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"Skills > gear", going deeper into the topic
Old 24th October 2013
  #91
There is a difference between condescension and merely someone telling you something you don't want to hear.

I hear no ego in P_M's quote above, merely blunt honesty backed up by personal experience. I do however hear bruised egos in yours and shreddinators responses.

Smoothvibe I enjoy your posts, but it's apparent to me that P_M is concerned about the dissemination of erroneous answers to legitimate inquires. To this end, he has not censored you, banned you, chastised you or even been nasty. He has merely engaged you in conversation.

Quote:
After reading hundreds of Monkey's post as he suggested I do, although I had already read many as I read hundreds of posts for every one I post, I would say his opinions seem very ego driven. The advice he gives doesn't always provide definitive answers and quite often leaves me feeling like you do when you hang with a negative mate, the lesser for it. Just the three long posts in a row show signs of Cantbewrongitis. Who defends themselves so strongly while circumnavigating the real issue? It's great that people feel strongly, love something enough to dedicate so much time to a good cause but it can sour other people's experiences if they can't conduct themselves with just a little humility.

A moderator has to be a bit diplomatic rather than exploiting other peoples weaknesses to make themselves look bigger, smarter, better. And as a person you only have to act in this manner a couple of times before your tainted by it. If a mod can't do that maybe they should just be a regular joe for the sake of a more balanced approach. As for "good advice" - well everyone is throwing that around for free.

And as far as the topic - Skills, Room and Gear IMO are all as important as each other and as soon as a Mod states he can do an equally good job both in the box and out of the box on any gear or the OP's gear, well that's just opening another Pandora's box. Is this site called Gearslutz or Engineerslutz?
This strikes me as petulant and absurd.
Old 24th October 2013
  #92
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by shreddinator View Post
After reading hundreds of Monkey's post as he suggested I do, although I had already read many as I read hundreds of posts for every one I post, I would say his opinions seem very ego driven. The advice he gives doesn't always provide definitive answers and quite often leaves me feeling like you do when you hang with a negative mate, the lesser for it. Just the three long posts in a row show signs of Cantbewrongitis. Who defends themselves so strongly while circumnavigating the real issue? It's great that people feel strongly, love something enough to dedicate so much time to a good cause but it can sour other people's experiences if they can't conduct themselves with just a little humility.

A moderator has to be a bit diplomatic rather than exploiting other peoples weaknesses to make themselves look bigger, smarter, better. And as a person you only have to act in this manner a couple of times before your tainted by it. If a mod can't do that maybe they should just be a regular joe for the sake of a more balanced approach. As for "good advice" - well everyone is throwing that around for free.

And as far as the topic - Skills, Room and Gear IMO are all as important as each other and as soon as a Mod states he can do an equally good job both in the box and out of the box on any gear or the OP's gear, well that's just opening another Pandora's box. Is this site called Gearslutz or Engineerslutz?
Bingo! What you are describing is the result of a moderator taking a thread from "on topic" to "on author". When everybody would follow that principle Gearslutz would turn into Engineerslutz. You have just played an excellent argument, anchored in fairness, evidence and truth, I salute you!

Let's hope some other moderator tells the following to psycho_monkey: "They are right, no matter the skill level, this ain't no Engineerslutz"
Old 24th October 2013
  #93
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claend's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneHall View Post
is such an approachable Mod-Monkey man.
"UAAAIAAAAIAAAA....

UUAAAAIIAAAAIIAAAA...

is such an approachable Mod-Monkey maaaaaaaan."




Couldn't resist

Yes I'm ********.

EDIT: Damn Can't even insult myself!
Old 24th October 2013
  #94
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothVibe View Post
Bingo! What you are describing is the result of a moderator taking a thread from "on topic" to "on author". When everybody would follow that principle Gearslutz would turn into Engineerslutz. You have just played an excellent argument, anchored in fairness, evidence and truth, I salute you!

Let's hope some other moderator tells the following to psycho_monkey: "They are right, no matter the skill level, this ain't no Engineerslutz"
I think you are losing the plot mate.

Btw: Gear is nothing without talent.
Old 24th October 2013
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nspaas View Post
Btw: Gear is nothing without talent.
to be fair, im not going to go and do the math but I think your proposition is accounted for within sv's formulae


Sent from my GT-I9100P
Old 24th October 2013
  #96
Lives for gear
100000% guaranteed Troll.

Long-form trolling with a sock puppet combo, not even all that rare these days, though this one is good at what he does.
Old 24th October 2013
  #97
Fair enough, I should have said "Gear is nothing without talent and experience."

Which is discounted by this:

Quote:
Let's hope some other moderator tells the following to psycho_monkey: "They are right, no matter the skill level, this ain't no Engineerslutz"
I'm sorry but they are not right. It used to be that knowledge were gained from those with more experience, plus the application of practical skills. From acquired knowledge, experience and if you are lucky, wisdom, opinion with merit sometimes follows. I feel these days, all you need is a bit of reading on the internet, some bedroom studio time, and a self proclaimed experience level to sit behind your keyboard and yap at your betters.

Just sayin'
Old 24th October 2013
  #98
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aktuator View Post
Long-form trolling with a sock puppet combo
lol...is that olympic?
Old 24th October 2013
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nspaas View Post
I feel these days, all you need is a bit of reading on the internet, some bedroom studio time, and a self proclaimed experience level to sit behind your keyboard and yap at your betters.
Who are the betters?

Psycho said himself, he's not a teacher, he's just another guy sharing his opinions. This isn't a classroom. It's a free forum for everybody. On most of these philosophical topics that have no objective answer, nobody is right and everybody is right.

IMO.
Old 25th October 2013
  #100
Gear Guru
 
lucey's Avatar
Dude I think your formula is actually pretty close. I'd maybe express it in similar terms:

a. Skill is most important
b. Room/Monitoring and AD DA is next
c. Gear is the last thing, that is the most fun at first.

Gear is super useful with a and b. Not very important without them.


I include AD DA into the b group because the subtle differences in converters really add up and you can't "skill" you way around the signature of a converter. When skilled people use great conversion an ITB mix can sound deep and clear or almost like tape. Many options. I like Metric Halo for example.

When skilled people use a 002, it still sounds like a 002 through a blender, based on the skill level. There's no getting around the harmonic signature of AD DA.
Old 25th October 2013
  #101
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey View Post
Dude I think your formula is actually pretty close. I'd maybe express it in similar terms:

a. Skill is most important
b. Room/Monitoring and AD DA is next
c. Gear is the last thing, that is the most fun at first.

Gear is super useful with a and b. Not very important without them.


I include AD DA into the b group because the subtle differences in converters really add up and you can't "skill" you way around the signature of a converter. When skilled people use great conversion an ITB mix can sound deep and clear or almost like tape. Many options. I like Metric Halo for example.

When skilled people use a 002, it still sounds like a 002 through a blender, based on the skill level. There's no getting around the harmonic signature of AD DA.
I kind of agree, at least when it comes to the DA part. When it comes to the AD part I currently perceive it to be slightly less in significance, but doing a rough impact estimation I find it both convenient and quite reasonable to place them both in the same category: "rooms/monitors(incl.amps)/DA/AD". There are several reasons to this, but one thing is that they belong to multiple processes within the overall production pipeline. Another thing is that they influence performance related decision making quite much - they can be used to help filter out low performance parts of the setup, another thing is that all signal is passing through these components, they almost become like mix EQs. And with a lot of clean converter headroom you can push the mixes harder without as much mix fatigue, keeping mixes more vital and 3D like.
Old 25th October 2013
  #102
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelpatterson View Post
All these formulas leave me scratching my head, and it's not even itchy... wasn't there a quote on the back of some Bob Dylan album where he's asking his engineer "how do I get the wall in the plane"?

That what it seems like here, pure synesthesia... a bizarre, disjointed mathematical approach to something that is entirely emotional.
What he said...

Dancing about architecture?
Old 25th October 2013
  #103
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paul brown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothVibe View Post
I kind of agree, at least when it comes to the DA part. When it comes to the AD part I currently perceive it to be slightly less in significance
i think the opposite. one chance to capture accurately the analogue performance digitally. converting back to analogue...try as many DACs as you want.
Old 25th October 2013
  #104
Gear Maniac
 
theaterguy's Avatar
 

The result is anyway digital, well mostly, and DAC can be whatever consumer have in their playback systems.
Old 25th October 2013
  #105
Gear Maniac
 

I don't see how someone could say AD or DA is more important. AD: you want the most accurate replication of sound. DA: you want the most accurate duplication of sound.

Sent from my ADR6400L
Old 25th October 2013
  #106
Gear Maniac
 

Or the other way around, duplication then replication :what:

Sent from my ADR6400L
Old 26th October 2013
  #107
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Funny Cat's Avatar
I think all this obsession over AD= Absolutely Dumb


and all this obsession over DA=Definitely Asinine


Now go create something original and compelling and then tell me conversion matters.
Old 26th October 2013
  #108
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
I think all this obsession over AD= Absolutely Dumb


and all this obsession over DA=Definitely Asinine


Now go create something original and compelling and then tell me conversion matters.
That's original. Crowd talking about gear on gearslutz and one guy says "wait! It's not about the gear. It's about the music!"

Sent from my ADR6400L
Old 26th October 2013
  #109
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Funny Cat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jozzs52 View Post
That's original. Crowd talking about gear on gearslutz and one guy says "wait! It's not about the gear. It's about the music!"

Sent from my ADR6400L
Being a good AE is all about "perspective". Take from that what you will...this being Gearslutz and all.


Kind Regards,


-FC
Old 26th October 2013
  #110
Gear Maniac
 

Sure will! :D

I just see a post like this in any lengthy thread :P

Sent from my ADR6400L
Old 26th October 2013
  #111
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GeneHall's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
Being a good AE is all about "perspective". Take from that what you will...this being Gearslutz and all.


Kind Regards,


-FC
That's exactly right man. Undoubtedly, someone will attempt to challenge the simple, obvious nature of your profound understanding. And that challenge, will do less to make a case or point and more just give others a clear indication of where that challenging perspective is in experience, and understanding of the bigger picture.
Old 26th October 2013
  #112
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
Being a good AE is all about "perspective". Take from that what you will...this being Gearslutz and all.


Kind Regards,


-FC
Loads of records made in the 90's on 888's that still sound amazing say you have a point.
Old 26th October 2013
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Loads of records made in the 90's on 888's that still sound amazing say you have a point.
but they generally were not ITB
Old 26th October 2013
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funny Cat View Post
Now go create something original and compelling and then tell me conversion matters.
But gear forums are not about songwriting or production.

No one disputes the importance of skills, but isn't sort of like inciting a riot in this context? at least it seems that way.

Good converters/gear are the cherry on top, and don't tell me any reputable producer would say I don't want to record at ocean way.... Skill is my copilot!!!!! give me that ramsa console and that 16 bit black-face ADATs.
Old 26th October 2013
  #115
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by therock View Post
but they generally were not ITB
That's right. So forget about affording that Mothership and get a lovely mixing console.
Topic:
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