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Neumann KH 310 KH310 Left / right woofer positioning - placement inside or outside?
Old 11th October 2014
  #1
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Neumann KH 310 KH310 Left / right woofer positioning - placement inside or outside?

Just a shout to the lucky KH310 owners or those who know about woofer placement

Which is the the correct way, woofers on the inside (as far right) or outside (as in far left)

Woofers outside
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRBTPDXt8eI

Woofers inside
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64z6wv-Dpdc

woofers outside
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnnzHVK2vfY

woofers inside
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/9015239-post111.html

Woofers inside
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNjJ9uSfpAU

woofers outside
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfchEbNutAg


Neumann's setting up the studio monitors guide doesn't say much on the matter. Is this a slutty question or is this personal preference. In terms of dispersion, wave guides, etc I'm sure there are some general recommendations aside from them being symmetrical! Thanks for the discussion 8)
Old 11th October 2014
  #2
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musicl's Avatar
 

.

Last edited by musicl; 11th October 2014 at 08:15 PM.. Reason: delete - empty post
Old 11th October 2014
  #3
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Jantex's Avatar
 

Woofers on the inside. That is the correct setup for KH310 and O300.

I don't really know what was with the engineers who set them up the other way around. Probably they didn't read the manual.
Old 11th October 2014
  #4
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My exact problem is i have them both with the woofer on the outside and tweeter inside.

The left hand monitor has the woofer on the inside
The diamond Neumann badge reads correctly (it reads from top to bottom)
The left monitor is 505575 (L)

The right hand monitors has the woofer on the outside
The diamond Neumann badge does not read correctly (it is from bottom to top and back to front)
the Right monitor is 505576 (R)


Both the L and R serial numbers seem to be ok. My woofer position on each monitor are not symmetrical without me flipping a monitors upside-down which results in the back being upside-down! I'm wondering if i have a defective unit? IE a mislabelling?.a Any KH310 owners out there that could take a look?

Here's a picture to illustrate
Attached Thumbnails
Neumann KH 310 KH310 Left / right woofer positioning - placement inside or outside?-kh310issue.png  

Last edited by musicl; 11th October 2014 at 10:40 PM.. Reason: added serial numbers
Old 11th October 2014
  #5
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The CORRECT method and design is for the woofers to be INSIDE on both and the tweeters/mid on the outside. This gives you the widest stereo image and is how they are designed to be placed. If your RIGHT speaker has the woofer on the outside then that is simply wrong, take them back and get a properly matched pair with the tweeters on the outside. Definitely mislabeled by the way.....YES I am an owner of these speakers too by the way, and LOVE them so please take them back and get a new set you too will love them.
Old 12th October 2014
  #6
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Thanks guys! Especially the support Jantex. I shall find out from Neumann to see if there was a labelling error in the factory from my serial numbers. Don't want to spoil any listening for this expensive amazing monitors!
Old 16th October 2014
  #7
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicl View Post
My exact problem is i have them both with the woofer on the outside and tweeter inside.

The left hand monitor has the woofer on the inside
The diamond Neumann badge reads correctly (it reads from top to bottom)
The left monitor is 505575 (L)

The right hand monitors has the woofer on the outside
The diamond Neumann badge does not read correctly (it is from bottom to top and back to front)
the Right monitor is 505576 (R)


Both the L and R serial numbers seem to be ok. My woofer position on each monitor are not symmetrical without me flipping a monitors upside-down which results in the back being upside-down! I'm wondering if i have a defective unit? IE a mislabelling?.a Any KH310 owners out there that could take a look?

Here's a picture to illustrate
Those are both Left monitors - You have one incorrectly boxed.

Talk to Neumann, the two should be mirror images of each other.
Old 16th October 2014
  #8
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musicl's Avatar
 

Thanks John! Thought I was going mad as I couldn't believe what happened

They have confirmed the error. Just chasing and waiting on Neumann via the company I got them through (who I must say are excellent!) Can't wait to run some audio through them.
Old 16th October 2014
  #9
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
There is no right or wrong in terms of woofer in or out. As long as the acoustic axis of the monitors and the sweet spot forms an equilateral triangle (or at least close to it), any way is good. So if you have a lot of stuff that needs to fit in-between the O300/KH310´s, then place them with the woofer on the outside. If you can choose freely; I would opt for woofer on the inside but optimally, some acoustic measurements would be the best way to determine the ideal placement.
Old 16th October 2014
  #10
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
Woofers on the inside. That is the correct setup for KH310 and O300.

I don't really know what was with the engineers who set them up the other way around. Probably they didn't read the manual.
Quoting the manual:

It is also possible to use a “left” in the “right” position, and vice versa.”

Old 5th July 2018
  #11
Deleted b69c0aa
Guest
I'm convinced they sound better woofers on the inside...I tried both ways...i felt they sounded warmer and had a wider stereo image...I replicated positions to the mm, but of course this moved the acoustical axis, so...also I'm using them nearfield...one thing for certain, with woofers inside they sound warmer as you lean in, vs. brighter woofers out...
Old 22nd November 2018
  #12
Deleted b69c0aa
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Two Philip Newell rooms with tweeters inside...must be OK I guess:

http://philipnewell.net/img/p9-ph4-t...a-portugal.jpg
http://philipnewell.net/img/p9-ph1-metrica-ibiza.jpg
Old 22nd November 2018
  #13
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund View Post
There is no right or wrong in terms of woofer in or out. As long as the acoustic axis of the monitors and the sweet spot forms an equilateral triangle (or at least close to it), any way is good.
If woofer at inside results in the position of the tweeter and midrange to be further apart (compared to woofers on outside), the stereo width will increase, but if repositioned so that the mid and tweeter are in the same position (regardless of woofer position), the stereo image should be close to identical (with a possible exception for frequencies just below x-over from mid to woofer).
Old 23rd November 2018
  #14
Deleted b69c0aa
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund View Post
Again:



If woofer at inside results in the position of the tweeter and midrange to be further apart (compared to woofers on outside), the stereo width will increase, but if repositioned so that the mid and tweeter are in the same position (regardless of woofer position), the stereo image should be close to identical (with a possible exception for frequencies just below x-over from mid to woofer).
I know what you're saying, but it's a bit more complicated than that, as the dispersion isn't the same left and right of the speaker, particularly above 500Hz...see image below...hard to say which is better tbh...but it's definitely different, and it does sound different...

(that's a Left KH310A; left is up + right is down; 1dB steps; 30 then 180 degrees...)
Attached Thumbnails
Neumann KH 310 KH310 Left / right woofer positioning - placement inside or outside?-30-degrees-left-spkr.jpg   Neumann KH 310 KH310 Left / right woofer positioning - placement inside or outside?-180-degrees-left-spkr.jpg  
Old 23rd November 2018
  #15
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Jens Eklund's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted b69c0aa View Post
I know what you're saying, but it's a bit more complicated than that, as the dispersion isn't the same left and right of the speaker, particularly above 500Hz...see image below...hard to say which is better tbh...but it's definitely different, and it does sound different...
If the room is not treated properly (side wall reflections), then yes; that might play small role. If properly treated however; direct sound will dominate, so it doesn’t matter much how the speaker behaves off-axis (in larger angles off-axis in the horizontal plane, vertical plane is another story due to desks and floor…).
Old 23rd November 2018
  #16
Deleted b69c0aa
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Eklund View Post
If the room is not treated properly (side wall reflections), then yes; that might play small role. If properly treated however; direct sound will dominate, so it doesn’t matter much how the speaker behaves off-axis (in larger angles off-axis in the horizontal plane, vertical plane is another story due to desks and floor…).
Good point, especially at mid-field...but I think if you're using them near-field even in a treated room they will sound a bit different...at least once you move around...
Old 23rd November 2018
  #17
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i'd also take into consideration how far apart the speakers are positioned and in smaller rooms also the distance to the side walls: coupling in the lower frequency range is heavily depending on distance (as can easily be experienced when arraying subwoofers) -
Old 25th November 2018
  #18
Generally speaking it's woofers in, but perhaps if you were in a situation where you had to place them wider than "normal" then you *could* go woofers out so the tweeters were in the optimal spot. That being said I would think this situation is exceedingly rare so just go woofers in like a normal human.

Also, jealous...I have the KH120s and they're the ****, I wish I had a room (and a budget) big enough for the 310s, and that awesome sub to go with em.
Old 26th November 2018
  #19
Deleted b69c0aa
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by kojak View Post
Generally speaking it's woofers in, but perhaps if you were in a situation where you had to place them wider than "normal" then you *could* go woofers out so the tweeters were in the optimal spot. That being said I would think this situation is exceedingly rare so just go woofers in like a normal human.

Also, jealous...I have the KH120s and they're the ****, I wish I had a room (and a budget) big enough for the 310s, and that awesome sub to go with em.
...u might be better off with the kh120s...the 310s aren't so great in less than 2m...well maybe not worth it, is what I mean...also less phase shift on the 120s I think...I thought the 80s are cool, though haven't done any work on them.

I don't know if you need their sub, unless u need more SPL...I don't anyway, I'm a 80dB kinda guy...I have a not so good B&W sub crossed-over just where the 310s roll off (about 35 in my room), so with that I'm flat to about 15Hz...by adding another crossover in the 80Hz area you're only adding more problems.
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