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Abbey Road Institute
Old 19th March 2015
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Abbey Road Institute

Hey guys,

I am looking to study sound engineering and basically music production and was wondering where the best school in london to study this is? I have been looking at a lot of them and have just come across a new one called abbey road institute as well, wanted to know what you think of it and any other recommendations I have looked at ssr and sae as well.
I like rock/indie rock music so a course that best suits that...
Old 19th March 2015
  #2
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narcoman's Avatar
 

spend that money on buying your own stuff and teaching yourself. Network as much as you can.

Last edited by narcoman; 19th March 2015 at 11:59 PM..
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Old 19th March 2015
  #3
Never heard of "Abbey Road Institute" - doesn't appear to have a web presence, almost certainly not affiliated with the studio itself....but trading on the name.

Make of that what you will. As narcoman says, commercial universities like SAE are just there to make money.

PS you posted this same question on 3 random threads. Don't do that
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Old 19th March 2015
  #4
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Sotsirc's Avatar
 

I went to SAE, and I'm not gonna say it was brilliant; but being around other people who are trying to achieve the same things (roughly) and taking the time to learn in a decent studio was valuable to me. I was working at a studio at the time and signal flow and general fundamentals of a recording studio was not something I could get my head around on my own. I didn't have anyone taking the time to teach me anything (I'd been working in the box at home and minimal live sound when playing in a band).

I got what I needed out I of it (not much more than that) and I managed to write off the fee as a business expense.

A surprising amount of the people in my class are in the music industry now. But of course, they had talent and some experience going in.
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Old 19th March 2015
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Never heard of "Abbey Road Institute" - doesn't appear to have a web presence, almost certainly not affiliated with the studio itself....but trading on the name.

Make of that what you will. As narcoman says, commercial universities like SAE are just there to make money.

PS you posted this same question on 3 random threads. Don't do that
I happen to be at Abbey Road Studios on a session and the buzz was that they just opened a new Institute - don't know much about it but it is affiliated with the studios!
Old 19th March 2015
  #6
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Joao B.'s Avatar
 

https://abbeyroadinstitute.co.uk/en

It's part of the recording studios, yes.
Old 19th March 2015
  #7
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Ernest Buckley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertlloyd123 View Post
Hey guys,

I am looking to study sound engineering and basically music production and was wondering where the best school in london to study this is? I have been looking at a lot of them and have just come across a new one called abbey road institute as well, wanted to know what you think of it and any other recommendations I have looked at ssr and sae as well.
I like rock/indie rock music so a course that best suits that...
This subject has been spoken of many times on this forum if you look around. Most would agree to get some gear, network, and if possible, intern somewhere (which is really becoming a thing of the past).

I think paying to go to a recording school is a waste of money. I think its nice if you have the cash just lying around and want to be in a learning environment. You can also make some contacts there but at the end of the day, its going to come down the business relationships you make and being "lucky" which means being prepared when and if opportunity knocks.

There are many talented engineers and producers out there who have the chops and the relationships but they never got the chance to work with a Nirvana or a Michael Jackson. I don`t want to be a downer, just be aware of the current state of the recording industry, budgets, and what engineers are actually making per year. Its not pretty.

Last edited by Ernest Buckley; 19th March 2015 at 09:12 PM..
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Old 19th March 2015
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by denisthemenace View Post
I happen to be at Abbey Road Studios on a session and the buzz was that they just opened a new Institute - don't know much about it but it is affiliated with the studios!
I stand corrected!

Hopefully it's more than a money making scheme. Historically AR take all much of their new staff from the Surrey Uni Tonmeister program.
Old 19th March 2015
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnDeFiNeD View Post
Can I just ask why you loathe SAE? Have you attended and had a bad experience, or is it just hearsay?

Not speaking for my company here, but purely on my own behalf.
After the tremendous amount of work me and my colleagues put into getting top level audio education to people who want to start out in the audio industry, it kind of hurts hearing people say this, and I'd like to know why.

Alex
I don't want to get into an argument with you so I'll delete my post as Im a moderator here; my views are not the views of GS. You can PM me if you want to hear my opinions.
Old 20th March 2015
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
I don't want to get into an argument with you so I'll delete my post as Im a moderator here; my views are not the views of GS. You can PM me if you want to hear my opinions.
Fair enough. Deleted my post too.

Alex
Old 20th March 2015
  #11
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Mike O's Avatar
 

Too bad people cannot find it within themselves to add affiliation to their signature if they have them.

Noting the affiliation does not mean you are posting in a professional capacity but rather informing where advice comes from. In far too many cases a thread like this is where you hear about an affiliation.

I really like how [email protected] does it; both in name and signature. And then often comments and even recommends other, non RND/Fingerprint Audio products.

A class act.
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Old 20th March 2015
  #12
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I don't know what it's like outside the US, but here in the States there are a lot of ways to pick up some of the more valuable parts of an "education" without the expense.

Some two-year "community colleges" offer varying levels of electronics and computer/network training. School that offer architecture degrees will often have a course or two covering acoustics. Some "music major" programs have begun incorporating some recording stuff into their programs.

If you are able to stop thinking in terms of a "recording" education and break it down into its component parts there are quite a few ways to get the necessary knowledge.

And after all is said and done, then you have to try to find a job...and often networking is the key do doing that...
Old 20th March 2015
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike O View Post
Too bad people cannot find it within themselves to add affiliation to their signature if they have them.

Noting the affiliation does not mean you are posting in a professional capacity but rather informing where advice comes from. In far too many cases a thread like this is where you hear about an affiliation.

I really like how [email protected] does it; both in name and signature. And then often comments and even recommends other, non RND/Fingerprint Audio products.

A class act.
You have to remember that some companies and organizations expressly forbid using their names on social media without permission, and it's often hard to get.

Here in the US we're way too lawsuit-happy...and no business wants to shell out sometimes millions of dollars over something some junior-level employee might say...
Old 20th March 2015
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdenton View Post
You have to remember that some companies and organizations expressly forbid using their names on social media without permission, and it's often hard to get.

Here in the US we're way too lawsuit-happy...and no business wants to shell out sometimes millions of dollars over something some junior-level employee might say...
...but GS policy is that representatives of a company have to disclose their affiliations if they're in any way promoting their products.

I don't think there's any rules broken here though - before making any comment loyalties were revealed, I think that's ok.
Old 20th March 2015
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
...but GS policy is that representatives of a company have to disclose their affiliations if they're in any way promoting their products.

I don't think there's any rules broken here though - before making any comment loyalties were revealed, I think that's ok.
I think we're talking about two different situations...

If you're promoting a product (or officially "representing" your company) you would typically have an authorization from your company to act in that fashion, and the company would obviously want their name getting out there.

But things sometimes get a bit contentious in these types of forums, and most companies don't want their name attached to comments you are making as an individual. If the tea-boy is bad-mouthing your biggest client you probably would not want your studio's name associated with the comment.

But yeah, if somebody is pimping for a company, the company's name and the person's affiliation with them should definitely be disclosed...
Old 20th March 2015
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdenton View Post
I think we're talking about two different situations...

If you're promoting a product (or officially "representing" your company) you would typically have an authorization from your company to act in that fashion, and the company would obviously want their name getting out there.

But things sometimes get a bit contentious in these types of forums, and most companies don't want their name attached to comments you are making as an individual. If the tea-boy is bad-mouthing your biggest client you probably would not want your studio's name associated with the comment.

But yeah, if somebody is pimping for a company, the company's name and the person's affiliation with them should definitely be disclosed...
Yes. I think we agree, but I was specifically referring to the comment Mike O made. I don't think Undefined needs to have the fact he works for SAE in his .sig; the proprietor of a dealership does.

As far as I'm concerned, stating "I work for SAE" before making a comment on the situation is perfectly adequate. To somehow imply he's dishonest for not broadcasting it in his .sig is not appropriate.

I don't advertise my affiliations either in terms of my employers - neither do a lot of people. Nor should we have to!
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Old 20th March 2015
  #17
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1 year course = 11.000£ or 16.000€ or 17.000$

You could mount a nice home studio with that kind of money.
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Old 20th March 2015
  #18
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LixoFixo View Post
1 year course = 11.000£ or 16.000€ or 17.000$

You could mount a nice home studio with that kind of money.
Thats what I think would be the best route. Take some advice first, look around, research - then spend a small amount of money and get learning.
Old 20th March 2015
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by LixoFixo View Post
1 year course = 11.000£ or 16.000€ or 17.000$

You could mount a nice home studio with that kind of money.
3 year accredited university degree from lipa, surrey or one of a couple of others - usual uni fees (means tested).

If you really want a "formal" education, that's the ideal way.

The major problem with the SAE approach (good or bad as the tuition may be, I've never attended so don't know), is that it's financially elitist. You either have well off kids attending (not wishing to generalize, but many aren't motivated to really put the work in. Many, not all), or people who've taken out loans to do it. Which means upon graduating, they're not in a position to work a minimum wage job, and so can't follow their dream.

The regular uni system isn't so much, but then the best (ie only worthwhile) courses have a high entry standard and lots of competition.

Bit like the studio world really!
Old 20th March 2015
  #20
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A440's Avatar
"Music Theory Grade 1 (ABRSM) or equivalent knoledge;"

Is an entry requirement apparently. I'd feel more confident about the course if they could spell 'knowledge' correctly...
Old 20th March 2015
  #21
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FFTT's Avatar
 

You are talking about spending serious money on a study course where maybe
the top 1% succeed after YEARS of humble pie eating experience.

Many of these programs end up being nothing more than a diploma mill.

A high end version of sending your toddler to ballet school where the primary goal is making money off the hopes and dreams of others.

They earn their money selling the cute little outfits and lessons and the big finale video shoot of the recital.

Maybe 1%, if even that will ever dance professionally.
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Old 20th March 2015
  #22
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One of the most famous recording studios in the world had to open a school up to pay their bills. That is an education right there about how bad the marketplace for studios is right now.
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Old 20th March 2015
  #23
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FFTT's Avatar
 

Audio Only Facilities may have trouble keeping up with the times.

Video Killed The Radio Star!
Old 20th March 2015
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by doom64 View Post
One of the most famous recording studios in the world had to open a school up to pay their bills. That is an education right there about how bad the marketplace for studios is right now.
It's a sad fact of economic life that when things start getting bad, folks who have been having increasing trouble freelancing or who find themselves unexpectedly out of work often end up teaching at for-profit schools that, themselves, become ever more desperate in their attempts to make hay while the sun is (still) shining (a little).

Fortunately, there are a number of legit recording and other programs at non-profit schools that don't have to turn into loan-mill diploma factories. (That said, one should STILL beware of going deeply into debt in order to prepare to enter a field where the bottom has largely dropped out for many professionals.)

I'm all for folks educating themselves -- and, as noted, there is a wealth of info online and in the print world (although, in this field, one has to be aware that many are seriously technically misinformed; it's pandemic in recording at this point)... but they should be aware that there is an extraordinary glut of people calling themselves recording engineers. The likelihood of being able to pay off an expensive education with earnings from recording is pretty darn low at this point for most folks.

Last edited by theblue1; 20th March 2015 at 06:55 PM..
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Old 20th March 2015
  #25
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Avening's Avatar
 

^ True.

I think that a good recording school is a great jumping-off point for a career in live audio, corporate audio, general A/V, theater, facilities management, audio sales/rentals, ect. But high-end commercial studios doing rock and roll? Pretty much forget about it. And unfortunately, that is the one area majority of people seeking education in audio want to end up. 99.99999% not going to happen. Ask me how I know! (and I actually went to a good audio school and succeeded in that ultimate quest for commercial studio / platinum album assistant engineering heaven).
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Old 20th March 2015
  #26
Now days, most high end studios won't even let you clean their toilets unless you came out of a college or have connections.
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Old 20th March 2015
  #27
Gear Head
 

Most of these replies really bothered me, feel like they're so negative but I guess you're all right. It's just that we work with some young people music related, and one has really taken to sound engineering. She's running live sound full stage setup, digital desks and everything and also helping me out with studio ,recording etc. she's only 16, desperate to learn more every time, tons of questions. She finishes school next year and desperately wants to study sound. Her parents are a bit like 'there's no money in music' she could probably be a doctor she's that smart. What do I tell her? Someone like that needs to go to college of some kind to study to its full capacity. I showed her some of the private studios like you talk about bit they're silly expensive but you have benefit of learning in a studio environment. Do you reckon I should point her towards the university route?
Old 20th March 2015
  #28
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FFTT's Avatar
 

She may have better luck with live sound support, broadcast engineering, broadcast video, tour support, lighting and stage, than studio adventures.

That tuition money could buy a nice local event sized sound system, then she just needs a truck and road helpers.

Bands make most of their money these days on the road touring and on merchandising.

The records and videos have pretty much ended up as advertising.
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Old 20th March 2015
  #29
Here for the gear
 

Whilst there is a debate to had regarding the merit of studying audio production as a means of developing a career in the industry, the reality is many responsible providers acknowledge that.

Clearly only a small percentage of graduates will end up sustaining themselves as professional sound technicians. But this is reflected by the importance of the 'transferable skills' embedded in the best courses. Skills gained in professional practice, basic business skills, personal marketing and self development, hopefully leave graduates equipped with a qualification and a wide array of skills that will, at the very least, improve their employment prospects in a range of fields.

Now, if someone is debating between studying audio technology and other subjects then they should think carefully about which option is likely to offer the better long term value. If however it is a choice between studying at college/ university or not taking any form of higher level qual at all then there is probably a compelling argument to say that these quals offer benefits beyond possible careers in music production.

Just my two penn'orth, but I do think that SAE and other responsible providers do acknowledge that not all their graduates are likely to end up as self sustaining practitioners in music and tailor their courses accordingly so there is a wider range of potential benefits. Remember, in the *real* world many jobs do require graduate applicants regardless of the discipline/subject.
Old 20th March 2015
  #30
Gear Head
 

Maybe, but I still think she would gain a lot more knowledge and understanding with college or some kind of internship. Seen to many people think they can just buy a load of gear and be the sound man when they haven't a clue. Someone like this needs to learn from someone beyond my experience. I've just never come across someone so enthusiastic to learn and also have the practical skill at such a young age. I think it's a shame if we just say 'do it yourself'. Anyway thanks for the advice I'm sure she'll do well either way.
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