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That Sheen Condenser Microphones
Old 26th July 2014
  #391
You know, the sea change in user opinion about RME suggested by some of these comments is precisely the thing that makes a lot of long time observers chuckle to themselves.

Just as psycho_monkey suggests, it wasn't that long ago that RME was considered around here as making pretty good-sounding boxes. I understand that they've had some support/driver issues. (Who hasn't?) But this day/night flip/flop opinion-of-the-moment mentality that many here evidence seems to reflect both emperor-new-clothes issues and the easy cynicism born of uncertainty and a desire to not let anyone get the conversational drop on one...
Old 26th July 2014
  #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneySound View Post
Just because you and I aren't aware of great recordings on which a FF was used, doesn't mean they don't exist. To say that because the 30 people participating in this thread can't post a link, it proves no great FF recordings exist, is seriously flawed reasoning on your part. The FF800 is very popular - I have a hard time believing nobody is doing good work with it.
People using this level of gear have real clients even if its local bands doing demos. Its not dishonest if you disclose what gear you're using and I suspect, when it comes to converters, many clients don't care. They may want to hear you say "Pro Tools", but likely have never heard of Lavry or Burl.
I too doubt you'll hear a FF on a top 40 hit, but how would I (or you) know for sure? Good luck finding out what converters were used on any popular song unless you stumble across an SOS article providing those details.
you are probably right, however more than 30 posters have defended them here. I just wanted to hear something very high quality done with one, and something done without the use of samples and plugins. If that's too much to ask, I apologize
Old 26th July 2014
  #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbeen View Post
Hey,

There is a FireFace for sale in the classified.

Anyone interested?


I hear they have great conversion!

Fireface 800
I might buy it, do some abx tests
Old 26th July 2014
  #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
it wasn't that long ago that RME was considered around here as making pretty good-sounding boxes..
really? maybe they are good then
Old 26th July 2014
  #395
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When do some of you guys work? lol

JK...good stuff.
Old 26th July 2014
  #396
Quote:
Originally Posted by futura2012 View Post
Whilst I do get what people are saying in regards to clock I think using these SOS articles as some kind of GURU reference certainly hasn't convinced me.
I always take SOS reviews with a pinch of salt, and some of their articles are kinda laughably amateurish.

However - Hugh Robjohns is ex BBC and knows his stuff. His technical articles are usually very good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chainrule View Post
To be honest a couple days back, I read your credits, listened to some of your stuff so I can't argue with you based on that since you have done some awesome stuff!! but............... I really hate the sound of those FF units. Maybe I have some personal agenda against them? Based on that bias it isn't right for me to keep blaming it or slamming. Though In gneral I still think a converter upgrade is due here .........
Thank you for the compliments!

And you're entitled to not like a piece of gear of course - but I just don't think it's what's stopping the OP in his quest. As I've already said - there's bigger reasons why he's not happy with the mix in his 1st couple of examples, and conversion is perhaps only a small part of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chainrule View Post
Why is it people will drop 2k on a new PC every year, but when it comes to buying more stuff that actually matter to recording they make excuses?
It's weird, I bet all the people here who used FF have i7 8core computers with16 gig and SSD. I'm still using a Pentium system with ide hardrives and I only have 4 gig.
Well, your system might be fine if you're mixing OTB with a large setup - most people don't have that (and a well specced computer rig is much cheaper than a fully stocked studio!).

I'm sure I could manage on a G5 PT rig with minimal plugin use IF I had a fully recallable studio AND I had the time to do full recalls/booked out days to mix/assistants to help. As it is, I have to fit my mixing around other sessions and it's rare I get an uninterrupted day to mix! Plus recalling a full setup every time I need to make a revision would be a nightmare...a hybrid setup with some select outboard works the best for me (probably all the stuff you've heard would have been mixed hybrid).

I agree about people's priorities - I just find it odd that more people don't want to optimise their room + monitoring before upgrading everything else. Yes, I know DA is a part of that - but it's IMO a lot smaller part than the acoustics (but then I'm biased there - I studied acoustics!).

I know the thing that made the biggest difference to my quality of work was having a trustworthy, good sounding space that I learned well.
Old 26th July 2014
  #397
Quote:
Originally Posted by chainrule View Post
really? maybe they are good then
Mind you, I'm just reporting what once seemed a moderately widely held opinion -- in the context of their apparently dimmed star in the minds of at least some in this thread.

I don't really have an opinion myself as I've got very limited experience with them and, frankly, my ears are old enough that I wouldn't jump to offer an opinion even if I'd worked with them a good bit.
Old 26th July 2014
  #398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Mind you, I'm just reporting what once seemed a moderately widely held opinion -- in the context of their apparently dimmed star in the minds of at least some in this thread.

I don't really have an opinion myself as I've got very limited experience with them and, frankly, my ears are old enough that I wouldn't jump to offer an opinion even if I'd worked with them a good bit.
I wonder if it was sort of just typical internet hype?? It seems like whenever something new comes out that looks cool, it spreads like wildfire on the net and people really hype it up, not just audio gear either but virtually anything. Then after a while things come down to earth but there is that group of people who read articles or message boards and don't notice the date stamp on it. It's 15 years old and they still assume it's relevant. We can still probably google articles where people are hyping 20 bit adats.
Old 26th July 2014
  #399
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Old 26th July 2014
  #400
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Quote:
I agree about people's priorities - I just find it odd that more people don't want to optimise their room + monitoring before upgrading everything else. Yes, I know DA is a part of that - but it's IMO a lot smaller part than the acoustics (but then I'm biased there - I studied acoustics!).
Since kitting out my room which i am still not 100% happy with this has made my mixes a lot more neutral for all systems.

Im not sure if its me but I can hear things clearer too. At first the "dead" sound took a little getting used to but now im used to it I feel I can concentrate on the audio better. Maybe this is just a placebo effect.

On the topic of "sheen" upgrades do you think by a studio being either trated or non treated it will make a difference to the "sheen"?

Could you argue certain reflections, standing waves etc might contribute to sheen?

I would assume the answer is kind of like the convertors it will help but wont be the Sheen maker or breaker.
Old 26th July 2014
  #401
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To get the results, use this to clean your studio, but please don't use it on your expensive monitor speaker cones, gave it the clean and the sheen but it wiped off the delay/reverb trails/tails off my Focal Twins.

Old 26th July 2014
  #402
Quote:
Originally Posted by chainrule View Post
I wonder if it was sort of just typical internet hype?? It seems like whenever something new comes out that looks cool, it spreads like wildfire on the net and people really hype it up, not just audio gear either but virtually anything. Then after a while things come down to earth but there is that group of people who read articles or message boards and don't notice the date stamp on it. It's 15 years old and they still assume it's relevant. We can still probably google articles where people are hyping 20 bit adats.
People are very faddish.

And it works both ways. When a piece of kit becomes popular and widely adopted -- no matter how good the initial word of mouth, how good the measured performance, the reviews, and particularly if it was affordable -- it will gain a number of detractors who habitually grind their axe on it. Sometimes it's because they bought one and didn't think it was all that, but often enough they haven't owned one maybe haven't even used one in a studio, they just pick up the drumbeat of the negative and, as noted earlier, perhaps afraid of being one-upped by someone, get their shot in. Because, of course, if you're putting something down, you must be above it.

Very typical human behavior, I'm afraid. Not restricted to the gear hound sector, but, of course, we're particularly subject to it because there are so many egos involved, so many people trying to put up an 'experienced,' 'knowledgeable' front, and, of course, so little actual technical understanding among so many.

Old 26th July 2014
  #403
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The point of posting something like 'Blackbird' is that the sheen was there in the room when they were playing and singing. What matters next is the skill level of those that brought it from there to your speakers/earphones and the quality of the equipment and processes they utilized to do it. This process did not make any sheen.

A lot of it is lost digitizing it and listening on YouTube. Put that vinyl on a proper playback system and you will be much closer to being in that room. I do this almost daily.
Old 26th July 2014
  #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Sometimes it's because they bought one and didn't think it was all that,
And in many of those cases, the truth is that their music and/or recording skills aren't really all that and they found something new to blame it on.
Old 26th July 2014
  #405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
And in many of those cases, the truth is that their music and/or recording skills aren't really all that and they found something new to blame it on.
Well, sometimes a piece of hyped gear or software really isn't 'all that' -- but, that's kind of a product of what you allude to, as well: a lot of folks seem to look for the holy grail that's going to make it all magically come together at last. But, as I've scribbled before, just as the Hermetics of old noted when they warned the avaricious and foolish against misinterpreting the writing of the original alchemists, the true gold comes from within. Good gear is, well, good. But knowledge borne of experience is transcendent.

Not to get all cosmic on y'all.
Old 26th July 2014
  #406
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You lot still going on about whether a Firaface is 'all that' or not? It isn't.
Old 26th July 2014
  #407
007
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Yep.

Old 26th July 2014
  #408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
You lot still going on about whether a Firaface is 'all that' or not? It isn't.
I'm tryin' to herd the li'l doggies away from the coral marked 'Opinions of the Moment' and toward the one marked 'Eternal Truths'... but their hooves raise a fair amount of dust and it can get hard to see at times.
Old 26th July 2014
  #409
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Waiting for the enlightened pundits to chime in with the beneficial attributes of Scientology e-meters on the notion of 'sheen' in audio...
Old 26th July 2014
  #410
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
Waiting for the enlightened pundits to chime in with the beneficial attributes of [...] e-meters on the notion of 'sheen' in audio...
Now THERE is a piece of kit! Sure, maybe all it does is measure electrical resistance of the skin, but, dang, it's got gleam to spare.


E-meter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Old 26th July 2014
  #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Now THERE is a piece of kit! Sure, maybe all it does is measure electrical resistance of the skin, but, dang, it's got gleam to spare.


E-meter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Slutz r funny.
Old 26th July 2014
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I'm tryin' to herd the li'l doggies away from the coral marked 'Opinions of the Moment' and toward the one marked 'Eternal Truths'... but their hooves raise a fair amount of dust and it can get hard to see at times.
theblue1, the cowboy of eternal truths...love it.

Watch so they don't stampede on ya.
Old 26th July 2014
  #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
The point of posting something like 'Blackbird' is that the sheen was there in the room when they were playing and singing. What matters next is the skill level of those that brought it from there to your speakers/earphones and the quality of the equipment and processes they utilized to do it. This process did not make any sheen.

A lot of it is lost digitizing it and listening on YouTube. Put that vinyl on a proper playback system and you will be much closer to being in that room. I do this almost daily.
But they tracked on 1/2 in 4 track through v72s, real u47s, great compressors. It's not a realistic comparison when you have that Abbey road room. It's arguably the best live room in the world of all time....... not to mention George martin calling the shots. How could it not sound good? you would have to be a moron with those variables to not have it sound amazing.

While we would all like to think Paul just rolled out of bed at 9am, wrote blackbird by 9:30.... drove to abbeyroad and played it live in one take by noon time and then broke for lunch while the tune was being mixed and mastered, is all cool in a dream but the probably spent a week micing that guitar and tweaking that song for a month. No offense to the fab four they are the greatest band of all time, but they spent 6 months making records with studio musicians and in the best studio in the world all with Sir George Martin telling them what to do. Sorry but it's not realistic to compare anything a normal musician would record with that of the Beatles. They did that for their day jobs and they spent 12 hour days in the studio and the best studio with the best personnel.

let's hear blackbird done on a fireface with an audiotechnica 2020 through stock pres in an untreated bedroom with tad donelly at the controls...since that is the norm. and it would suck
Old 26th July 2014
  #414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
theblue1, the cowboy of eternal truths...love it.

Watch so they don't stampede on ya.
More like the rodeo clown of eternal truths... I just try to keep the real cowboys from getting gored or trampled... while giving the crowd some laughs. heh
Old 26th July 2014
  #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chainrule View Post
But they tracked on 1/2 in 4 track through v72s, real u47s, great compressors. It's not a realistic comparison when you have that Abbey road room. It's arguably the best live room in the world of all time....... not to mention George martin calling the shots. How could it not sound good? you would have to be a moron with those variables to not have it sound amazing.

While we would all like to think Paul just rolled out of bed at 9am, wrote blackbird by 9:30.... drove to abbeyroad and played it live in one take by noon time and then broke for lunch while the tune was being mixed and mastered, is all cool in a dream but the probably spent a week micing that guitar and tweaking that song for a month. No offense to the fab four they are the greatest band of all time, but they spent 6 months making records with studio musicians and in the best studio in the world all with Sir George Martin telling them what to do. Sorry but it's not realistic to compare anything a normal musician would record with that of the Beatles. They did that for their day jobs and they spent 12 hour days in the studio and the best studio with the best personnel.

let's hear blackbird done on a fireface with an audiotechnica 2020 through stock pres in an untreated bedroom with tad donelly at the controls...since that is the norm. and it would suck
As a matter of fact they came ready and recorded most of their songs very quickly, that is well known. It wouldn't take a week to mic' up the guitar. More likely 5 minutes. I have no idea what you are even trying to argue. Then again I've been confused about that from your first post.
Old 26th July 2014
  #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
Now THERE is a piece of kit! Sure, maybe all it does is measure electrical resistance of the skin, but, dang, it's got gleam to spare.


E-meter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
errily reminiscent of the Focusrite red series...hmmm...or gasp, a Line6 pod...
Old 26th July 2014
  #417
The Red Kidney POD XT! Oh my gosh, you are right!

That could provoke a really interesting round of lawsuits... heh
Old 26th July 2014
  #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
The Red Kidney POD XT! Oh my gosh, you are right!

That could provoke a really interesting round of lawsuits... heh
Yup...but don't mess with them Scientology lawyers - they could prove Rip Taylor and Charles Nelson Reilly as the paragon of heterosexuality...let alone TC or JT...
Old 26th July 2014
  #419
I think we have to change the subject now.
Old 26th July 2014
  #420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblue1 View Post
I think we have to change the subject now.
I agree wholeheartedly, many pages ago...albeit without conclusivity on the efficacy of the RME FF 800...oh well, c'est la vie...
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