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That Sheen Condenser Microphones
Old 28th July 2014
  #481
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uptoolate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chainrule View Post
not really, I have no pride
Uuuhhhh....ok man. Its all good.
Old 28th July 2014
  #482
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code green's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chainrule View Post
I guess that settles it then, it's his room. It's not skill or gear. This is good news for him. Room treatment will only cost a few thousand dollars.
Or, for these specific mixes, these ones that are already tracked and that he asked about, he could--among other options he may or may not choose to take--use some subtractive EQ. No need to design ever more elaborate experiments to satisfy your desire to prove ever more baroque levels of reductio ad absurdum.
Old 28th July 2014
  #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chainrule View Post
not really, I have no pride, and I really don't' feel like I have anything to prove to anyone
err...hmmm...pride?...how about no shame;

sorry to pile on...but you brought it on by your insolent stubbornness...
Old 28th July 2014
  #484
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uptoolate's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chainrule View Post
ok I will bow out of the thread, this will be my last post. But damn this was fikkin fun
Yes it was...hate to see ya go bro.

Stick around. You propelled my thread and im learning a few things. Thats what GS is all about!

Its all just gear and opinions...not life or death.
Old 28th July 2014
  #485
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

And in case you didn't catch this live, 30 years later. And still got that sheen!

What an incredible thing to behold:

Old 28th July 2014
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
No one is disagreeing the Burl is "better". The point is that buying something along the lines of a burl isn't going to fix the main issues with the posted tracks. The OP is looking for help with that primarily.



Your "best" work is the best work you've already done, not the stuff you might do in future. Call it a "personal best"...this you certainly can do!



So who does? where are they? most bands get their material to youtube/spotify/itunes/bandcamp etc. I don't own the rights to post any UNRELEASED material, but I certainly can post links to major label stuff, even though I don't own it.



No one is "slamming" you or your abilities. They are taking issue with the thought that conversion is the biggest issue with the posted mixes.



I see your argument...but I could correct some of those issues monitoring through my macbook inbuilt audio. I can HEAR them with that conversion; are you telling me the FF isn't even as good as that?



But that's not inherently down to the FF necessarily! My 002 mixes aren't as good as the stuff I'm doing now (with the odd exception). The thing is, I've now got better monitoring, a better studio and hopefully I've improved over the past 5-6 years as well!
Smoothvibe was a lot more fun than this. Where did he go? It seems somewhat unlikely that convertors will fix a recording in a big way. Is it possible that the meters in the fireface were different and it was overloaded when the person was having such a bad time with it?
Old 28th July 2014
  #487
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Jazz Noise's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
err...hmmm...pride?...how about no shame;

sorry to pile on...but you brought it on by your insolent stubbornness...
There's those stinkin' book words again
Old 28th July 2014
  #488
Quote:
Originally Posted by chainrule View Post
spoken like true gentleman, I will bow out of the thread, this will be my last post. But damn this was fikkin fun
Quote:
Originally Posted by uptoolate View Post
Yes it was...hate to see ya go bro.

Stick around. You propelled my thread and im learning a few things. Thats what GS is all about!

Its all just gear and opinions...not life or death.
By all means, stick around. For what it's worth, my post wasn't intended to stop anyone from posting, just to curb the trolling. It would be interesting to have some new input on topic from anyone. Cheers,
Old 28th July 2014
  #489
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Anyone else having a "SmoothVibe" Déjà-vu
Old 28th July 2014
  #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teofunk View Post
Anyone else having a "SmoothVibe" Déjà-vu
Yes I felt the same thing with chainrule when he first showed up on the site a few months back.

Jim
Old 28th July 2014
  #491
I'm not the OP to whom this post is directed, but I have some thoughts on it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by chainrule View Post
The burl is 10x better than a fireface, go to highend and ask around, don't take my word for it.

[...]
Just what would ten times better be?

Ten times the frequency response? Ten times the SNR? One-tenth the distortion? I'm thinking, to be truly ten times better, it would have to be ALL of those and ten times better at everything else, too. Ten times better is ten times better, right?

Quote:
I can't post any of my "best" since I haven't yet done my best work yet..... but my most decent work I don't own the songs [...]
Ain't that the way it always seems to go?

The people who go on and on and on about how great their gear is and how much better it sounds than other folks' gear can't ever seem to find a way to post examples of it; there's always some reason. We all get it that one typically can't post unreleased work in progress by clients. Well understood. But don't these clients ever RELEASE these amazing sounding records?
Old 28th July 2014
  #492
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Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
But don't these clients ever RELEASE these amazing sounding records?
They're still waiting for a converter that sounds 10 times better than what they had. They will release them then.
Old 28th July 2014
  #493
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
They're still waiting for a converter that sounds 10 times better than what they had. They will release them then.
Everything comes in time...
Old 28th July 2014
  #494
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Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teofunk View Post
Anyone else having a "SmoothVibe" Déjà-vu
I've been in work situations and bands where there was the same Wack-a-Mole phenomenon. Like there's a position that can't remain unfilled.
Old 28th July 2014
  #495
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code green's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Just what would ten times better be?

Ten times the frequency response? Ten times the SNR? One-tenth the distortion? I'm thinking, to be truly ten times better, it would have to be ALL of those and ten times better at everything else, too. Ten times better is ten times better, right?
Ten times better than a bit decimator.





This joke only works with a rudimentary knowledge of Latin, alas.
Old 28th July 2014
  #496
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jimbridgman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I'm not the OP to whom this post is directed, but I have some thoughts on it...
Just what would ten times better be?

Ten times the frequency response? Ten times the SNR? One-tenth the distortion? I'm thinking, to be truly ten times better, it would have to be ALL of those and ten times better at everything else, too. Ten times better is ten times better, right?


Ain't that the way it always seems to go?

The people who go on and on and on about how great their gear is and how much better it sounds than other folks' gear can't ever seem to find a way to post examples of it; there's always some reason. We all get it that one typically can't post unreleased work in progress by clients. Well understood. But don't these clients ever RELEASE these amazing sounding records?
Yeah, I agree. I am not sure you can say without a doubt one converter in the 2-5k range is 10 times anything of another in that range. Now maybe a prism ada8 or the burl MS, but those are 10 times more $$, and again I am not sure you can say all of the traits you mention are 10 times better than say the FF 800, or something similar, like say an apollo or the Antelope Orion even for that matter.

Jim
Old 28th July 2014
  #497
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbridgman View Post
Yeah, I agree. I am not sure you can say without a doubt one converter in the 2-5k range is 10 times anything of another in that range. Now maybe a prism ada8 or the burl MS, but those are 10 times more $$, and again I am not sure you can say all of the traits you mention are 10 times better than say the FF 800, or something similar, like say an apollo or the Antelope Orion even for that matter.

Jim
It's just a foolish, near-nonsensical statement in such a context. To say something is ten times better implies an objective, linear measurement.

A given device might be valued by a given individual ten times higher than some other device, but that is a subjective, personal judgment and is likely to be based on a number of factors that a different individual might weight entirely differently.

If chainrule was to find even a single objectively measurable performance criteria that was truly ten times better in comparisons between these two devices, I would be quite surprised. (Unless one is 2 channels and the other 20, but I'm pretty sure that's not the case. )
Old 28th July 2014
  #498
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12tone's Avatar
 

In general it is difficult to make specific quantitative judgements on qualitative issues...that said, the higher high end equipment gets, it seems it boils down to paying a lot more for a little increase in performance/quality (of that being subjective as well). Assuming you start from a baseline of acceptable performance, it never seems to equate at a linear level in terms of price/performance.
Old 28th July 2014
  #499
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My dad is 10x better than your dad.
Old 29th July 2014
  #500
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kafka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teofunk View Post
Anyone else having a "SmoothVibe" Déjà-vu
Oh, come on. Chainrule couldn't hold a candle to SmoothVibe. Now that guy had style.
Old 29th July 2014
  #501
Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
Oh, come on. Chainrule couldn't hold a candle to SmoothVibe. Now that guy had style.
Ok, ok...chainrule is NOT Smoothvibe...let's leave this one there to protect the innocent!
Old 29th July 2014
  #502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oden View Post
My dad is 10x better than your dad.
heh

We could play the 12x's...

Yo' compressor's sound is so thin, you could hide it behind a mic stand.
Old 29th July 2014
  #503
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I had a Burl. I think today's budget converters are really really good. The BURL,or symphony, or lynx or whatever are not more than thrice better than the very good budget converters. That small difference in sound quality however I think is worth every penny. But converters are not the biggest part of the signal change by a long shot.
Old 29th July 2014
  #504
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyandres View Post
I had a Burl. I think today's budget converters are really really good. The BURL,or symphony, or lynx or whatever are not more than thrice better than the very good budget converters. That small difference in sound quality however I think is worth every penny. But converters are not the biggest part of the signal change by a long shot.
My guess is that either George Martin or Rudy Van Gelder could use a Soundblaster and create some masterpieces...
Old 29th July 2014
  #505
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyandres View Post
I had a Burl. I think today's budget converters are really really good. The BURL,or symphony, or lynx or whatever are not more than thrice better than the very good budget converters. That small difference in sound quality however I think is worth every penny. But converters are not the biggest part of the signal change by a long shot.

My sentiments exactly.

you pay a LOT more for a small increase in quality. For some it's worth it - if the rest of your setup is up to snuff. If not - you might never see the benefit.
Old 29th July 2014
  #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
heh

We could play the 12x's...

Yo' compressor's sound is so thin, you could hide it behind a mic stand.
Yo mama, yo mama......
Old 29th July 2014
  #507
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Yo mama, yo mama......
Yoyo Ma...
Old 29th July 2014
  #508
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MoneySound's Avatar
Uptoolate,
This idea of sheen, that last 10%, or whatever you want to call it, reminds me of watching these youtube vids from waves or whatever, one in particular, where Yoad Nevo uses a few plugs to whip a mix into shape. By the time he's done, it sounds finished and "pro" to me. But at the end of the demonstration, he says he has reached a point with the mix where he can begin to start the real mix work. I think that you may need to find the sheen in the detailed work of manual level riding, tweaking every little thing that's just a bit off etc.
For tracking in an untreated room, your stuff sounds good. But you are at the point where 'good' is not good enough anymore. Roll up your sleeves and get picky; one syllable jumps out, deal with it; one drum hit too soft, deal with it.
I think its a lot of work if the tracking is less than perfect and most of us don't realize it or want to admit it because it is tedious and daunting, but therein lies the sheen.
IMHO
Old 29th July 2014
  #509
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code green's Avatar
^^^ This. And there's no better place to start than orchestration/arrangement. You get another, highly significant whack at it in tracking. Mixing is your next to last chance...with mastering being the last.

To get sheen consistently, whether one's definition is a quantitative one or a qualitative one, it is necessary to appease the sheen gods at each step. Starting at mixing is generally starting too late.

The better the talent, the better your chances.

Past a certain threshold where it's no longer getting in your way, the same generally goes for gear. But (again, past a certain threshold) it's perhaps the least of it...but in an interdependent chain of circumstances where everything matters.
Old 29th July 2014
  #510
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uptoolate's Avatar
 

Thanks again for all the replies.
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