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What key is this song in
Old 23rd January 2016
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
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What key is this song in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ6sfl3O3BI


Please help me get the key n bassline
Old 23rd January 2016
  #2
Lives for gear
Bbm according to Mixvibes Key Detect. It's usually right, but can't swear to it!
Old 23rd January 2016
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Owen L T's Avatar
The chords are:

||:Bb-7 \ G-7 \ | C-7 \ F7 \:||

(So the bassline is hitting Bb, G, C, F.)

That probably does make it in the key of Bb minor, making the loop a i-iii-iv-V - I find it a little hard to say for certain what the 'key' is in these kind of loops, which never really resolve anywhere. But for sure those are the chords - on which, doubtless, there will be various inversions throughout the track.
Old 27th January 2016
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
SOUND BOMBING's Avatar
 

How do u play it? On my bass bmin doesn't sound as dark as the recording
Old 27th January 2016
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
SOUND BOMBING's Avatar
 

Those are the only 4 notes to play on the bass?
Old 27th January 2016
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Funk View Post
Bbm according to Mixvibes Key Detect. It's usually right, but can't swear to it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUND BOMBING View Post
Those are the only 4 notes to play on the bass?
Check my post
Old 7th February 2016
  #7
Old 7th February 2016
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Owen L T's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nspaas View Post
Cm.
There is a Cm chord in there, but that's NOT the key of the song. The chords given in my post are correct, and the Bb minor key center given in both mine and the other answer are also correct.
Old 7th February 2016
  #9
Respectfully disagree.

The tonal center of the melody in relation to the chord progression is C.

Last edited by nspaas; 8th February 2016 at 04:20 AM.. Reason: clarity
Old 8th February 2016
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
Mike.r's Avatar
Well I can very well play the F minor pentatonic to it. :P
Old 8th February 2016
  #11
Old 8th February 2016
  #12
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Owen L T's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nspaas View Post
Respectfully disagree.

The tonal center of the melody in relation to the chord progression is C.
Curious to hear your reasoning.

Mine is (a) the progression starts on the Bb min 7th (the starting chord being one of the first places to check for a key center); and (b) it ends on the F dominant 7th chord, which resolves back to the Bb min again (being the 5th chord).

Any particular reason for choosing the 3rd chord of the progression as being its 'tonal center'? (Which, by dint of it's being there in the middle of the progression, almost by definition rules it out at as being the key of the song.)
Old 8th February 2016
  #13
Old 8th February 2016
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Owen L T's Avatar
Exactly: the verse is in F# minor, which is also the first chord of the progression, and then modulates to C#minor for the chorus.

Not sure how that relates to this song, which is a totally different progression, with the chords I've outlined above.

As far as I know, I gave a complete and accurate answer to the OP. I'm genuinely curious to know the musical theory behind your correction.
Old 8th February 2016
  #15
All my loving is in E Maj mate.
Old 10th July 2016
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
SOUND BOMBING's Avatar
 

Any updates on this?
Old 10th July 2016
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
SOUND BOMBING's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike.r View Post
Well I can very well play the F minor pentatonic to it. :P
The first person i ever askdd said f minor years ago
Old 10th July 2016
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
not like this's Avatar
 

Hello... I've never posted in this section of gearslutz before but it's in Bb Dorian.

(Bb C Db Eb F G Ab)

Chords given in this thread were close, but it's a G7 not a G-7.

Chord analysis would look like this.

i-7 | V7/ii | ii-7 | V7

The G7 is considered a secondary dominant. You would want to play a G7 arpeggio or more accurately a G Mixolydian (b9, #9 , b13) but in reality the song moves way too fast for that, so just play a G7 arpeggio for soloing

Hope this helps!
Old 11th July 2016
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
SOUND BOMBING's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by not like this View Post
Hello... I've never posted in this section of gearslutz before but it's in Bb Dorian.

(Bb C Db Eb F G Ab)

Chords given in this thread were close, but it's a G7 not a G-7.

Chord analysis would look like this.

i-7 | V7/ii | ii-7 | V7

The G7 is considered a secondary dominant. You would want to play a G7 arpeggio or more accurately a G Mixolydian (b9, #9 , b13) but in reality the song moves way too fast for that, so just play a G7 arpeggio for soloing

Hope this helps!
So the notes on the bass were the ones you named? Can you work with me on my theory?
Old 11th July 2016
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
not like this's Avatar
 

The chord progression is:
Bb-7 G7 C-7 F7

The scale this chord progression comes from is Bb Dorian with the exception being that G7 chord. That chord is a called a secondary dominant. If you were improvising over this chord progression, you'd need to adapt the notes you play over that chord.

In regards to your last question, yes I do training for music theory & songwriting, but I'm not here to advertise my services. If you're interested in becoming a student, you can message me directly.

Good luck! Cool tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUND BOMBING View Post
So the notes on the bass were the ones you named? Can you work with me on my theory?
Old 16th July 2016
  #21
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by nspaas View Post
Respectfully disagree.

The tonal center of the melody in relation to the chord progression is C.
I 100% agree that this song is in C minor.

This is a trick song .. they have intentionally kept the suspense going. I thought they might resolve it right at the end, but they just use a fade out.

This is very clever songwriting - I think it's a measure of success if musicians can argue over what key its in ... not boring is good.

The reason I think this is in C minor is simply that where I 'feel' it comes home, but it never stays there for long, so I can understand why this is confusing.

Just imagine you were to play this song and then a big cheesy outro and end up on a chord that gives the maximum resolution of tension ... I would end up on a Cm for sure. Leaving in on the Fm would feel unresolved to me ...

I doubt the writers worried to much about what they did ... I'm sure they would have felt it was in C minor, and took some delight in making sure they never resolved this. But that's just me projecting.
Old 16th July 2016
  #22
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by nspaas View Post
All my loving is in E Maj mate.
Again, you are 100% correct - and i'm baffled that anybody would think to disagree with you.

There somes to be perhaps a mistaken belief that the key that song is in is the first chord that is played. That is not true, and obviously you understand this but it seems many others don't.

All my loving is a good example because it is similar to the OP song in question.

All my loving clearly resolves with a normal cadence. "and i'll send all my loving to YOU" ... bring it on home to E major on the 'You'. To any guitar player, it's a no brainer that this song is in E.

The OP song never resolves this with a normal cadence, which keeps it perpetually in suspense. But in the same way that All my loving is clearly in E, that song is clearly in Cm.

I think too much theory can lead you wrong ... music has to be felt. I would struggle to explain the theory of why some songs are in the key they are in ... but as a guitar player I can strum the chords and just know when I have resolved to the root chord or not ... easier felt than explained.
Old 16th July 2016
  #23
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike.r View Post
Well I can very well play the F minor pentatonic to it. :P
C minor pentatonic works a treat too.
Old 16th July 2016
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
not like this's Avatar
 

Google "secondary dominant".

The song is in Bb Dorian.

Sometimes you know just enough theory to be dangerous or confuse yourself into thinking theory gets in the way.
Old 16th July 2016
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not like this View Post
Sometimes you know just enough theory to be dangerous or confuse yourself into thinking theory gets in the way.

You sound like Confucius.



~HW
Old 16th July 2016
  #26
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen L T View Post
The chords are:

||:Bb-7 \ G-7 \ | C-7 \ F7 \:||

(So the bassline is hitting Bb, G, C, F.)

That probably does make it in the key of Bb minor, making the loop a i-iii-iv-V - I find it a little hard to say for certain what the 'key' is in these kind of loops, which never really resolve anywhere. But for sure those are the chords - on which, doubtless, there will be various inversions throughout the track.
I respectfully disagree with you choice of chords.

I've been jamming over it, and the chords that work best for this are:

Bbm7 G7 Cm F7

I think this chord sequence is intentionally a trick which is sort of like the Barber Pole optical illusion ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barberpole_illusion

I could almost argue that this is a sequence that gives the illusion of constantly modulating keys ... so perhaps it could be said that this song is constantly modulating between Bbm and Cm. If you think about this, this would be a classic way to modulate up a whole step from Bbm to Cm.

However, the Bbm part of the sequence really works best as Bbm7 - and it's that 7th note that makes it not fully resolve, and why I 'feel' more satifaction when it hits the Cm.

I agree this is tricky and a bit of rule breaker ... I like this chord sequence a lot. The song will never make my top 100, but this is a good trick.
Old 16th July 2016
  #27
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by not like this View Post
Google "secondary dominant".

The song is in Bb Dorian.

Sometimes you know just enough theory to be dangerous or confuse yourself into thinking theory gets in the way.
You said above it's in Bb Dorian "except for the G7" ... so it's not, is it?

Let's be honest here. And while you are at it - being honest that is - you say you are not here to promote your music theory business, so why the hell do you even mention it? ... hmmm?

Anyways ... for practical purposes, musicians I associate with do not use the Mode names to describe Keys. We just want to know what Key the song is in, meaning one of the 12 root notes, and whether it's a major or minor. Once we have establish that the rhythm section is going to play in a paricular key, the soloists can play whatever scale they like over the top, more or less.

So I do not accept that this song is in Bb Dorian for those two reasons.

For me, it's in Cm. I would also accept that it constantly modulates between Bbm7 and Cm. So I could almost accept that it modulates between Bbm and Cm, but really - it's in Cm.

Luckily - intellectual debates like this have nothing to do with writing, playing, feeling and recording music .... so I have limited time for theory. It's a learning tool ... like trainer wheels on a bike. Some people never need it.
Old 18th July 2016
  #28
Lives for gear
I don't hear any Db's (in the music or vocal melody) until the chorus also the bassline at the chorus changes to Db on 1, so I think both people are kinda right.

I hear it as-

Verse

|Ab/Bb | G+7 |Cm9 |F13|

Then the Chorus is-

|Dbmaj7 |G+7 |Cm9 |F13|

The Db at the chorus is a bit of a suprise...which means it did *feel* like Cm to me before then.

When the song starts the keys are (notes) Bb-Bb-Eb-F and I think the LH is on Eb and Ab (a little hard to tell with that washy rhodes sound). So it's a sus or Ab6/Bb or whatever, then it changes a little when the groove starts (sounds like Fm7/Bb to me voiced Eb-F-Ab-C in the RH)

This is one of those groves like Cm9 to Bbm9 that isn't really in any stable *key*. The D natural works over any of the Cm9 to F13 parts, but the chorus starts on a Db so....
Old 28th February 2017
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
SOUND BOMBING's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nspaas View Post
Respectfully disagree.

The tonal center of the melody in relation to the chord progression is C.
So on the bass guitar what notes do i play?
Old 1st March 2017
  #30
Lives for gear
For the most part the bassline is just on the roots and 5ths of the chords, with the little chromatic walk ups-

|Bb F Bb |G G(hi) Bb Bnat |C C(hi) C | F F Ab Anat|

Then the Chorus is more held out

|Db | G Bb Bnat | C | F Ab Anat|


Always the Bb Bnat and Ab Anat are the last 2 8th notes leading up to the next chord.
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