The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Why don't we switch to 432Hz tuning? Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 25th May 2018
  #301
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
The Ancients Romans did something very much like this. Each day has 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of night. The length of the hours varied with the seasons.
Love it! We should really tamper more with our arbitrary measures of time, just to make it obvious how arbitrary they are. Of course we’d need a scientific measure of time as well, but it shouldn’t be so absurdly geocentric.
Old 25th May 2018
  #302
Lives for gear
 
12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
The Ancients Romans did something very much like this. Each day has 12 hours of daylight and 12 hours of night. The length of the hours varied with the seasons.
So lets bring back sundials!

...Oh, wait a second (approximately).
.
4
Share
Old 25th May 2018
  #303
Lives for gear
 
robert82's Avatar
"Everyone knows that time isn't really real
It's just your point of view
How does it feel for you?

Einstein said he could never understand it all -
Planets spinnin' through space
A smile upon your face
Welcome to the human race
Isn't it a lovely ride"


J.T.
Old 25th May 2018
  #304
Lives for gear
 
teleharmonium's Avatar
 

440 sounds better when you tune it according to vintage 1950-52 seconds, when they were defined by the consensus of a group of quartz crystal oscillator clocks. The hell with this atomic BS, it's too harsh and peaky.
8
Share
Old 25th May 2018
  #305
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by teleharmonium View Post
440 sounds better when you tune it according to vintage 1950-52 seconds, when they were defined by the consensus of a group of quartz crystal oscillator clocks. The hell with this atomic BS, it's too harsh and peaky.
Haha.

Thing is time itself is relative to the available energy at any given location to begin with. Its not even a constant.

Einstein's theory of relativity becomes measurable at airplane altitudes vs the ground. The lessened gravitational pull at higher altitudes means time moves faster there.

If you take two sync'd atomic clocks, take one to a high enough altitude for several hours, and bring it back, they won't be in sync! Because the gravitational energy being used up on the ground means time moves a bit slower there, less energy is available for time.

We're talking about a massive decimal point difference when it comes to airplane altitude vs ground, but still, that little of a gravitational difference = atomic clocks no longer in sync. Go to a planet with heavy gravitational energy at play (IE Interstellar) and time moves way slower there. 20 minutes at higher levels of gravitational energy can equal 20 years at zero gravity in space.

Wild stuff. 432 is entirely dependent not only on our chosen measurement of time, but the relative amount of energy being used up at this particular location in the Universe. The whole Star Wars "fly around the universe while time remains constant for everyone" is an impossibility due to the location-dependent energy variances found all over the universe in different ways. And any "Universe" claims associated with anything that has to do with time completely bunk.
Old 25th May 2018
  #306
Lives for gear
 
12ax7's Avatar
 

Hmmm..
...Come to think of it, why the hell has there never been any significant movement within the scientific community to "go metric" with our measurement of time?
...I mean like maybe base it upon some constant of the universe (like the hydrogen line or someting, for example) and then divide the resultant "day" into 100 "hours" with 100 "minutes" per "hour".
Surely one might be able to mathematically work it all out to where there were no longer any need for leap years (and so forth).
.
Old 29th May 2018
  #307
Lives for gear
 
norfolk martin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
Hmmm..
...Come to think of it, why the hell has there never been any significant movement within the scientific community to "go metric" with our measurement of time?
...I mean like maybe base it upon some constant of the universe (like the hydrogen line or someting, for example) and then divide the resultant "day" into 100 "hours" with 100 "minutes" per "hour".
Surely one might be able to mathematically work it all out to where there were no longer any need for leap years (and so forth).
.
well, Since 1967, the International System of Units (SI) has defined the second as the duration of 9192631770 cycles of radiation corresponding to the electrical transition between two energy levels of the caesium-133 atom.


I suppose that is sort of a natural constant, although 9192631770 is not an easy number to remember - Unless, perhaps, you think of it as a phone number?
Old 29th May 2018
  #308
Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
well, Since 1967, the International System of Units (SI) has defined the second as the duration of 9192631770 cycles of radiation corresponding to the electrical transition between two energy levels of the caesium-133 atom.


I suppose that is sort of a natural constant, although 9192631770 is not an easy number to remember - Unless, perhaps, you think of it as a phone number?


Not only that, it appears to be a phone number in Wake Forest, North Carolina...





[Please, be responsible. DO NOT dial it like an idiot watching a TV show before they made all the TV phone numbers start with 555. Seriously. Don't do it.]
1
Share
Old 29th May 2018
  #309
Lives for gear
 
12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
well, Since 1967, the International System of Units (SI) has defined the second as the duration of 9192631770 cycles of radiation corresponding to the electrical transition between two energy levels of the caesium-133 atom.


I suppose that is sort of a natural constant, although 9192631770 is not an easy number to remember - Unless, perhaps, you think of it as a phone number?
Well, yeah...

...But that's actually the opposite of what I suggested:

I wasn't talking about standardizing the unit that we now know as the "second".

I was talking about deriving a "NEW second" (call it whatever you want) from some natural constant of the universe.
1
Share
Old 29th May 2018
  #310
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
well, Since 1967, the International System of Units (SI) has defined the second as the duration of 9192631770 cycles of radiation corresponding to the electrical transition between two energy levels of the caesium-133 atom.


I suppose that is sort of a natural constant, although 9192631770 is not an easy number to remember - Unless, perhaps, you think of it as a phone number?
This would only be a constant here on Earth, relative to Earth.

The movement of time is relative to the available energy in any given area of the Universe, time is essentially where the leftover energy goes. If gravity/motion/etc are taking up energy, time moves forward at a different rate.

This is the relativity test I was talking about in my much more long winded post on this above: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafele–Keating_experiment

"General relativity predicts an additional effect, in which an increase in gravitational potential due to altitude speeds the clocks up. That is, clocks at higher altitude tick faster than clocks on Earth's surface."
1
Share
Old 29th May 2018
  #311
Lives for gear
 
norfolk martin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post


Not only that, it appears to be a phone number in Wake Forest, North Carolina...



[Please, be responsible. DO NOT dial it like an idiot watching a TV show before they made all the TV phone numbers start with 555. Seriously. Don't do it.]


Hello.....is that that the national time standards institute? may I speak with Mr Cesium Decay ?


Probably no worse than " is your refrigerator running" or the proverbial "Prince Albert in a can."
Old 29th May 2018
  #312
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Please, be responsible. DO NOT dial it like an idiot watching a TV show before they made all the TV phone numbers start with 555. Seriously. Don't do it.
This disclaimer means that there's a 200% certainty that this number will be dialed (meaning it'll happen at least twice lol).

One of the moves these days is to use an actual number with a voicemail message that plays into the part. They've wisened up from the 555 to add an interactivity element to it.
Old 29th May 2018
  #313
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
Well, yeah...

...But that's actually the opposite of what I suggested:

I wasn't talking about standardizing the unit that we now know as the "second".

I was talking about deriving a "NEW second" (call it whatever you want) from some natural constant of the universe.
I vote we call it "third" so that even though it might have a more rational base, it at least will have an absurd name.

Actually this was the theme of an old Monty Python episode but unfortunately no one ever saw it. It never got broadcasted as the TV stations didn't have tape decks that could handle time code in "thirds"...

Alistair
Old 29th May 2018
  #314
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
This is truth.

...However to be fair, at least (according to Stephen Hawking) the concept of integers is based upon "nature".

...And so while "432" can rendered (in binary) as "110110000", the actual integer itself is the same.

The problem is that we humans could just as easily have divided the "day" (a natural phenomenon) into 100 "hours" with 100 "seconds" per "hour". (...Or even 432, for that matter.)

Our measure of time is utterly arbitrary (and therefore so is the measurement we call "Hz").
Thought i felt i should add to this, that the name we gave it means nothing. The physical thing happening is still happening regardless the arbitration of say time as a definition. (Word)
Your feet will still get a tiny bit older because they are closer to the gravitationslag point of Tellus, (while standing up) and the head age a tiny bit slower, regardless if We call it time, or tulup napnap!
Old 29th May 2018
  #315
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregerlindberg View Post
Thought i felt i should add to this, that the name we gave it means nothing. The physical thing happening is still happening regardless the arbitration of say time as a definition. (Word)
Your feet will still get a tiny bit older because they are closer to the gravitationslag point of Tellus, (while standing up) and the head age a tiny bit slower, regardless if We call it time, or tulup napnap!
The point is that all these things being pointed out render the "Hz" measurement as something entirely arbitrary. Thus any "more natural" or "more universal" type claims make no sense at all in regards to Hz measurement.

I think this was actually established in this thread 145 pages back though, the "more natural" people have left, and the rest of us can't stop
Old 29th May 2018
  #316
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
The point is that all these things being pointed out render the "Hz" measurement as something entirely arbitrary. Thus any "more natural" or "more universal" type claims make no sense at all in regards to Hz measurement.
There are natural harmonic resonances, so you could potentially make an argument there. They won’t line up neatly with integers that have a structural mathematical appeal for the reasons oft-cited in this thread, though. They also tend to be more than a little outside of the range you’re going to reproduce with gear aimed at human hearing, at least at a molecular level where they are 100% uniform (carbon monoxide has a resonant frequency around 6.42x10^13 Hz.)

Larger structures can have more interesting resonant qualities in the audible range that you could make arguments for, but they’re also more individual. The classic “break a wine glass with sound” trick, for example, requires finding the right frequency for a particular glass. Individual humans almost certainly have similar variability in their response to audible stimulus, and again it will have nothing to do with the mathematical qualities of a particular integer.

Quote:
I think this was actually established in this thread 145 pages back though, the "more natural" people have left, and the rest of us can't stop
So it’s both an interesting intellectual exercise and an historic record of sorts, but not much of a debate.
2
Share
Old 30th May 2018
  #317
Gear Addict
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
The point is that all these things being pointed out render the "Hz" measurement as something entirely arbitrary. Thus any "more natural" or "more universal" type claims make no sense at all in regards to Hz measurement.

I think this was actually established in this thread 145 pages back though, the "more natural" people have left, and the rest of us can't stop

Haha! U probably Right on that one!
I just went philosophical and rhetorical! :D
They wont make sense i think in the term of Hz.
But i got a few guitars and tuned two of them differently. Playing the same song.
It got a little different feel.
Sure it is slightly lower, But being used to tune stuff down to get it more heavy didnt turn out lower, just kinda more pleasent.
Well.. interresting play with Hz!
Back to caressing Bronze on some vocals!
Old 30th May 2018
  #318
The goal of 432 is to plant the seeds of divinity rather than discontinuity, karma is the driver of 432. The quantum matrix is electrified with tones and it is time to take tuning to the next level.

We are at a crossroads of fulfillment and bondage, throughout history, humans have been interacting with the intonation via supercharged electrons and harmony has always been full of adventurers whose auras are engulfed in musical flow.

Although you may not realize it, you are unrestricted, have you found your perfect cadence? How should you navigate this archetypal quantum musical cycle? 432!

It is a sign of things to come, the future will be an enlightened awakening of vibration. The harmonizing of melody is now happening worldwide.

We are in the midst of a perennial summoning of curiosity that will be a gateway to the harmonic grid itself because synchronicity is the birth of inseparability, and of us. We exist as ultra-sentient frequencies, musical coherence requires exploration.

Who are we? Where on the great quest will we be reharmonized ourselves? Our conversations with other dreamers have led to an awakening of ultra-zero-point consciousness. Humankind has nothing to lose.

Or something like that.
4
Share
Old 30th May 2018
  #319
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratblue View Post
The goal of 432 is to plant the seeds of divinity rather than discontinuity, karma is the driver of 432. The quantum matrix is electrified with tones and it is time to take tuning to the next level.

We are at a crossroads of fulfillment and bondage, throughout history, humans have been interacting with the intonation via supercharged electrons and harmony has always been full of adventurers whose auras are engulfed in musical flow.

Although you may not realize it, you are unrestricted, have you found your perfect cadence? How should you navigate this archetypal quantum musical cycle? 432!

It is a sign of things to come, the future will be an enlightened awakening of vibration. The harmonizing of melody is now happening worldwide.

We are in the midst of a perennial summoning of curiosity that will be a gateway to the harmonic grid itself because synchronicity is the birth of inseparability, and of us. We exist as ultra-sentient frequencies, musical coherence requires exploration.

Who are we? Where on the great quest will we be reharmonized ourselves? Our conversations with other dreamers have led to an awakening of ultra-zero-point consciousness. Humankind has nothing to lose.

Or something like that.
Please my friend, you must share whatever you're smoking or ingesting!

Whatever it is, it'll mightly enhance my lackluster and otherwise prosaic interactions I have with my chosen path of 440.
3
Share
Old 30th May 2018
  #320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
...So it’s both an interesting intellectual exercise and an historic record of sorts, but not much of a debate.
Unfortunately many of the threads turn into two independent echo tanks with broken send controls and set to full feedback to ensure self-oscillation.
Old 30th May 2018
  #321
Lives for gear
 
norfolk martin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stratblue View Post
The goal of 432 is to plant the seeds of divinity rather than discontinuity, karma is the driver of 432. The quantum matrix is electrified with tones and it is time to take tuning to the next level.

We are at a crossroads of fulfillment and bondage, throughout history, humans have been interacting with the intonation via supercharged electrons and harmony has always been full of adventurers whose auras are engulfed in musical flow.

Although you may not realize it, you are unrestricted, have you found your perfect cadence? How should you navigate this archetypal quantum musical cycle? 432!

It is a sign of things to come, the future will be an enlightened awakening of vibration. The harmonizing of melody is now happening worldwide.

We are in the midst of a perennial summoning of curiosity that will be a gateway to the harmonic grid itself because synchronicity is the birth of inseparability, and of us. We exist as ultra-sentient frequencies, musical coherence requires exploration.

Who are we? Where on the great quest will we be reharmonized ourselves? Our conversations with other dreamers have led to an awakening of ultra-zero-point consciousness. Humankind has nothing to lose.

Or something like that.
Ohhhh.......that's nice. I used to live at No. 432 Wellington terrace. When we moved to No. 440 the roof leaked, and I thought that was quite significant. I have often said to myself "Martin, when are you going to get some of that ultra-zero-point consciousness?"

I hope Medicare/ the National Health Service covers it......
Old 30th May 2018
  #322
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

So none of you looked up Lyndon LaRouche, huh?

I guess the saying is true, you can lead a horse to water....
Old 30th May 2018
  #323
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
There are natural harmonic resonances, so you could potentially make an argument there. They won’t line up neatly with integers that have a structural mathematical appeal for the reasons oft-cited in this thread, though. They also tend to be more than a little outside of the range you’re going to reproduce with gear aimed at human hearing, at least at a molecular level where they are 100% uniform (carbon monoxide has a resonant frequency around 6.42x10^13 Hz.)

Larger structures can have more interesting resonant qualities in the audible range that you could make arguments for, but they’re also more individual. The classic “break a wine glass with sound” trick, for example, requires finding the right frequency for a particular glass. Individual humans almost certainly have similar variability in their response to audible stimulus, and again it will have nothing to do with the mathematical qualities of a particular integer.
.
The rationality behind 432 has to do with the convenience of whole Hz numbers though. Which is an arbitrary human construct and a non-constant universal construct, and has to do with human laziness (or convenience, depending on how you frame it) for those who have to mathematically write out and measure and caluculate Hz tunings in some way, more than anything else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_pitch

Scientific pitch is not used by concert orchestras but is still sometimes favored in scientific writings for the convenience of all the octaves of C being an exact round number in the binary system when expressed in hertz (symbol Hz).[1][2] The octaves of C remain a whole number in Hz all the way down to 1 Hz in both binary and decimal counting systems.[3][4] Instead of A above middle C (A4) being set to the widely used standard of 440 Hz, scientific pitch assigns it a frequency of 430.54 Hz.[5]

In 1988, Lyndon LaRouche's Schiller Institute initiated a campaign to establish scientific pitch as the classical music concert pitch standard. The Institute called this pitch "Verdi tuning" because of the connection to the famous composer.[10] Even though Verdi tuning uses 432 Hz for A4 and not 430.54, it is said by the Schiller Institute to be derived from the same mathematical basis: 256 Hz for middle C.[11]


Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
So none of you looked up Lyndon LaRouche, huh?

I guess the saying is true, you can lead a horse to water....
He's the 1970s-80s version of Hannity. . a long history of muddy waters and disinformation in exchange for money and attention.
1
Share
Old 30th May 2018
  #324
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

newguy1 - exactly. And him and his Schiller Institute are the people who cooked this up decades ago!
1
Share
Old 30th May 2018
  #325
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 

Though I might compare him more to a mix of Alex Jones, Benedict Arnold and David Koresh.
1
Share
Old 30th May 2018
  #326
Lives for gear
 
robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 View Post
So none of you looked up Lyndon LaRouche, huh?

I guess the saying is true, you can lead a horse to water....
Looked him up. Ran for prez a number of times. Believes only classical music played in C=256 Hz Verdi tuning can bring about a new political and cultural renaissance. And that the Beatles were part of a British monarchical conspiracy to wreck the minds of young people. Maybe he should run . . . just one more time.
1
Share
Old 30th May 2018
  #327
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert82 View Post
Looked him up. Ran for prez a number of times. Believes only classical music played in C=256 Hz Verdi tuning can bring about a new political and cultural renaissance. And that the Beatles were part of a British monarchical conspiracy to wreck the minds of young people. Maybe he should run . . . just one more time.
He'd bring some sanity to the world these days Talk about relativity.
Old 30th May 2018
  #328
Lives for gear
 
12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
In 1988, Lyndon LaRouche's Schiller Institute initiated a campaign to establish scientific pitch as the classical music concert pitch standard. The Institute called this pitch "Verdi tuning" because of the connection to the famous composer.[10] Even though Verdi tuning uses 432 Hz for A4 and not 430.54, it is said by the Schiller Institute to be derived from the same mathematical basis: 256 Hz for middle C.[11] [/I]



He's the 1970s-80s version of Hannity. . a long history of muddy waters and disinformation in exchange for money and attention.
Hannity is a calculative, duplicitous, opportunistic scumbag of the highest order.

LaRouche OTOH, is a wacko, pure and simple. A nutjob who make other nutjobs and wingnuts seem relatively sane.

Quote:
LaRouche abhors popular music; he said in 1980, "Rock was not an accidental thing. This was done by people who set out in a deliberate way to subvert the United States. It was done by British intelligence," and wrote that the Beatles were "a product shaped according to British Psychological Warfare Division specifications."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_LaRouche
2
Share
Old 30th May 2018
  #329
Lives for gear
 
robert82's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
LaRouche OTOH, is a wacko, pure and simple. A nutjob who make other nutjobs and wingnuts seem relatively sane.
And by today's standards, well within an acceptable range of reality choices.
3
Share
Old 30th May 2018
  #330
Lives for gear
 
12ax7's Avatar
 

Hmmm...
...Ol' Heinrich must be just tuning over in his grave by about now...
.
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump