts to see how delusional he can be-and he started smoking weed in his 30's, so it doesn't matter what age you start- strong weed messes with your mind, and not always in a good way, whether stoners want to admit it or not. Like I said, get ready for more doses of reality in the next few years as they discover more about the plant.
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Old 24th June 2018
  #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
As far as psychosis goes, all you have to do is watch a few Joe Rogan podcasts to see how delusional he can be-and he started smoking weed in his 30's, so it doesn't matter what age you start- strong weed messes with your mind, and not always in a good way, whether stoners want to admit it or not.
This "reasoning" requires one to be high on more than marijuana. . . the only thing Joe Rogan's postcasts demonstrate is that Joe Rogan will say crazy stuff in his podcasts. Plenty of "out there" people who don't use weed, and plenty of "within the typical range" people who do.
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Old 24th June 2018
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
Given their propensity to cherry pick or fabricate data to support their preconceived opinions? No, thank you. Leave them to argue something obviously meaningless rather than creating the next autism/vaccine conspiracy theory, thank you very much.
Ha yep. Another "containment" scenario lol. The "analog vs digital" gearslutz thread for the world.
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Old 24th June 2018
  #413
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You don't need to get esoteric to enjoy tuning to 432. If you want to believe the third reich changed it, I don't see how it matters. Does it sound good for your song or not?

I've written some songs using old sound modules tuning them down like this and virtual instruments and they sounded great, but it didn't sound great for everything. It's fun to even **** around with arbitrary tuning of digital stuff because it's easy. Sometimes I try things at 432 just to get a slightly darker vibe.

It's fun to experiment and you don't need to be into conspiracies or against them to enjoy different tunings.

Just do what sounds good to you and have fun ffs.
Old 24th June 2018
  #414
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
High amounts of THC in cannabis is linked to CHS, anyone who ingests potent cannabis on a regular basis can develop CHS. If you do your research you'll discover that no one knows exactly what causes it yet, but they do know cannabis users ingesting higher THC amounts are more prone to develop the condition, so technically it is a side-effect of higher THC ingestion from cannabis. In due time, it will be documented as such.

As far as psychosis goes, all you have to do is watch a few Joe Rogan podcasts to see how delusional he can be-and he started smoking weed in his 30's, so it doesn't matter what age you start- strong weed messes with your mind, and not always in a good way, whether stoners want to admit it or not. Like I said, get ready for more doses of reality in the next few years as they discover more about the plant.
I already addressed your apparently superficial grasp of what little science there is that is suggestive of the syndromes you cite in this post: Why don't we switch to 432Hz tuning?

I'd be happy to consider any well-designed and responsibly performed research you find, but, until then, YOU need to stop talking as though these were known factors supported by hard science.
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Old 24th June 2018
  #415
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It would seem to me that if you just have a hankerin' to abandon the standard A=440 thang, just tune to whereever ya like it...

...Then measure it LATER (if you're curious).
.
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Old 24th June 2018
  #416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnalia Barcus View Post
Just think if the 432Hz advocates would apply their brainpower to something that's not nonsense. There's certainly enough in the sciences to keep them entertained.


The problem, quite obviously, is that too many of these probably quite nice folks grab on to some little bits of what they believe may be pertinent data and, with little or no further investigation, with little or no logical rigor, end up concocting personal hypotheses they vest personal belief in as 'fact.'
Old 24th June 2018
  #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
The problem, quite obviously, is that too many of these probably quite nice folks grab on to one little bit of what they believe may be pertinent data and, with little or no further investigation, with little or no logical rigor, end up concocting personal hypotheses they vest personal belief in as 'fact.'
...Well yeah, there's a lotta that sorta thing goin' around these days...
.
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Old 24th June 2018
  #418
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
It would seem to me that if you just have a hankerin' to abandon the standard A=440 thang, just tune to whereever ya like it...

...Then measure it LATER (if you're curious).
.
And why not? Once you're de-yoked from the various standards, you are then free to use what works with your personal 'resonances.'
Old 24th June 2018
  #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
And why not? Once you're de-yoked from the various standards, you are then free to use what works with your personal 'resonances.'
Sure makes more sense than "dancing to architecture".
.
Old 24th June 2018
  #420
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
...Well yeah, there's a lotta that sorta thing goin' around these days...
.
Maybe it's a phase of personal development and maturity.

I hope I can be forgiven some personal musing: I went through an everything you know is wrong phase at the end of the 1960s and into the 70s as I entered my 20s. And, to be frank, there was an enormous amount of BS going around in the commercial, popular, and, especially, political cultures. One of the few things I didn't really lose faith in was the Scientific Method, even though I often found myself skeptical of some widely accepted notions arising from popular understanding/misunderstanding of the science (when any responsible, rigorous science in a given field of investigation even existed), as well as the corruption of applied science for personal profit.

I found that the way (for me) through the uncertainty was to double down on the importance of the rigor of the objective observation, measure, and logical analysis of real world phenomena, to cut through both wishful thinking (and like most humans, I did my share) and fear (I was a fearful kid; it almost killed me, emotionally; I decided as an adult to try to transcend those often deeply compelling fears). I feel like the effort was the beginning of a sort of mature understanding of my place in the universe that has been both personally 'centering' and even, in an odd and 'timeless' sort of way, comforting.
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