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Track summing hardware
Old 26th September 2002
Track summing hardware

What else are you guys using to sum you DAW tracks other than the Dangerous 2-Bus?
Old 27th September 2002
The other popular alternative while expensive is the Amek DIB. It sounds good(to my ears it was more musical than the Dangerous box) and you can build it up as big as you want. Steve Firlotte also has a box he is making which is similar to the Dangerous Box, but with more inputs. It is also more expensive.
Old 27th September 2002
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TinderArts's Avatar

Plug alert!!! rollz

Paul Wolff (API) has designed a single space 8 ch summing mixer. Each channel has level, pan, & 2 aux sends. They are linkable and have insert points on the master. He's made a few so far and ATI (the company that bought API from Paul) is considering the product for general release.

Contact Paul ([email protected]) for more info.
Old 27th September 2002
Lives for gear

There's also the Manley...
Old 28th September 2002
Gear Maniac

How much is the Paul Wolff ?

Anyone know if the Api 3124 mixer version is linkable? or perhapse they should just make an 8 pre version as that would make a great summing bus and input channel.
Old 28th September 2002
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hollywood_steve's Avatar

summing hardware

Paul Wolff (API) has designed a single space 8 ch summing mixer. Each channel has level, pan, & 2 aux sends

Never having actually seen an API 7800, I've wondered why it couldn't be used just like the proposed product above? I know that the 7800 was designed to work with the 7600 strips, but why couldn't it work with any preamps?

[email protected]
Old 30th September 2002
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TinderArts's Avatar

I just got back from Paul's place and it looks like something will be shown at AES. It will be a 8ch unit designed to work with the 7800 master module and the 7600 channel strip. The summing mixer seems like it will be more affordable than one might imagine.yuktyy rollz heh
Old 4th October 2002
Actually I was looking for something cheaper . But it's all good, we're all gearslutz right??
So I just saw the post about the 2 bus LT... looks good to me.
Old 5th October 2002
Gear Addict
Curious G's Avatar

Anybody seen/used the Boutique Audio SBM-2?
Old 8th October 2002
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TinderArts's Avatar

Originally posted by etherize
How much is the Paul Wolff ?

It's going to list for about 2k, but should have a bit more room for discount than other API products.
Old 8th October 2002
Gear Maniac

so that means $4000 list for 16 channels verses $1500 for the Dangerousbuss lt....maybe if API made one with Dsub connectors like the LT it coule be cheaper?

Is the only difference in the 2 dangerousbuss units the connectors? Is that how they got the price down?
Old 8th October 2002
That's a good question... how do they take $1k out...
Old 9th October 2002
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chap's Avatar

2 cents

Not to beat a dead horse but..I've just purchased the Dangerous 2 Buss. It's price is closer to $2500 and it sounds jaw dropping good. Greg Calbi turned me on to it (although Jules was the first to mention it). Greg uses it on all his mastering
jobs (that use PT or DAW stuff) at Sterling Sound.
I was stunned by the difference. Completely musical and great image retention as well as no digital masking. I liked it so much that I bought the Dangerous Monitor module and am having them build a few other things so I can ditch my board.
I've played it for several 'name' guys who had the same reaction.

good luck
Old 11th October 2002
Gear Addict

hi folks, this is from an email i got from bob at dangerous about differences between their two models.

" The differences between the 2-Bus and the LT are: the 2-Bus has a +6dB gain circuit for each input pair, the LT does not. The 2-Bus has a stepped attenuator output gain gontrol, the LT has a stereo potentiometer. They use different switches. The 2-Bus is 2RU with XLR ins and outs, the LT is 1RU with 25-pin D connectors for the inputs, and XLR outs.
There are a few differences in component choice and layout, but the basic circuit architecture and the amps we use are all the same. The LT employs more surface mount components than the D2B. They both spec out pretty respectably..... The 2-Bus performs slightly better, particularly for crosstalk at higher frequencies. As for the qualitative difference in sound, it is highly subjective - they both work great, and sound nearly identical."
Old 11th October 2002
Re: Track summing hardware

A couple of us here in NYC are thinking of putting together some kind of shootout between different summing boxes. We did a converter shootout last year for Pro Tools(which was a big success). The winner was the Prism AD-8 followed by the Cranesong 192. Now a lot of us that use Pro Tools professionally are going to try it again. The candidates will be: The Dangerous boxes, Amek DIB, Steve Firlotte's box(Inward Connections) distributed by Boutique Audio and hopefully that new box by Paul Wolff. We will use an HD 192 box as the source and record the results to either Masterlink or back into HD(we are debating this one as I type). Its coming together little by little, so hopefully next month we can do this. Last year it was by invitation only(Major studio owners,top record/film mixers and Pro Tool engineers in the city). What i hope to do is to make a CD for people that would like to hear the results. But I've seen in the past where this could get a little crazy.

Hopefully this will be straight forward. If you guys can think of any other boxes, please let me know. Last year all of the converters were donated by the engineers themselves(mine being the Crane Song 192), so we have to get access to some of these boxes. So far I know guys that own one of each of the above, with the exception being Paul's box(by then it shouldn't be a problem obtaining one).

Originally posted by jeronimo
What else are you guys using to sum you DAW tracks other than the Dangerous 2-Bus?
Old 12th October 2002
Lives for gear

don't forget, Goeff Daking has a 24 channel summing bus, with vol-pan-4 aux send on each channel for less than $ 5000. This should be interesting.
Old 12th October 2002
"A couple of us here in NYC are thinking of putting together some kind of shootout between different summing boxes"

super cool, I would say make a big effort to get as many folks there as possible.

Have a tone blast at the beginning of a mix on PT (for recorder calibration) then the mix - Capture that with ... a Masterlink at 96k? (Hedd as AD would be cooler!)

Dont forget The Manley 16ch mixer

Doing thet shoot out in an SSL room would be cool.

To see if any of them were superior to SSL suming

(I wonder how many components the audio goes through when yoiu engage the eq and dynamic's section on one of those?)


Mentally I have a picture of the winner, but I am not saying!

Old 13th October 2002
Hi Jules,

You are right about the Manley(almost forgot this one).

An SSL room might be a little tricky, but doable. Its up to the guys, but I will run it by them.

I was thinking a song recorded in HD at 48K(what most of us work at), out to the summing boxes, then recorded on the Masterlink at 24 bit 44.1K and 88.2K. I've noticed the conversion in the Masterlink sounds better at 88.2k then 96K.

You have an idea huh? Well I've heard already the Dangerous box, the Amek DIB, and the Manley mixer. I am looking forward to hearing Steve's box(Inward Connection) distributed by Boutique Audio.
Old 13th October 2002
Here for the gear

I am experimenting with an API 3124M+ for my drum submixes and a Spider for the guitars,vox,bass,keys ect..Whats cool is I take the API submix and go into the insert on the Spiders 2 bus and it to gets the same adc and tape treatment.This definately imparts a sound of it's own that you may or may not like.dfegad
Old 14th October 2002
Other than Dangerous (don't forget about the Lite version with DB25 terminations). There's the Daking Console, Crane Song Spider, Millennia Media Mixing Suite, and Vintech is going to be making a summing bus for the new 473 with St.Ives iron on the line inputs.
Old 14th October 2002
Gear Addict

bump ! don't forget the dangerous lt version.
Old 14th October 2002
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RKrizman's Avatar

Originally posted by vudoo
don't forget, Goeff Daking has a 24 channel summing bus, with vol-pan-4 aux send on each channel for less than $ 5000. This should be interesting.
Can you elaborate on this?

Old 15th October 2002
I think he made an error, he must be talking about the Daking 16 x 2 for around $35,000 there is no Daking console or summing that is $5000.
Old 15th October 2002
Lives for gear

YES !! there is a Daking console for under $ 5000....24 chanel with level, pan and 4 Aux send. Geoff had costum built a few and since there's a new trend about track summing console...he will probably add it to his current line of product.
Just give him a call, he can tell you all about it...don't rely on the info on his site only, he custom built many other consoles that nobody knows about.
BTW, i just bought 8 of his pre/eq...i LOVE them. They sound so amazing on my drums...and i prefer the eq's over all the plug-ins i have ( Waves Renaissance, Sony Oxford, McDSP...).
I usually get hired to track drums on album and movie project. The producer often lock a studio for 1-2 day at about $ 2500 per i do everything in my home studio with a ProTools HD2 and the Dakings...the tracks come out just as good or better than these multi million $$ studio...hihi !! just love it !!!
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