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Partnership or 50 000 budget for studio Condenser Microphones
Old 4th December 2013
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Partnership or 50 000 budget for studio

I am pretty sure this is the wrong place for this thread but I couldn't find a place that was apt. As a matter of fact, I could be in the wrong forum all together but I know the people on this forum will be able to give me good advice.

Let's say I have $50 000 to invest in a studio. This isn't much money but it might be ok to start with and then as time goes buy, keep getting more gear and expand.

My other option is to form a partnership with someone who also wants to invest $50 000 in a studio and with $100 000 we should be getting closer to a decent studio. I said "DECENT".... now I know this isn't a fortune but it is better than $50 000 which I currently have.

My 2 questions for the forum are:

1) Would you rather go solo and start small or get a partner and combine forces and capital?
2) Which would be the quickest path to covering your investment/s based on what you could charge per hour for each studio (the 50K one or the 100k one)?

Appreciate any advice
Old 4th December 2013
  #2
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narcoman's Avatar
 

the only advice i can offer is this:

The budget you have alone is fine BUT a studio is not a business at all (not unless you are at the very zenith of the cycle ).

No - a studio is a tool used by people running a business. I have 4 studios in the UK. All pretty well specced. BUT not one of them is rented out as a studio for others to use or bands to record in. I would look for a business partner with a business model that requires a studio.

As an aside - I have just watched someone build a brilliant facility for about 600,000 here in the UK. It has now dawned on them that they've just spent all that money for nothing as they do not have a business model... but heck, they have a brilliant studio that nobody is using!!

Of course - you may already have considered that and this is indeed your plan. In which case - carry on!!
Old 4th December 2013
  #3
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
I am pretty sure this is the wrong place for this thread but I couldn't find a place that was apt. As a matter of fact, I could be in the wrong forum all together but I know the people on this forum will be able to give me good advice.

Let's say I have $50 000 to invest in a studio. This isn't much money but it might be ok to start with and then as time goes buy, keep getting more gear and expand.

My other option is to form a partnership with someone who also wants to invest $50 000 in a studio and with $100 000 we should be getting closer to a decent studio. I said "DECENT".... now I know this isn't a fortune but it is better than $50 000 which I currently have.

My 2 questions for the forum are:

1) Would you rather go solo and start small or get a partner and combine forces and capital?
2) Which would be the quickest path to covering your investment/s based on what you could charge per hour for each studio (the 50K one or the 100k one)?

Appreciate any advice
PM'd you.
Old 4th December 2013
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
jstummbillig's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
No - a studio is a tool used by people running a business. I have 4 studios in the UK. All pretty well specced. BUT not one of them is rented out as a studio for others to use or bands to record in. I would look for a business partner with a business model that requires a studio.
I am curious as to what it is you do exactly and what is being done in your studios, if you care to elaborate? You are talking about "business partners" but also ruling out "renting to others" and "bands to record in" at the same time. I would like to hear the story.
Old 4th December 2013
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
I am pretty sure this is the wrong place for this thread but I couldn't find a place that was apt. As a matter of fact, I could be in the wrong forum all together but I know the people on this forum will be able to give me good advice.

Let's say I have $50 000 to invest in a studio. This isn't much money but it might be ok to start with and then as time goes buy, keep getting more gear and expand.

My other option is to form a partnership with someone who also wants to invest $50 000 in a studio and with $100 000 we should be getting closer to a decent studio. I said "DECENT".... now I know this isn't a fortune but it is better than $50 000 which I currently have.

My 2 questions for the forum are:

1) Would you rather go solo and start small or get a partner and combine forces and capital?
2) Which would be the quickest path to covering your investment/s based on what you could charge per hour for each studio (the 50K one or the 100k one)?

Appreciate any advice
Personally I'd choose 3) get a reputation to the point where I'm losing money by NOT having a studio. Then I'd build/buy a studio of exactly the size I need. And have it as a private production space.

The problem is - there's already more studios than the industry need. There's certainly more small studios than the industry needs. And $50k is a small studio - you could spend more than that on room build easily.

To make a studio build a worthwhile investment, you really need the clients to book it out in place first. If you don't have that - forget it. Just building it doesn't mean anyone will come.

The concept of "I'll build a great studio, I'll get amazing clients and become a famous engineer" doesn't exist and never has. What do you want to do - engineer or be a salesman/manager?

This question comes up every couple of months on GS, and unfortunately usually ends up with the OP getting trashed for their naivety. Which is a shame, but probably better than someone losing $50k on a bad business venture.
Old 4th December 2013
  #6
Gear Addict
 
Sino's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
Let's say I have $50 000 to invest in a studio. This isn't much money but it might be ok to start with and then as time goes buy, keep getting more gear and expand.

My other option is to form a partnership with someone who also wants to invest $50 000 in a studio and with $100 000 we should be getting closer to a decent studio. I said "DECENT".... now I know this isn't a fortune but it is better than $50 000 which I currently have.

My 2 questions for the forum are:

1) Would you rather go solo and start small or get a partner and combine forces and capital?
2) Which would be the quickest path to covering your investment/s based on what you could charge per hour for each studio (the 50K one or the 100k one)?

Appreciate any advice
It's all about what you need.

I'll give my example so you have another POW:

After year or work, buyin and selling gear I decided to sell lot of analogue gear I had and invested my monitor in a good producing/mixing room @ home. Lot of ITB, fits my workflow... kept a couple of 512 and some mics to do overdubs, ac guitar and vocal recording when producing.

The problem was that I had a mountain of analog gear and (believe it or not) I was using only 30% of it due do numerous factors.

If I wanted to track drums @ home I should have invested something like 30-40k $ to get preamps, microphones and I/O (+ cables, + stand, + cue system, + probably a drumkit?), without even considering the REAL PROBLEM which actually is the ROOM (treated or not, I don't have the possibility to have 15ft ceiling here...).

The question is, how often do you track drums?

I do lot of pop/songwriter drums are usually samples or similar..

If I need to record drums for a song I spend like 400$ and go to a big studio (they're always available these days..) for a whole day. The big studio features awesome drum room, a choice of drumkits + a selection of new and vintage mics and preamps (..I'd say.. what else?). Going in the studio also have a positive vibe for the band and actually helps them to stay a bit more "serious" and focused on the work.

With the money I may have spent for tracking (mediocre) drums @*home I can go about 100 times in a big studio to track drums with all the gear I want.

I know I could do the same for mixing but actually for that process I find better having a place @*home where I can easily rest, doing something else... going downstair for a lunch while I stream the mix on my cheap system in cooking room to hear how it sounds... And when we're pre-producing the artist wants to [email protected], if he wants to open a can of beer and light up a joint in my mixing room he can do it without any problem.

To conclude I'd just say that I won't start up a partnership in 99% of cases, this means double budget but also half time in the studio. May be good if you are different operators (= you engineer and he's musician) but remember that you'll need to charge twice to the client... Being alone is way better these days. People expect you to do anything.
Old 4th December 2013
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
the only advice i can offer is this:

The budget you have alone is fine BUT a studio is not a business at all (not unless you are at the very zenith of the cycle ).

No - a studio is a tool used by people running a business. I have 4 studios in the UK. All pretty well specced. BUT not one of them is rented out as a studio for others to use or bands to record in. I would look for a business partner with a business model that requires a studio.

As an aside - I have just watched someone build a brilliant facility for about 600,000 here in the UK. It has now dawned on them that they've just spent all that money for nothing as they do not have a business model... but heck, they have a brilliant studio that nobody is using!!

Of course - you may already have considered that and this is indeed your plan. In which case - carry on!!

What do you mean by "look for a partner with a business model"?
Are you suggesting that a studio is not a profitable business that one can make a living out of? All the studios I went to go look at when I wanted to record my music this year seemed to be rather busy and most didn't even get back to me after I had suggested that I was going to want to spend 10 000 or more in their studio. It seems they weren't so hung up about it and didn't really need the additional business. Would love for you to elaborate as it sounds like you are saying that having a studio which you rent out is not really profitable business and one should refrain from it. Perhaps I am a bit naive but also don't see how a studio is not a good business as there is always a need to record audio, whether it be musicians or for TV or advertising.

Quote:
I am curious as to what it is you do exactly and what is being done in your studios, if you care to elaborate? You are talking about "business partners" but also ruling out "renting to others" and "bands to record in" at the same time. I would like to hear the story.
My intention would be a recording studio to record bands demos but also for commercials and videos.

Quote:
Personally I'd choose 3) get a reputation to the point where I'm losing money by NOT having a studio. Then I'd build/buy a studio of exactly the size I need. And have it as a private production space.
How do you get a reputation without having a studio??? I am not looking at being an engineer. Just as having the studio for myself to record in and rent out as stated above. I/we would probably have a staff engineer or artists could bring their own.
Quote:
The problem is - there's already more studios than the industry need. There's certainly more small studios than the industry needs. And $50k is a small studio - you could spend more than that on room build easily.
I am a web designer and rather successful and guess what, there is a lot more web designers out there than the world needs too, most of whom charge half of what I do in India and Asia. There is probably too much of everything out there but doesn't mean you can't offer better value or a better service right? Why study or open up any business in that case...surely it exists already?


Quote:
To make a studio build a worthwhile investment, you really need the clients to book it out in place first. If you don't have that - forget it. Just building it doesn't mean anyone will come.

The concept of "I'll build a great studio, I'll get amazing clients and become a famous engineer" doesn't exist and never has. What do you want to do - engineer or be a salesman/manager?
How do you get clients in the first place?? your thinking sounds very negative to me and it makes no sense because, to get a studio off the ground is still like getting any business off the ground and surely you have to create the business first. You have to start somewhere. Why are you in the industry if you have such a pessimistic view? I don't want to be a super engineer... just to have a different income from something other than web design where I can also record my own music.
Old 4th December 2013
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Personally I'd choose 3) get a reputation to the point where I'm losing money by NOT having a studio. .....To make a studio build a worthwhile investment, you really need the clients to book it out in place first. If you don't have that - forget it. ...
Bill: Ted, while I agree that, in time, our studio will be most triumphant. The truth is, Wyld Stallyns will never be a super studio until we have Eddie Van Halen as a client.

Ted: Yes, Bill. But, I do not believe we will get Eddie Van Halen until we have a triumphant studio.

Bill: Ted, it's pointless to have a triumphant studio before we even have decent gear.

Ted: Well, how can we have decent gear when we don't really even know how to market?

Bill: That is why we NEED Eddie Van Halen!

Ted: And THAT is why we need a triumphant studio.

Bill, Ted: EXCELLENT!
Old 4th December 2013
  #9
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slaves666's Avatar
I has a similar choice 6 years ago, whether to partner with someone or not. He had around 200k to invest. Our plan was to build a 2500sqf studio with a huge live room, 2 control rooms, lounge and vocal booths. It didn't work out because of many factors one being splitting of walk up revenue,( ie, who does the work and how do you split the income). I ended up getting my own place and in the end, I am still in business and he is not.

My advice to you is go at it alone. Build your client base out of a small location and grow as you see fit. I'm sure there are plenty of places that you could lease, put some of that money into a room and buy some gear.

If you work had and deliver quality work, people will come.
Old 4th December 2013
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
Strawberry's Avatar
Which is the only ship guaranteed to sink with trace?

A partnership!
Old 4th December 2013
  #11
Gear Head
Is either of you an engineer? with chops? if not thats the first thing you need! (more cost?)

Anywhoo,
For 50K at best you can have a high quality hybrid system. You can forget about any console with your budget alone.
Can still be GREAT though.
Gear Example:
Mac, Protools Native? or HDX, Antelope Orion32, Burl B32 Summer, Barefoot MM27Gen2, Select Outboard, Mics, Instruments?, Tascam DA-3000, plugins, room treatment, desk.
There that should eat a whole in your wallet. :-)

Last edited by MUZIKSLUT; 4th December 2013 at 04:46 PM.. Reason: mistype
Old 4th December 2013
  #12
Gear Head
You're probably better off taking that 50K to the likes of a Vegas Casino!

Seriously, if you're NOT into making music yourself or have a passion for recording or mixing...I suggest you think twice even three times about this.

Why do you choose this field of business? It ain't because it's lucrative!!!
Old 4th December 2013
  #13
Lives for gear
 

The key to milking your budget is to make very critical gear purchases instead of buying into a bunch of redundancy as most folks on here fancy doing; ala 32 different boutique preamps is not the right way to start a studio.

However, maybe you should elaborate more on your master plan. Who are you? What gear do you already have? How long have you been making music? Do you want to open a studio because it sounds cool or is there a legitimate niche you are trying to fill?

I'm also not sure - is this just something you want to OWN, or are you trying to get out of web design and RUN the studio?

IMO location and reputation are more important then your gear list. Think of your favorite restaurant. Nobody cares what kind of grill they use, only that they make the best steaks in the WHOLE CITY.

With the influx of home studios and cheap, high quality recording gear it's really important to sit down and analyze your target market.
At this point in music land a Burl Mothership probably won't get your studio booked alone, so my biggest question is what is your marketing plan?
Old 4th December 2013
  #14
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by quakenul View Post
I am curious as to what it is you do exactly and what is being done in your studios, if you care to elaborate? You are talking about "business partners" but also ruling out "renting to others" and "bands to record in" at the same time. I would like to hear the story.
Run a company that contracts music acquisition for third party products. So be a producer who needs a studio, not a studio looking for a studio. Having studios cuts down an overhead for me - that of recording and mixing adverts, films, games and TV programmes (and some bands - but not many) every day. My company gets the projects first and then uses the studios for the work.

The studios on their own would not turn over enough without the other money from partner projects.
Old 4th December 2013
  #15
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
What do you mean by "look for a partner with a business model"?
Are you suggesting that a studio is not a profitable business that one can make a living out of? .
Thats exactly what I'm saying. In europe and the USA the studio business is all but dead.

There may be parts of the world that this isn't the case - but a studio as a business without a biz model to support it? I'd run a mile from that!! heh
Old 4th December 2013
  #16
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voodoo4u's Avatar
Some people think that owning a studio is special and unlike any other business. That somehow studios are exempt from some of the principles of running a good business. It's not. There's a great book about running a small business called "the E-Myth Revisited". I'd highly recommend it. You could lose your $50,000.00 in a heartbeat and end up with a very expensive life lesson.
I lost $100,000 in one of my audio adventures and I can tell you about some of my "education".
Rule 1: Audio recording and real estate are inextricably linked. If you're going to set up a commercial venture, own the building or partner with someone who does. I've seen more famous studios go under because of this than any other reason. It's usually because after you build leasehold improvements in someone else's building, they think they have you over a barrel and can make the rent unbearable.
Rule 2: Maybe tied with rule one for studios going under is overhead, overhead, overhead. Do everything you can to reduce your overhead. Buy used gear. Let someone else take the depreciation. Every body you invite into your operation is overhead. Be sure they bring more to the party than they cost you. If not, don't take them on, whether it's a engineer, a partner or an intern.
Rule 3: Supply and demand. My rough rule of thumb is it takes about 100,000 people to support a studio so if you're in town that has population of 250,000 people and there are 10 studios, seriously rethink it. You can't bring anything to the town that isn't already there. Unless you specialize, (forensics, all analog, amazing mic collection come to mind).
Rule 4: You're in the service industry, so make sure you give the highest level of service you possibly can. From giving your clients all the attention you can to making sure your studio looks professional and people are very comfortable working there.
There's many more I could go into, but this is not the place for me to write a novel. I will mention this though. The demand for a traditional, professional recording studio is all but completely gone. With so many people recording at home and building home studios, another business model becomes important. One studio in my town figured it out. What they did was to build many producer suites in the same building as their large studio and rent them out to people that have outgrown their home studio. That way, they have rent from all these small studios as well as a built in client base for their big room from all the producers that rent the small ones. They also own the building. In the time they've owned this building, the value has probably increased at least 25% and they have already doubled their investment. Can't say the same for their gear. That's an example of thinking outside the box.
By the way, the $100,00 I lost? I originally made it in real estate.
Old 5th December 2013
  #17
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
Are you suggesting that a studio is not a profitable business that one can make a living out of?
bingo. Do you have any idea how many people there are with $100,000 and the "idea" to build a studio? What ELSE do you have to offer your potential clients besides this pile of gear?

Quote:
Perhaps I am a bit naive but also don't see how a studio is not a good business as there is always a need to record audio, whether it be musicians or for TV or advertising.
if you think that $100,000 worth of gear is a "studio" and that therefore all the people "turned away" from that place in your story will come to flocking to you instead, yes, that is naive.

Quote:
I am not looking at being an engineer. Just as having the studio for myself to record in and rent out as stated above. I/we would probably have a staff engineer or artists could bring their own.
if you are not the engineer with your own reputation and you want to build a "room" where the room itself is capable of LURING other engineers and clients away from where they work now (because your room is so much nicer), IMO your investment is too low.
Quote:
There is probably too much of everything out there but doesn't mean you can't offer better value or a better service right?
You already said you are not an engineer and people would freelance there or bring their own, so you will have no control over the level of 'service'. And 'better value' means you are doing what? Charging less money? Some business model!
Quote:
I don't want to be a super engineer... just to have a different income from something other than web design where I can also record my own music.
The budget you have in mind, you could build a nice setup in your house and record yourself. The idea that it will be a source of "income" first and recording yourself is the side benefit, is exactly backwards IMO. It's like buying an ice cream factory when you are not adept in food manufacturing or distribution, but you just would like a steady supply of vanilla cones and milkshakes.
Quote:
You have to start somewhere. Why are you in the industry if you have such a pessimistic view?
It's realism, not pessimism:
Rihanna's 'Talk That Talk' Tops UK Charts With Lowest-Selling No. 1 Album | Billboard... 9,578 copies = the number one album! Your potential 'clients' are the poorest, flakiest most chronically unemployed people in the word. Musicians! The label budgets are shrinking or disappearing. If you want Income, open up a dry cleaners. People with JOBS need their suits cleaned! It's your money. Do what you want. But don't say nobody told you.

Is there some work out there? Sure, but you will have to wrestle that work away from some very very competent people. The people who are still open are the ones who survived the shakeout. If you and your engineering skills are not the draw, then the only draw is your gear list. I think you are going to need a bigger boat.
Old 5th December 2013
  #18
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voodoo4u's Avatar
Joeq,
Truer words were never spoken
Especially the part about "Your potential 'clients' are the poorest, flakiest most chronically unemployed people in the world".
Working with them, even some of the better, more popular ones can be like being on a roller coaster ride and not in a good way. You didn't mention narcissistic and disloyal, at least some of the ones I've worked with.
I must also admit that I've worked some humble and genuinely wonderful people that pay their bills. They're harder to find though.
Old 5th December 2013
  #19
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo4u View Post
Joeq,
Truer words were never spoken
Especially the part about "Your potential 'clients' are the poorest, flakiest most chronically unemployed people in the world".
Working with them, even some of the better, more popular ones can be like being on a roller coaster ride and not in a good way. You didn't mention narcissistic and disloyal, at least some of the ones I've worked with.
I must also admit that I've worked some humble and genuinely wonderful people that pay their bills. They're harder to find though.
+1

It's one thing to make a functional project studio if your intention is on composition. But if you're serious about making a go of it as a business person you're going to need sensible connections, a real business strategy, and personal motivations which will help you focus on investigating where and how to get work that interests you.

It's one thing to dream, it's another thing to be driven.
Old 5th December 2013
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
Are you suggesting that a studio is not a profitable business that one can make a living out of?
Afraid so. Successful studios have existing client bases - be that through being a venture of an established engineer/producer in which case they're not a commercial studio in most cases, they're the tool of the producer in question and it's the producer, not the studio, that's the draw.

OR they've been built by a team of experienced guys, staffed with experience, and they're catering to the label market. In which case triple your 100k budget and then some.

The last thing most areas need are more low end, budget studios catering to the self-funding musician.

Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
All the studios I went to go look at when I wanted to record my music this year seemed to be rather busy and most didn't even get back to me after I had suggested that I was going to want to spend 10 000 or more in their studio. It seems they weren't so hung up about it and didn't really need the additional business.
I don't know their reasons, or if they took you seriously or whatever. I would say that anyone with 50k or 100k invested in their studio that was offered 10k of bookings would snap your hand off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
Perhaps I am a bit naive but also don't see how a studio is not a good business as there is always a need to record audio, whether it be musicians or for TV or advertising.
There is. But it's being done already isn't it?! and a studio for VO recording or other TV work a) has to be built really well. Better than a music studio in many ways (better isolation, better aircon etc). It also has to be b) in a good area ie where the rest of the TV production happens, close to the offices of the main companies involved. In London, that's in the heart of the West End (Soho). Which is incredibly expensive. TV execs generally aren't as fussed about budget, so they're not going to travel an extra hour just to save $20/hr. The pressure and the budgets are such that they only change when they absolutely have to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
My intention would be a recording studio to record bands demos but also for commercials and videos.
The two aren't really compatible, unless you're looking at real bottom feeder ads - and then you're competing with guys recording at home effectively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
How do you get a reputation without having a studio??? I am not looking at being an engineer. Just as having the studio for myself to record in and rent out as stated above. I/we would probably have a staff engineer or artists could bring their own.
Well, you get a reputation by working in other people's rooms! But if you're not intending to be an "engineer", then you need to hire experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
I am a web designer and rather successful and guess what, there is a lot more web designers out there than the world needs too, most of whom charge half of what I do in India and Asia. There is probably too much of everything out there but doesn't mean you can't offer better value or a better service right? Why study or open up any business in that case...surely it exists already?
In the current situation, you'd be the same as those guys in India/Asia - attempting to tempt people on price rather than familiarity and experience. What makes you think you can offer better value or service than what's already out there?

Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
How do you get clients in the first place?? your thinking sounds very negative to me
Not negative, just realistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
and it makes no sense because, to get a studio off the ground is still like getting any business off the ground and surely you have to create the business first.
Well, it makes no sense TO YOU because you've not been working in the industry! I've been doing it for something like 12 years now, from running through to engineering and producing.

Yes - your principles are sound for business in general. However - you have to have a realistic chance of making your money back to start a business in a field, there has to be a need that isn't being fulfilled OR you have to offer something better than is already out there, and finally, the "demo studio" market is the bottom feeders of the music recording world. It's fighting for a few hundred dollars per session, the guys who pay the least generally want the most, cancel at a moment's notice for their mate who'll do it for free, and so on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
You have to start somewhere. Why are you in the industry if you have such a pessimistic view? I don't want to be a super engineer... just to have a different income from something other than web design where I can also record my own music.
Well - I'm not IN the business of studio management. I'm a working engineer/producer. I work in other people's studios. Actually, at the moment I'm in house for a major label....the closest I came to owning my own studio was when I rented a production room (small control room with booth) with a friend. I did this because I was literally losing money and quality by not having one - I needed a better place to mix than at home, I was having to hire studios for guitar overdubs and small sessions, and I only recorded drums for a day or two per project. So I rented a production room, I found clients to work with (around my "day job" as inhouse engineer at another studio company, through which I was building a CV and contacts), and I only rented a studio for tracking drums. The days I rented the studio to clients for projects I was working on generally paid the rent for the month - so I had the rest of the time to use it as a mixing/production space, effectively paid for.

I've never wanted or needed to run a commercial studio. Why would I? there's too many good spaces to work out of. Let someone else pay the maintenance and rates! I don't need to record drums every day....

It seems to me you just want a good small space for working on your own projects. Running a studio is a full time job - even just organising maintenance and so on (I don't book our studio), I find myself spending probably a full day's worth of hours phoning people and sending emails. You're not going to have a day job in web design, run a studio on your own, AND time to actually record yourself!

As I said before - I'm just trying to suggest you might want to think a little deeper before investing that much money. You keep referring to yourself as naive, then questioning those who are telling it to you straight.
Old 5th December 2013
  #21
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twentyhertz's Avatar
 

Can't say much more than the excellent replies that you've already received except that, what you're describing is a vanity studio (and I don't mean that in a bad way- just another way of saying a personal studio that you can afford to enjoy without it paying for itself) because the 2 studios I've worked in here in Seattle (a large metropolitan area with a kick ass music scene) each have way, way more than $100K in gear forget the cost of the properly built rooms, maintenance, rent, insurance, promotion, etc etc and they go for $500-700/day with engineer and they're not fully booked by a long shot. The owners both do it for love and neither are getting rich, not even close. So yeah I'd do a ton more research into the business side and the market you're in or just build the thing because you can and want to have your own spot, but forget about making it pay for itself.

My .02
Old 5th December 2013
  #22
Lives for gear
 

you should come up with multiple services that will suppliment and bring a steady cashflow in.
I taught lessions, rent rehersal space and put on shows way before I open my recording services up to people.
Old 5th December 2013
  #23
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Ok so I am doubt now...but maybe it is for the best :(
Old 5th December 2013
  #24
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herecomesyourman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
Ok so I am doubt now...but maybe it is for the best :(
When in doubt. Always do more homework. That's the main thing. Never do anything in this business lightly.
Old 5th December 2013
  #25
Quote:
Originally Posted by attaboy_jhb View Post
Ok so I am doubt now...but maybe it is for the best :(
Given some of your other threads..I'd really suggest learning a lot more of the basics before sinking 50k of their hard-earned money into a venture.

Spend a few years a) learning the basics of recording at home and b) renting commercial rooms to see how the pros do it (at all levels ideally).

Then you'll have a much better education, knowledge and understanding of what's going on.
Old 5th December 2013
  #26
basically if you are a small studio owner and can't work the sessions, and can't attract and build a clientele, you have flushed your money and time and effort down the toilet. As it's already been said, the small studio business is not good, for that matter with rare exception, the studio business period is not good. So if you want to make money and not have to be there because you have another job, open a laundromat.
Old 5th December 2013
  #27
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab View Post
basically if you are a small studio owner and can't work the sessions, and can't attract and build a clientele, you have flushed your money and time and effort down the toilet. As it's already been said, the small studio business is not good, for that matter with rare exception, the studio business period is not good. So if you want to make money and not have to be there because you have another job, open a laundromat.
Yes, the daily thrill of unlocking those boxes full of cash money the machines earned for you while you were out doing something else! I knew a guy whose family owned a laundromat, and apparently the reality was more about many many hours scraping heinous gunk out of the machines and repairs repairs repairs. Even a laundromat is not a money tree.

I think you make a very good point. If as an engineer, you open up a place, you at least are providing a JOB for yourself. If you have to pay a guy to engineer...
Old 5th December 2013
  #28
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bambamboom's Avatar
OP:

Brilliant posts by Psycho Monkey... re-read those a few times.....

If you are DETERMINED to spend money on studios anyway, I would suggest:

1) Have a very small decent quality home rig for mixing and tracking things in a small space (vox, guitars, keys, bass, etc, etc.)

2) Hire out a great studio when you need a professional level tracking facility for a day or two only when you need it. There are tons of options in the 350 to 500 per day range that will kill anything you could do for 50K. Your 50K lets you rent that sort of facility 100+ times, which is likely way way way more than your own music requirements will ever need. Even if you want to book something ultra high end, that's still totally do-able as long as it is just a few days here and there. Added bang for the buck is the education you'll get.

3) If you are looking for another revenue stream, use the music you are creating as a vehicle for that. You have about as much of a chance for success as you do opening a studio (low odds), but it'll be a whole lot more fun and creative. If you tour and can draw a reasonable crowd you can do ok selling band merch which has a high profit margin. With your design background you could probably make some decent looking merch.

Good luck.
Old 5th December 2013
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
Yes, the daily thrill of unlocking those boxes full of cash money the machines earned for you while you were out doing something else! I knew a guy whose family owned a laundromat, and apparently the reality was more about many many hours scraping heinous gunk out of the machines and repairs repairs repairs. Even a laundromat is not a money tree.

I think you make a very good point. If as an engineer, you open up a place, you at least are providing a JOB for yourself. If you have to pay a guy to engineer...
Yep unless your building a large facility the overhead of the rent, gear, insurance, and engineer is more than a little tough. And what do you do hire an engineer who works cheap? How's that going to work, if you have a small place it's all about building a local loyal clientele, for that you need a real good engineer preferably with a client base in which case you have to pay him well.
There used to be a nice studio in queens that had a Frank Comentale designed room, with a Studer 827 and an API console , there were two partners, neither could engineer, so they hired a good engineer, they couldn't really make a go of it, too big of an overhead. And they had more than 50k in the place
Old 5th December 2013
  #30
Joined: this month and year

Posts: 16

Throwing around preposterous ideas about this $50,000 here and that $50,000 there:

Priceless
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