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Tape Emulation - fatso, 5042, ats 1
Old 18th July 2015 | Show parent
  #61
A lowly Behringer piece beats the Neve 542s. That's interesting and I don't doubt it. Every on line sample I've heard of the 542s were so subtle I kept thinking ...$1500 a pair for that? Plus the cost of a 500 rack? No thanks.
Old 18th July 2015
  #62
Deleted 1846071
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Post clips of the Behringer. I'm interested.
Old 19th July 2015 | Show parent
  #63
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lobsterinn's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 1846071 View Post
Post clips of the Behringer. I'm interested.
Please do. I'm not doubting that it is useful...I'm just not convinced tape emulation was what the OP was after.
Old 19th July 2015 | Show parent
  #64
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monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmedek View Post
I know you're looking for hardware, but couldn't resist pointing out the UAD Ampex ATR102 plugin. I have a Fatso, but use the Ampex plug for everything I thought I would use the Fatso for. The Fatso does cool things (love its compression on bass, percussion, and acoustic gtrs) but I find that as a saturator or a tape sim it sounds less pleasant the harder it's pushed.
Agreed. I know the thread is basically over but the UAD Ampex is pretty spectacular. It's the first tape plugin I've tried that impresses me, or seems authentic in any way at all. I'm using it all the time now. Worth the price of admission, especially on the bi-annual sale events. I just feel so confident with this plug where many others in the past left me with wishy-washy feelings. You can be subtle with it, or over the top, even stereo widening and delay effects are possible. The presets are very much usable. It's easy to tweak. UA nailed it.
Old 20th July 2015 | Show parent
  #65
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Yeah, the distinction should be made---Fatso, 5042, don't model tape saturation, period.

Plugs do....and the only hardware device I know of that does is the Anamod.

Now if the transformer saturation, high freq compressing, head bump (eq) floats your boat, cool. But it's not tape saturation.

To me 'tape', whether it be anamod, some plug emulations or the real thing, is like an 'easy' button. I don't get that with the fatso---but the fatso is a great comp....and the warmth control is cool....great unit, just not a tape saturator, that's all.
Old 20th July 2015 | Show parent
  #66
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monkeyxx's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman View Post
Yeah, the distinction should be made---Fatso, 5042, don't model tape saturation, period.

Plugs do....and the only hardware device I know of that does is the Anamod.

Now if the transformer saturation, high freq compressing, head bump (eq) floats your boat, cool. But it's not tape saturation.

To me 'tape', whether it be anamod, some plug emulations or the real thing, is like an 'easy' button. I don't get that with the fatso---but the fatso is a great comp....and the warmth control is cool....great unit, just not a tape saturator, that's all.
That's a point I wanted to make too. I didn't know that about the Anamod though. I'd be curious how they accomplish tape emulation in the analog domain. Is it strange that it's the same price or more than many tape machines? I do not know. I'm sure it's more reliable and easier to use.
Old 20th July 2015 | Show parent
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrisonv View Post
SOOOOOO,

HOWEVER, the sound I was actually looking for that glues a mix together, enriches and tames the high mids at the same time, and saturates the entire mix was achieved by the Tube Ultra Q T1951 - I found one on ebay brand new after months of looking and it does EXACTLY what Dan said it does. Im sure it sounds good with a fatso but the unit alone does the trick for me. You can drive the hell out of the tubes and it is very musical.

THANK YOU DAN!
You're welcome :-) The harmonic distortion this thing adds is very pleasant to the ear. To me it beats any saturation plug in by miles. Absolutely love it on most vocals. If I use it on a whole mix, I use it sparingly though. It's easy to add way too much!

I highly recommend them and like I said, they're cheap if you can find them.

Dan
Old 20th July 2015 | Show parent
  #68
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Fleaman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyxx View Post
That's a point I wanted to make too. I didn't know that about the Anamod though. I'd be curious how they accomplish tape emulation in the analog domain. Is it strange that it's the same price or more than many tape machines? I do not know. I'm sure it's more reliable and easier to use.
It's an analog computer, literally. The others are not.

As for the cost? Well, there's no tape cost with Anamod

Plus, there's multiple tape machines and tape formulas to choose from. Like the Ampex 351 machine card----a '50's tube based tape machine! Super creamy and fat, unbelievable!

And way quieter than real tape.

So to do the same as anamod, you'd have to buy multiple tape machines, tape, maintenance, time, etc. And something like an Ampex 351 is just not likely. Where the anamod falls short is channel count.
Old 21st July 2015 | Show parent
  #69
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So here are some examples. I don't know that this song is the best to use but it's what I have on hand.

It's a rough mix as I was sending to another studio for mixing.
I like what it does to the instruments but I think in this case it makes the voice a bit too 'spitty'. I don't often use it on full mixes, just individual tracks. Keep in mind that you also get a perfectly usable stereo eq with this as well.

Original (no number) has no processing added. As the numbers increase so does the amount of harmonic distortion.

I did not check to see if they were level matched!
I would probably not use anymore processing than what 1 has on it.
Enjoy.

Dan
Attached Files

whiteFlag.mp3 (1.71 MB, 1075 views)

whiteFlag1.mp3 (1.71 MB, 1049 views)

whiteFlag2.mp3 (1.71 MB, 1029 views)

whiteFlag3.mp3 (1.71 MB, 1040 views)

whiteFlag4.mp3 (1.71 MB, 1055 views)

Old 21st July 2015
  #70
I dig it. I wouldn't call it tape sat, more like tube enhancement, but it adds harmonics and sheen for sure. Nice tune too!
Old 21st July 2015 | Show parent
  #71
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I'll try to dig up a more appropriate song. Maybe something with drums...
Dan
Old 21st July 2015 | Show parent
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Coates View Post
A lowly Behringer piece beats the Neve 542s. That's interesting and I don't doubt it. Every on line sample I've heard of the 542s were so subtle I kept thinking ...$1500 a pair for that? Plus the cost of a 500 rack? No thanks.
Have you actually tried either of the two products in your own listening environment? I must (embarrassingly) admit that I once owned one of those Berhinger 'toob warmth' compressors and honestly my old rusty Russian distortion pedal at the time sounded better.

Perhaps Rupert Neve decided he didn't need any fake LEDs or tiny light bulbs to hide behind some useless plate-starved toobs to enhance 'that glowing toob warmth' that was marketed to too many noobs back in the day. I'll take class A discrete any old day of the week over any crazy marketing nonsense.

I have not seen nor heard an example online of the 542 or 5042 that shows what these beauties are capable of. They are capable of sweet subtle gloss all the way to getting angry. Clipping an electronic kick with some blue silk? Incredible. Just running program through them zeroed out sounds great and is more colored than my matched pair of Chandler Germanium compressors. Just tightens things up, adds focus and framing. To me the 542s are erroneously marketed as tape simulators but really are just nicely colored tone shapers/limiters/clippers/saturators/3D-ifiers. They also rock on the drum bus following a VCA type compressor or last in line of a vocal tracking chain for the amazing blue and red silk taking the place of EQ. Two 542s in series using both silks is super cool on a vocal.

-dd
Old 21st July 2015 | Show parent
  #73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Demulling View Post
Have you actually tried either of the two products in your own listening environment? I must (embarrassingly) admit that I once owned one of those Berhinger 'toob warmth' compressors and honestly my old rusty Russian distortion pedal at the time sounded better.

Perhaps Rupert Neve decided he didn't need any fake LEDs or tiny light bulbs to hide behind some useless plate-starved toobs to enhance 'that glowing toob warmth' that was marketed to too many noobs back in the day. I'll take class A discrete any old day of the week over any crazy marketing nonsense.

I have not seen nor heard an example online of the 542 or 5042 that shows what these beauties are capable of. They are capable of sweet subtle gloss all the way to getting angry. Clipping an electronic kick with some blue silk? Incredible. Just running program through them zeroed out sounds great and is more colored than my matched pair of Chandler Germanium compressors. Just tightens things up, adds focus and framing. To me the 542s are erroneously marketed as tape simulators but really are just nicely colored tone shapers/limiters/clippers/saturators/3D-ifiers. They also rock on the drum bus following a VCA type compressor or last in line of a vocal tracking chain for the amazing blue and red silk taking the place of EQ. Two 542s in series using both silks is super cool on a vocal.

-dd
Have only heard on line samples of the 542 but the Zen Audio clips claim that the clips are showing more extreme settings. I agree with you about the sound of that Behringer EQ. After hearing the clips above, I'd say the song is very nice but I can hear a little trace of the nastiness of that Behringer starved plate ragged unmusical distortion that I remember from many years ago when I tried a different one of the Behringer Vintage series boxes with the fake "tube warmth" controls. The song would probably sound better without it. All distortion is not equal.
Old 21st July 2015
  #74
I like what the Behringer is doing to the stringed instruments in the first couple of examples. But the vocals..ouch.

You might wanna check out Airindows' ToTape4 . Does that smooth tape thing very well.

Last edited by auralart; 21st July 2015 at 10:37 AM..
Old 21st July 2015
  #75
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Tape sim devices are too expensive for me...
That's why I use Real R2R deck.
It's much cheaper than any simulators. haha...
Old 21st July 2015
  #76
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just adding to the thread a mention of the roger meyer 456 unit, which SOS thought was pretty cool..

and I think overstayer have a couple of units, the MAS and the Saturator... (maybe someone mentioned the saturator on this thread earlier)
Old 21st July 2015
  #77
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I don't think it's been mentioned, the DIY Recording Equipment Colour module is designed for this purpose. They even have a "15 ips" module. Only $200 but you build it yourself.

I feel like I'm too stuck on software to get into this type of hardware. For some reason I just can't pull the trigger on any of these overdrive devices. I think the SansAmp is the closest I've got.
Old 21st July 2015 | Show parent
  #78
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Yeah, as I said, in this song it ruins the vocals. There are not many songs that I use it on the whole mix. But on bass and male vocals it is great.

I'll try to get permission to put up a snippet of another song where I think it does sound good on both the vocal and the whole mix.

Dan
Old 21st July 2015 | Show parent
  #79
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K, last samples. This time it was only applied to the vocal.
SoulB and SoulB2 have the processing.

Dan
Attached Files

Soul.mp3 (1.79 MB, 821 views)

SoulB.mp3 (1.79 MB, 809 views)

SoulB2.mp3 (1.77 MB, 809 views)

Old 22nd July 2015
  #80
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You might want to check out the Wooly Mammoth from Mammoth Cave Audio.

There are multiple models, and I have a customized Wooly Mammoth Deluxe MkII.

Along with the multiple input transformer choices: Iron, Nickel, Steel (or a Haufe can be swapped out with the Steel or the Nickel), and the Iron output transformers, and the dual germanium diode circuits, there are 3 levels of hi and lo pass filtering that resemble the sound of tape.
Old 22nd July 2015 | Show parent
  #81
Registered User
 

Just out of curiosity.
What can you get with all the aforementioned units that cannot be done with a combo of U-he's Satin+Presswerk?
(just to make it clear I have no financial affiliation to the company but am enjoying their stuff).

Thank you
Paul
Old 22nd July 2015 | Show parent
  #82
I've been looking at the Mammoth stuff. Seems like a good alternative to something like a culture vulture. Do you have any songs where you used it on we can listen to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucerothwell View Post
You might want to check out the Wooly Mammoth from Mammoth Cave Audio.

There are multiple models, and I have a customized Wooly Mammoth Deluxe MkII.

Along with the multiple input transformer choices: Iron, Nickel, Steel (or a Haufe can be swapped out with the Steel or the Nickel), and the Iron output transformers, and the dual germanium diode circuits, there are 3 levels of hi and lo pass filtering that resemble the sound of tape.
Old 22nd July 2015 | Show parent
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auralart View Post
I've been looking at the Mammoth stuff. Seems like a good alternative to something like a culture vulture. Do you have any songs where you used it on we can listen to?
The samples of the music in my sig were mixed through my custom Wooly Mammoth Deluxe MkII.

(But, hmmm... it seems my sig does not always show up. Not sure why. -- EDIT: Maybe it only happens when I quote someone else??)

Last edited by brucerothwell; 22nd July 2015 at 10:59 PM..
Old 22nd July 2015
  #84
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Just got a pair of Neve 542 they are friggin awesome also having a blend knob is nice.
Silk red and blue are really great sounding definitely some good character from these. Then I go into my obsidian love it.
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