The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Hi Hats to loud
Old 14th December 2006
  #1
Lives for gear
 
dntknowsht's Avatar
 

Hi Hats to loud

I'm trying to doctor up an old recording done in 1992. The problem is Hi Hat bleed like crazy! And to top it off, there's only mics on the HH, kick, snare, and two room mics. I've got the HH muted (of course) but it's still REALLY bad.

Is there possibly a trick to reducing Hi Hat bleed using the HH mic? I was thinking that sending the Hi Hat mic signal to the problem sources and fliping the phase, maybe it would cancle out the Hat? But, I tried it and it didn't work.

Anyone know any old school mojo? Or just a couple suggestions?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Old 14th December 2006
  #2
Gear Nut
 
Jamstudio's Avatar
 

noisegate on snare

Remco
Old 14th December 2006
  #3
Lives for gear
 
dntknowsht's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamstudio View Post
noisegate on snare

Remco
Thanks, but it's just as loud in the room and kick mics too (if you can believe that)!
Old 14th December 2006
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Geert van den Berg's Avatar
 

If the hats where played too loud in comparison to the rest you're basically ****ed...

I'd try eq'ing the annoying frequencies out a bit or use something like a high frequency compressor (multiband compressor)/de-esser... but even then there's also a lot of snare presence in that area so if you go too wild with it you lose your snappy snare as well.
Old 14th December 2006
  #5
Lives for gear
 
cdog's Avatar
Garbage in = Garbage Out

If whats on the recorded tracks is sounding ****ty, its tough to make it sound substantially better.

At best, its going to sound "not as bad."

If the HH is loud in every mic but the kick you're pretty F'd.

Yeah, so you knew that.

You can do some notch filtering on each mic to remove the most offensive frequencies but it likely the best bet is to take down the whole HH frequency range by a few DB on the drum submix and go for a midrange heavy drum sound.

Good Luck


Old 14th December 2006
  #6
Gear Nut
 
Mr. Green's Avatar
 

Tame your hats - Drumagog the rest.

Do what must be done.
Old 14th December 2006
  #7
Lives for gear
 

yeah, like everyone's said, if the hats are too loud in everything, you're pretty much stuck with it.

however, sometimes sliding the tracks around with respect to each other (a sample or 3 ahead/behind) can sometimes introduce a little comb filtering that may be able to tame the hats. of course, you might lose the body of the kick/snare in doing so. eq might help too.

if that doesn't work, get it to where it's "bearable" and slide some kick/snare samples up underneath to give the kick/snare some punch.


cheers,
wade
Old 14th December 2006
  #8
Lives for gear
 
kurt's Avatar
Mr. Green has the best solution.
Old 14th December 2006
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Cojo's Avatar
 

Take the track where the hihat is to load, make a duplicate of it. Put a hi pass filter on the new duplicated track and flip the phase of it. Now blend it with the original track. Adjust the hi pass filter and level to get the best effect.

/Cojo
Old 14th December 2006
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
Samples....
Old 14th December 2006
  #11
Sample the snare and then blend that sample back in with all of the original snare hits. That will make each snare hit louder and make the hihat seem softer.
Old 14th December 2006
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
CommunityMart's Avatar
 

Mike, I did not even think about that. Thanks. Cool

I had this same problem the other day on a popquiz I gave myself, so I played drums too.

...Just put the snare back again. I'm going to try it.
Old 14th December 2006
  #13
Vum
Lives for gear
 
Vum's Avatar
 

I'd first start with an expander and try to get the hat pressed out of the main snare mic.
If I wasn't able to use the bottom snare alone or blended with the expanded snare, then I'd try to slide things around, play with phase etc.

After that I'd be reaching for samples and just get on with it.
You can always load the track into a sequencer and replay the drums if you have someone who is willing to have their takes chopped up and moved. It may provide a more sterile take but in the interest of the song it will at least keep the session moving.
Old 14th December 2006
  #14
Lives for gear
 
dntknowsht's Avatar
 

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm definately going to be giving some of them a try. I'll let you know what works best.

I was really hoping there is some trick for mellowing out the HH. And that the engineer had it in mind when setting up this HH mic (for a drummer that obviously didn't need it)???
It's truely a mystery to me.
Old 15th December 2006
  #15
I always have a hihat mic, but it's pretty much never connected.

Charley Drayton, Omar Hakim, Steve Wolf, Steve Holley, get it connected, but otherwise it's only when a drummer considers the groove to be affected by a lack of the hat that I connect it.

I don't leave it up to be misleading, just to save time when my assumption is wrong.
Old 15th December 2006
  #16
Vum
Lives for gear
 
Vum's Avatar
 

I posted this on another thread:

I record the hi-hat always so that when the drummer comes into the control room to hear a take, I put it way up in the mix. He then, without me having to tell him, inevitably does more takes with a much less "hammer of the Gods" approach to the hats.

It's one thing to tell someone to change their part, it's another to show them to change it. That way ego/id/superego stays with the singer and the drummer can get on with his takes so he can go home and watch Deep Space Nine on TiVo. -


Of course, this is only applicable to a drummer without dynamic control. It's the same theory as using a microphone: get the sound right at the source. Without the performance on the hat being controlled, you won't hear that in the mix.
Old 15th December 2006
  #17
Lives for gear
 
dave-G's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dntknowsht View Post
Hi Hats to loud
Hihats too loud
Quote:
Originally Posted by cojo
Take the track where the hihat is to load
Take the track where the hihat is too loud.


There. I'm a didactic asshole ... sorry.

Gating the kick and snare mics -- with elaborate sidechain filtering -- can help ...

Then ... even though it's complete lunacy, you might try using the hihat mic to key a de-esser or a split band compressor of some type on the room/OH mics. Tweak the attack and release with the thing in stupid amounts of gain reduction to find a good GR envelope, and then back off the threshold/ratio till you're just bumping it down a few dB, and it might actually turn out to be usable ...

If successful, however, the best you can probably hope for is that this take you from "Alex Van Halen on PCP" to just "Alex Van Halen".

the horror

Good luck.
-dave
Old 15th December 2006
  #18
Lives for gear
 
True North's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vum View Post
I posted this on another thread:

I record the hi-hat always so that when the drummer comes into the control room to hear a take, I put it way up in the mix. He then, without me having to tell him, inevitably does more takes with a much less "hammer of the Gods" approach to the hats.

It's one thing to tell someone to change their part, it's another to show them to change it. That way ego/id/superego stays with the singer and the drummer can get on with his takes so he can go home and watch Deep Space Nine on TiVo. -
You sneaky bugger you, sneaky but f'n brilliant heh

Where's that confounded thanks button when you need it!!??
Old 16th December 2006
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Cojo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Hihats too loud

Take the track where the hihat is too loud.


There. I'm a didactic asshole ... sorry.
heh He, he... Spelling is not my strongest side. But at least I'm not the only one!
Old 16th December 2006
  #20
Lives for gear
 
picksail's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vum View Post
I posted this on another thread:

I record the hi-hat always so that when the drummer comes into the control room to hear a take, I put it way up in the mix. He then, without me having to tell him, inevitably does more takes with a much less "hammer of the Gods" approach to the hats.

It's one thing to tell someone to change their part, it's another to show them to change it. That way ego/id/superego stays with the singer and the drummer can get on with his takes so he can go home and watch Deep Space Nine on TiVo. -


Of course, this is only applicable to a drummer without dynamic control. It's the same theory as using a microphone: get the sound right at the source. Without the performance on the hat being controlled, you won't hear that in the mix.
Nice!!!

So you too are believer in the 'psychology and manipulation of the monitor mix'?

It helps to also, gradually, increase the hi-hat volume in their cans. (I didn't really say that)
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
RichT / So Much Gear, So Little Time
20
mwagener / High End
18
vaesion / So Much Gear, So Little Time
37
ljmax / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
3
Matt Hepworth / So Much Gear, So Little Time
29

Forum Jump
Forum Jump