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Perfectly neutral vocal condenser with zero mojo, flavor or color? Condenser Microphones
Old 26th March 2014
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt thomas View Post
I wonder if anyone will notice that the OP has already made his decision heh
but I haven't listed all my favorites yet!!
Old 28th March 2014
  #62
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kirkbross's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
Indeed the TLM170 is the ticket... or TLM193.
If I had $3k I'd get a Pearlman TM-47... if I had $1600 I'd get a Pearlman TM-1... for some color... or maybe an AR-51.
Old 28th March 2014
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swurveman View Post
+1
+2 for the 4050
Old 28th March 2014
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legato View Post
... rubber (speakers) ...
rubber speakers?? interesting ...
Old 28th March 2014
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkbross View Post
I was teasing when I said it sounds nothing like I hear it in my head... implying the mic transformed the "pure" sound into something unintended.

But... you are correct there is way too much verb... it was a very quick mix and I wanted the vocals to be back and soaked for a specific reason but will have a dryer vocal in the final version with real drums and piano.

Out of curiosity, could you tell the drums, piano, guitars and fretless are fake? (Superior Drummer, Goliath fretless, Omnisphere guitars and East West QL Pianos).
You tricked me from the beginning. I will say that once you told me, i noticed that the piano doesn't brighten up with harder playing in the big chorus like a real one might. But see, that could have been in my head, because you told me.
Old 28th March 2014
  #66
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kirkbross's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigGreen View Post
+2 for the 4050
It's completely irrational, I know, but I can't shake the perception of Audio Technica as a pro-sumer company.

Clearly a $3K AT5040 can't be anything but "good" but I would never buy one.
Old 28th March 2014
  #67
I don't get neutral and a 4050, for good clean and relatively uncolored try a Milab VIP50
Old 28th March 2014
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe View Post
rubber speakers?? interesting ...
You'll get it.
Old 28th March 2014
  #69
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Ryan Silva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by WunderBro Flo View Post
I would never call any 414 uncolored. strong proximity effect and midrange bumps in different areas. The only mic which I consider pretty pretty pretty much natural (in a very beautiful way) are our nevaton mk51 mics. ugly fuccers but sonic beauties. and totally unknown.

I think the 414b-uls is pretty flat. I wouldn't count the proximity effect as all cardioids are in that category.
Old 28th March 2014
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkbross View Post
Clearly a $3K AT5040 can't be anything but "good" but I would never buy one.
Last year, I got to ask Frank Filipeti how he would characterize the sound of the 5040.

He said: "amazing"
Old 28th March 2014
  #71
Les
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I'm a mic manufacturer, so we have very flat very low distortion lab mics for testing.
When we try one in the studio, it usually sound bad to me.
That being said, we design pretty flat (on axis) mics without the often seen sharp peaks in the mids and highs.
Such mics in my opinion take EQ better.
Old 31st March 2014
  #72
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kirkbross's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Silva View Post
I think the 414b-uls is pretty flat. I wouldn't count the proximity effect as all cardioids are in that category.
OP here... got my new 414B-ULS and love it. Smooth and full.

When I A-B it with my $200 Rode NT2, the Rode sounds thinner and brighter in the upper mids... but it's hard to tell if it sounds "cheaper" or just different. Perhaps that's a philosophical debate.
Old 31st March 2014
  #73
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by WunderBro Flo View Post
I would never call any 414 uncolored.
+1.

What about the solid-state Sony C38 and the similar C48, etc. Those are real sleeper mics that are quite 'neutral' sounding and usually below $1500.
Old 31st March 2014
  #74
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WunderBro Flo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkbross View Post
OP here... got my new 414B-ULS and love it. Smooth and full.

When I A-B it with my $200 Rode NT2, the Rode sounds thinner and brighter in the upper mids... but it's hard to tell if it sounds "cheaper" or just different. Perhaps that's a philosophical debate.
not trying to be a smartass, but look at my post #55 here. ok, I AM being a smartass right now
Old 31st March 2014
  #75
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WunderBro Flo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker View Post
+1.

What about the solid-state Sony C38 and the similar C48, etc. Those are real sleeper mics that are quite 'neutral' sounding and usually below $1500.
to me both are wonderful but not neutral. the c48 is trying to be a u87 (and succeeds really well) while the c38 is an amazingly old sounding mic, kind of like a ribbon like condenser without as much need for eq though. love them both. been looking for a c38b forever...
Old 31st March 2014
  #76
MiLab DC196 No coloration, no HF peaking, but "etched" detail while remaining smooth.

IMHO, runs circles around any 414 flavor made to date that I've ever tried and that includes most of the ones made in the last 15 or 20 years.

Just used a pair (set to cardioid pattern) on a 26 voice mixed chorus (spaced about 2 meters from the front row of singers and was quite pleased with the accuracy and amazing detail of each voice.

I also like the original AT 4050CM5 on most [solo] female singers if you keep them from swallowing the mic (12 inches away seems to be a nice distance) and use a two-layer pop filter.
Old 1st April 2014
  #77
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doorknocker's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by WunderBro Flo View Post
to me both are wonderful but not neutral. the c48 is trying to be a u87 (and succeeds really well) while the c38 is an amazingly old sounding mic, kind of like a ribbon like condenser without as much need for eq though. love them both. been looking for a c38b forever...
Thanks for these observations. I own a C37A which is a great mic but very smooth in the hi-end and anything but neutral.

I was under the impression that the C38B was much more 'neutral' sounding especially on louder sources but I admit I haven't personally used that mic (yet)

Then again, the way that so many 'modern' condensors hype the upper range might lead one into thinking that older designs are 'coloured' whereas they are rather more true to the source. I always felt that recording through ribbons like the Coles 4038 is much like being in the room with the source but that's just my opinion.

I think what you need to do is to listen to say a vocalist in the room and then compare it to the recording instead of judging the recorded sound on its own. I just think we often equal 'clean' with something that has a lot of hi-end from either the mic or EQ or most likely both.
Old 1st April 2014
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkbross View Post
It's completely irrational, I know, but I can't shake the perception of Audio Technica as a pro-sumer company.

Clearly a $3K AT5040 can't be anything but "good" but I would never buy one.
Interesting,.. How did you get past that bias with the Rode?


D
Old 1st April 2014
  #79
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkbross View Post
If I had $3k I'd get a Pearlman TM-47... if I had $1600 I'd get a Pearlman TM-1... for some color... or maybe an AR-51.
those are different sounds
Old 1st April 2014
  #80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus 7 View Post
MiLab DC196 No coloration, no HF peaking, but "etched" detail while remaining smooth.

IMHO, runs circles around any 414 flavor made to date that I've ever tried and that includes most of the ones made in the last 15 or 20 years.

Just used a pair (set to cardioid pattern) on a 26 voice mixed chorus (spaced about 2 meters from the front row of singers and was quite pleased with the accuracy and amazing detail of each voice.

I also like the original AT 4050CM5 on most [solo] female singers if you keep them from swallowing the mic (12 inches away seems to be a nice distance) and use a two-layer pop filter.
The VIP50 is the large diaphragm big brother to that mic. Steve Remote the remote forum moderator is a big user of them and the original DC96. Nice mics both.
Old 1st April 2014
  #81
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I always wanted to try a sennheiser mkh416 on a singer. It's an industry standard for voice over. I'm wondering if anyone tried it on a singer.
Old 2nd April 2014
  #82
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kirkbross's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigGreen View Post
Interesting,.. How did you get past that bias with the Rode?

I bought it in 1997 when I didn't know anything and it was one of the very few low priced condensers on the market.

(I win)

Old 2nd April 2014
  #83
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zohomoho's Avatar
 

The new version of the rode nt1 is about as flat as you can get.
Old 2nd April 2014
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zohomoho View Post
The new version of the rode nt1 is about as flat as you can get.
This mic is a bit flatter
Attached Images
Perfectly neutral vocal condenser with zero mojo, flavor or color?-images.jpg 
Old 2nd April 2014
  #85
Gear Head
 

+1 on the Sanken CU-41.
Old 2nd April 2014
  #86
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diegel View Post
I always wanted to try a sennheiser mkh416 on a singer. It's an industry standard for voice over. I'm wondering if anyone tried it on a singer.
The 416 is used for voice-replacement at it was the same mic. that was used on location and would therefore have the same character.

I have used an MKH 40 for vocals - very clean and with no character of its own - worked beautifully. But then she was an excellent singer with a good voice.

For an LDC, the Gefell M930 is ruler flat at vocal frequencies.
Old 2nd April 2014
  #87
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John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zohomoho View Post
The new version of the rode nt1 is about as flat as you can get.
No it's not, it has an HF hump.

The Sennheiser MKH 40 is as flat as you can get.

You can see both frequency response curves below (MKH 40 on the left, new NT1 on the right - the NT1 is the red one).

.
Attached Thumbnails
Perfectly neutral vocal condenser with zero mojo, flavor or color?-mkh-40.jpg   Perfectly neutral vocal condenser with zero mojo, flavor or color?-new-nt1.jpg  
Old 2nd April 2014
  #88
Lives for gear
Here is a nice comparison of a 416 and an 8060. I prefer the 416. It has that familiar sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPziiB813GE
Old 2nd April 2014
  #89
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Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
I don't get neutral and a 4050, for good clean and relatively uncolored try a Milab VIP50
+1 Great suggestion! And ridiculously undervalued when you see them second hand, too. SERIOUS microphone.
Old 2nd April 2014
  #90
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by 666666 View Post
I experienced two different 414 XLS mics some years ago... in two different settings / projects. And each time I felt the exact same way about the mic. Overly pronounced, jagged broken glass ultra high-end. Nothing like the older 414s... and much worse. I'm surprised that so many slutz are defending the x-series 414s, it makes me consider that maybe I just happened to experience two defective ones....? Or, is it possible that there was an early run that was bad and then they re-tweaked them after that??? (Because the two I experienced were some of the very first x-series, not long after they were very first introduced). Who knows. But I don't plan on getting any to re-test.

I have avoided 414s exactly for the reason you suggested. I have always found the top end synthesised and unnatural.

Back on topic. I echo the OMNI SDC comments. I've used some B&Ks in the past and they sound really honest in representing the original source.

Tony
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