The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
My 'critique' of Wag's 'When In Rome'
Old 27th March 2017
  #1
Lives for gear
 
Herr Weiss's Avatar
 

My 'critique' of Wag's 'When In Rome'



As I am unfairly banned from the "Post Your Rough Demos' thread, I decided to give my opinion anyway. I do hope I am not breaking any 'rules' now.

https://soundcloud.com/steven-wagenh...gman-on-backup


I really love the melody!!

I am a 'melody' fanatic and it takes me seconds to decide if I like something or not. This one is a winner!!

I want to apologiize to Wag for being a thorn in his side for many a moon. I was wrong!! Life is very short to nurse grudges.

If this thread does not 'magically' disappear and if I am not allowed to go back to the"Post Your Demos' thread, I guess I will be doing my 'critiques' from here.


~HW
Old 27th March 2017
  #2
Lives for gear
 

This is a noticeable step up from a year or so ago, can tell you're passionate and driven and putting in long hours focused on improving. Good stuff man. Needs some sub to rumble the body and lower mid-frequencies to give it a bit more weight (which is probably just a bit of distortion on the sub to give it those 200hz-ish harmonics, or an actual live bass guitar or sample which are full of harmonics), but production is a step up too

I still think if you can just find ONE decent singer to work with on a consistent basis you'd have an act on your hands instead of a set of demo tracks. The vocaloid plugin asks for a lot of leeway from its listeners. I know that's all you have right now though.
Old 27th March 2017
  #3
Lives for gear
 
horseface's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
The vocaloid plugin asks for a lot of leeway from its listeners.
This is the root of the thing. I try to hear the music and that robot vocal instantly communicates some things beyond the music itself - outsiderness and somehow humorous and completely frightening at the same time. With a touch of sadness. Vocaloid is more expensive than a microphone and inferior to any real human voice. Just what is going on? What kind of sad choice is it to choose a robot over a real person?

It gets in the way of the music and just leaves me sad and confused.
Old 28th March 2017
  #4
Lives for gear
oh yea i remember from like a year ago, that other song now, because it's the same kind of sound....that other song sounded like japanese electronic/rock music, this one, i think sounds more 80s Russian disco music, a slight difference, but you can tell there is something in common with both.
it's like this song i posted to the 80s thread


i can get a sense of the same musical personality behind both. so that is what you need to nurture and develop, is that uniqueness, and not worry about being mainstream "pop". just stay passionate and keep improving as a musician an producer.
Old 28th March 2017
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseface View Post
This is the root of the thing. I try to hear the music and that robot vocal instantly communicates some things beyond the music itself - outsiderness and somehow humorous and completely frightening at the same time. With a touch of sadness. Vocaloid is more expensive than a microphone and inferior to any real human voice. Just what is going on? What kind of sad choice is it to choose a robot over a real person?

It gets in the way of the music and just leaves me sad and confused.
Wag is emphatic that his singing voice is crap. I've had my turn at him too, but he refuses to entertain the notion that he can sing at all.

I tend to agree with you however. The robovocals do indeed leave one feeling very cold, and are the primary distraction from many of Wags otherwise interesting compositions.

I have always thought that an individual can find a way to frame their voice, just like Bob Dylan or Neil Young successfully did. Neither of those guys can carry a tune in a bucket, and their timbre is just this side of awful, but I have bought and own recordings by them both nonetheless - because for all of the shortcomings that I enumerated - they're still flipping good entertainment.

Last edited by johnny nowhere; 28th March 2017 at 01:04 PM.. Reason: Clarity. And font. Cranky about that font.
Old 28th March 2017
  #6
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
there's a certain paradoxical authenticity in that a computer trying to be a robot human is often less specious than a human trying to be a robot. the tragedy is more successfully underscored by the feeling that though the computer might never be human, the human might eventually become robot.

without going into it, I think there's always been a relationship between submission and love. but not the kind of submission people often think of and not the kind of submission that is in the abstract, nor one which is against ones own will.

I always liked Mr Hopkinsons Computer cover of Fake Plastic Trees but sounds like Wag has actually achieved an original which engenders all these paradoxes because of his striving. a seemingly perfect execution is not really anything to do with Art. that's only to do with skills and it doesn't mean the Art will even benefit from it.
Old 28th March 2017
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny nowhere View Post
I have always thought that an individual can find a way to frame their voice, just like Bob Dylan or Neil Young successfully did. Neither of those guys can carry a tune in a bucket, and their timbre is just this side of awful, but I have bought and own recordings by them both nonetheless - because for all of the shortcomings that I enumerated - they're still flipping good entertainment.[/FONT]
This works when the whole sound is humanized and loose, an acoustic guitar or live band performance. When every single sound in the track is fine tuned to be flawless, the Bob Dylan approach doesn't work so well. You actually have to be able to sing above a certain level, or else auto-tune, or else swamp yourself with FX (which is not a pop music move), or the production doesn't sound congruent.
Old 28th March 2017
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by newguy1 View Post
This works when the whole sound is humanized and loose, an acoustic guitar or live band performance. When every single sound in the track is fine tuned to be flawless, the Bob Dylan approach doesn't work so well. You actually have to be able to sing above a certain level, or else auto-tune, or else swamp yourself with FX (which is not a pop music move), or the production doesn't sound congruent.
And therein lies the rub. I honestly think that there is probably a place for Wag's vocals, but not in context perhaps, of the work he is doing. I would think that most of us who do our own vocals have to make a conscious sacrifice in almost every line that we sing, that is to say, we'd all like to sound just a little bit better than we do. Such is life.
Old 30th March 2017
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Unclenny's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny nowhere View Post
I would think that most of us who do our own vocals have to make a conscious sacrifice in almost every line that we sing, that is to say, we'd all like to sound just a little bit better than we do. Such is life.
Ah.....but once we are able to embrace our inherent vocal limitations it all gets much easier and much more satisfying. That's also when we start to get accused of having "unique character".

Old 30th March 2017
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unclenny View Post
Ah.....but once we are able to embrace our inherent vocal limitations it all gets much easier and much more satisfying. That's also when we start to get accused of having "unique character".

The place where embracing our limitations and letting them go become one and the same.
Old 2nd December 2018
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Herr Weiss's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
I want to apologize to Wag for being a thorn in his side for many a moon. I was wrong!! Life is very short to nurse grudges.
Hey Wag, when are YOU going to accept MY apology???


~HW
Old 26th February 2019
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Herr Weiss's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herr Weiss View Post
Hey Wag, when are YOU going to accept MY apology???


~HW

I AM WAITING
Old 27th February 2019
  #13
Gear Addict
 

I don't understand why you were banned, Herr Weiss. I follow those threads and I just don't see it. From my perspective, it was either ban three or four of you, including Wag, for arguing OT and getting personal about it, or ban none of you.
Old 27th February 2019
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Unrequited boomer beef is some tasty stuff
Old 27th February 2019
  #15
Gear Guru
I actually think it's cool that people would give my music enough of a listen to be critical......

I thought Stephen Hawking's vocoder voice was really cool in "A Brief History of Time".....Singing not so much, (except HAL singing "Daisy" in 2001).
Bob Dylan has made a career of basically making his voice iconic. Interesting subject......
Old 17th March 2019
  #16
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
I AM WAITING
And I'm still waiting for a thank you for all the arrangement tips I shared with him. For me, that thread is dead. The moderators (who haven't responded to me and probably never will) should just rename it the "Wag Support Group" and be done with it.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump