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Drumset mic placement, underheads and bullit mic
Old 13th February 2014
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
DaPhunk73's Avatar
 

Drumset mic placement, underheads and bullit mic

Found this interesting clip on youtube

Into The Lair #56 - Tracking Drums with Greg Wells and Ian MacGregor [FULL] - YouTube

with some interesting drumset micing techniques, especially the "underheads", and the bullit mic between kick and snare.
Not the most common mic placements, I am certainly going to check them out.
Anyone who has experience with any of them?

Kim
DaPhunk73 - YouTube
Old 13th February 2014
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

This is a good video.
Old 13th February 2014
  #3
Lives for gear
Very cool video. As a drummer of 20 years, and as someone who records drums quite often, I'm not sure how I feel about those "underheads." I have no doubt that they can get a good sound with that technique, but it almost looks to me like they're doing that as a bit of a compromise due to the size of the room. The room looks pretty small and confined, and I wouldn't be surprised if they have low ceilings, making true overheads a bit difficult to work with.

I would take that with a grain of salt...Though it might work well in their studio on their gear with their microphones, it may not work best for you in your studio with your gear and your microphones. I don't know if you can really beat having a good overhead stereo image of a kit in a good sounding room.

Ribbon microphones do sound really great on cymbals. Here are some pictures of the drummer from White Denim in the studio using Coles as overheads, and M160s as "underheads" for the cymbals. He gets one of the best drum sounds I've ever heard (at least I like it...) and he does most of the engineering for the band.
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Drumset mic placement, underheads and bullit mic-287617_419366971452955_793964419_o.jpg   Drumset mic placement, underheads and bullit mic-296642_419366924786293_1647507347_n.jpg  
Old 13th February 2014
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Blaine Misner's Avatar
 

i'm just assuming one would flip the phase of the underhead mics in this set up... using the beyers, though, wouldn't this make it so you are picking up the rear of the mic?
Old 14th February 2014
  #5
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andychamp's Avatar
@ wcx08:

Sorry for the slight hijack, but who makes those large mic stands holding the two Coles mics?
Old 14th February 2014
  #6
Lives for gear
@Blaine Misner
It would make sense that you would have to flip the phase...But I'm not entirely sure how that works with a figure-eight. I don't own any of those types of mics!

@andychamp
I just did a quick internet search, and judging by the handles/knobs on those stands in those pictures, it might be this model:
Ultimate Support MC-125 | Sweetwater.com
Old 14th February 2014
  #7
Lives for gear
 
andychamp's Avatar
The Beyer M160 are hypercardioid, not fig.-8.
Fig.-8 mics are bidirectional, but reversing their polarity won't change which side picks up sound (it's still both sides), but the AC they emit will be electrically reversed.
As to the situation in the photos: since polarity is absolute and phase is frequency-dependent, only trial-and-error will reveal whether the Beyers should be reversed relatively to the Coles. Some frequencies will cancel out, some will add up. Ears will tell.

@wcx08: thanks for the info!
Old 14th February 2014
  #8
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Beardhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wcx08 View Post
Ribbon microphones do sound really great on cymbals. Here are some pictures of the drummer from White Denim in the studio using Coles as overheads, and M160s as "underheads" for the cymbals. He gets one of the best drum sounds I've ever heard (at least I like it...) and he does most of the engineering for the band.
Love the kit. So the underheads are cymbal close mikes here? Isn't there the danger of phasing having them pointing at the edge of the cymbals?
But +1 for the M160 as overheads.
Old 14th February 2014
  #9
Lives for gear
I thought we were referring to flipping the phase of the Royers in the video, which are figure eight. You wouldn't have to worry about any figure-eight craziness when flipping the phase of the M160s. If I had to guess, I'd say that the drummer in that photo just uses the "underhead" mics to reinforce the overall image of the kit and cymbals coming from the Coles, much like close-micing toms and snare.

Check out the drum sounds on any of these following White Denim records: D, Last Day Of Summer, Cosricana Lemonade. D, especially, has some of my favorite sounding drums on them. BUT NOTHING TOUCHES JON THEODORE ON DELOUSED IN THE COMATORIUM BY THE MARS VOLTA!!! Sorry I had to get that out...Unfortunately I have no idea how those drums were recorded. Rick Ruben was involved, so that may be the secret weapon.
Old 15th February 2014
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

White denim get's a great drum sound. You can tell it's only a few mics. I will be recording a super fast punk rock/grind band soon which I am very happy about but I will probably use a similar setup- Ribbons all around and compress the heck out of the room mics.
Old 15th February 2014
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Thought the purpose of the "under heads" in the Greg Wells video was two use the null of the figure 8 to cancel out the drums??? Certainly a different technique then using M160s...

"As to the situation in the photos: since polarity is absolute and phase is frequency-dependent, only trial-and-error will reveal whether the Beyers should be reversed relatively to the Coles. Some frequencies will cancel out, some will add up. Ears will tell." <<<<------ THIS!!!
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