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Daking small format console!
Old 11th November 2003
  #1
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DrDeltaM's Avatar
 

Daking small format console!

Hadn't heard about these yet, but they seem real cool :-)

Have a drool:

www.daking.com
Old 11th November 2003
  #2
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atticus's Avatar
Their four channel mic pre looks very cool as well. I hadn't seen that yet.
Old 11th November 2003
  #3
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Any word on price and availability? I was starting to look at the Inward Connections MP 820 but now the Daking stuff has my attention!

guru007
Old 11th November 2003
  #4
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The MP820 is a very cool box, but I don't believe that it is a mixer. Rather it is a sidecar with 8 channels of whatever you want in it.

The Daking stuff looks really cool, too. I wonder how large their small board is...

--Ben
Old 11th November 2003
  #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by fifthcircle
The Daking stuff looks really cool, too. I wonder how large their small board is...
If you have time, you can try to measure it out: the faders are 60mm
Old 11th November 2003
  #6
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Originally posted by fifthcircle

The Daking stuff looks really cool, too. I wonder how large their small board is...




This image shows the small mixer next to (below, actually) the new 4ch mic preamp. So, the mixer appears to be around 25" wide (too big for rack mount) and about 10 RU tall. But rack units don't mean much for something that won't fit, so lets say its about 20 to 22" tall, again to big for mounting, even sideways.

http://www.daking.com/Newmixer.html


But am I the only guy who doesn't understand the third panel on the small mixer? The bottom third contains the typical fader and pan pot for input channels. But then there appears to be 8 (8!!!) Aux sends per input? Why would anyone working with only 8 inputs also require 8 Aux sends per input???
Old 11th November 2003
  #7
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The 8 channel panel has 6 aux sends actually. The 2 lowest faders are shelving bass and treble EQ.

I dunno if the mixer is limited to one 4 channel input pack, one master strip and one 8 channel return pack, or if you could have more input packs or more return channel packs. 6 aux sends would sure make sense then i guess.
Old 11th November 2003
  #8
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I first saw this at AES and by the complicated looks of it, I knew getting an explanation was gonna be long and too detailed to interrupt Geoff, who was already engrossed in conversation at the time....

To me it looks like the three sections can work independently for use with a DAW, or as a package for a very cool not-so-mini-console.

I can only wonder at what the rear I/O looks like...

guru007
Old 11th November 2003
  #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by guru007

I can only wonder at what the rear I/O looks like...
There's mention on the website of db25 ports.

I sure am interested, depending on what this console would cost, and if it's further expandable or not.
Old 11th November 2003
  #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrDeltaM
There's mention on the website of db25 ports.

I sure am interested, depending on what this console would cost, and if it's further expandable or not.
With all of the Aux options, I can't see db25 interfaces doing the whole job...but then again, it sure would shave off a lot of the costs.

guru007
Old 12th November 2003
  #11
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These are definitely the kind of products that make you lust over them and, at the same time, wonder why they made certain decisions?

Using linear faders in place of pots or rotary switches on all of the EQ and compressor controls? Why?

MY other question concerns the packaging. The small mixer is not rack mountable, but its barely larger than a rack mount mixer. If the components were split up into 4 sections instead of three, it could have been rack mount. On the other hand, if you are not going rack mount, why not offer the customer some room to work in - once you've blown past 19", what reason is there to keep things tiny?

But the only questions folks are gonna ask about the new preamp are "How much" and "When will it arrive"; I already have an empty space waiting for one of those 4ch mic preamps........ That should be a big seller.
Old 12th November 2003
  #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by hollywood_steve
These are definitely the kind of products that make you lust over them and, at the same time, wonder why they made certain decisions?

Using linear faders in place of pots or rotary switches on all of the EQ and compressor controls? Why?
I believe the Daking pre/eq was inspired after the Trident A range sound, which would also explain the faders. I saw an A range a little while ago and it took a few seconds to register what i was staring at.

Everything old is new again, I suppose...

guru007
Old 12th November 2003
  #13
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Its all well and good .... and yes i feela sudden and somewhat urgent case of GAS on the ride but HOW MUCH and WHEN!!!!!!!!!

Wiggy
Old 12th November 2003
  #14
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I saw this unit at AES and it looks awesome....

I think you can rack the different modules on their side, it only looks to be 25" cause of the wood enclosure and mic pres.

I don't remember exactly what Geoff said the price was, but I think as pictured (w/ pres) it was in the 10-12k range. But don't quote me on that. It makes it a bit pricier per channel than options such as the API and Aurora, but is more of a full feature console. In person, with the exception of the compressor controls, it didn't seem as cramped as it looks online. And gives way more room than say the new API master section.

I just can't decide which to get (between Daking, API 8200/7800, and Aurora GTM-822). They all look awesome!
Old 12th November 2003
  #15
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actually if you got four of the API 7600s to match the four input chanels here they probably come out priced pretty similarly. my bad.
Old 12th November 2003
  #16
Quote:
Originally posted by hollywood_steve
These are definitely the kind of products that make you lust over them and, at the same time, wonder why they made certain decisions?

Using linear faders in place of pots or rotary switches on all of the EQ and compressor controls? Why?

MY other question concerns the packaging. The small mixer is not rack mountable, but its barely larger than a rack mount mixer. If the components were split up into 4 sections instead of three, it could have been rack mount. On the other hand, if you are not going rack mount, why not offer the customer some room to work in - once you've blown past 19", what reason is there to keep things tiny?

But the only questions folks are gonna ask about the new preamp are "How much" and "When will it arrive"; I already have an empty space waiting for one of those 4ch mic preamps........ That should be a big seller.
Steve,

The console is not meant to be rackmountable. It is a traditional console setup meant to be sitting in front of you horizontal to the floor, perhaps sitting mounted in custom furniture. I know that Geoff said he means to offer a stable mounting system for this as well, but again will not be in a rack mount format. There are no mic preamps standard in the console (the 4 channel preamp is an option and a seperate unit). The console is made for mixing purposes aimed at the DAW user who no longer wishes to mix in the box. It looks like a split design, but it's not, necessarily. Preamps are an option, and the fader packs are line input.

What you may have not noticed is that this is modular. The format that he shows is not much bigger than a rack mixer, but when you expand it to 32 channels, then you're talking about something completely different. The EQ and compressors are on sliders, because this is the only way to get Geoff's internal circuitry at this price point. The insides are the same as his standalone units, but sliders cost a lot less compared to labor intensive and expensive potentiometers. They are rated for something like one million slides, so they should last for a while!! If you want knobs, then you can still get it on his standalone units, and they will cost significantly more per channel.

The 4 channel preamp is expected to retail somewhere in the $3K range. A 16 channel fader unit (without preamps) with PSU and center section is expected to retail in the under $15K range, not sure of exact figures. Geoff and I looked at what else was available on the market and did our best to develop something unique and cost effective in comparison. There is a serious gap in the $8K-$20K full featured analog console market. Digital control surfaces or stand alone boards don't count, that's apples and oranges. I'll say it again, I'd rather have a Soundcraft Ghost and some ADAT 20 bits than mix in the box or on a digital board. Some of the systems out there (won't name names) just don't make sense to me and are confusing to the end user, and only take form in rack mount architecture (which neither Geoff nor I prefer, that's why we decided to stick with something traditional, and with faders). However my personal preferences aside, considering that there will be EQ and compressor on every channel on the pricier modules, it will be quite convenient. The monitor mixer (the pic on the right on the Daking site) can also be used and configured for as many channels as you like in blocks of 8. This will be a lower cost option for those who don't require EQ and compressors. Or the modules can be mixed and matched.
Old 12th November 2003
  #17
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Thanks for the information Nathan!

I like the sliders...even if it wasn't for price reasons!
Old 13th November 2003
  #18
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Cool info Nathan!
Old 13th November 2003
  #19
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hey nathan, izzat 16ch's of the 4 input modules with eq/comp (as in 4 modules) for under $15,000? that'd be phenomenal!!! btw, what's this "we" stuff?


ml
Old 13th November 2003
  #20
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So this would be less then $15k ?

The modular design rules, you could start building a Daking console with little money already with 4 channels & a master unit... And expand over time
Attached Thumbnails
Daking small format console!-daking16ch.jpg  
Old 13th November 2003
  #21
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how bloody cool is THAT!?


ml
Old 13th November 2003
  #22
Quote:
Originally posted by DrDeltaM
So this would be less then $15k ?

That was the original plan, whether or not that pans out is to be seen. Stay tuned....
Old 13th November 2003
  #23
Quote:
Originally posted by muddy
btw, what's this "we" stuff?
Geoff and I collaborated on the development and configuration of the console and the microphone preamp. If I was going to have Geoff Daking design a custom console for me, this is what I would have come up with. I gave him a set of criteria and a price tag, and he took up the challenge to meet it. But since it will be mass production instead of a one off, everybody benefits because they can have one, and it will be lower in cost because of that. As far as electronic circuitry goes, there is nothing new here, it's the same preamps, EQ, and compressors, but being an end user myself and receiving years of feedback from end users, I thought it would be a good idea for Geoff to come up with a lower cost modular desk, as well as a 4 channel standalone mic preamp that would be an option to intigrate with the console rather than a high cost requirement. We all have preamps in our racks, most people just need a mixing console and again, 4 preamps on every 4 fader pack module would add a lot to the cost. His preamps are some of the most underrated one's on the market because they are flat out great, comparible (but different) to any Neve 1290. Most people need preamps before they buy EQ, so this is an economical way to get into 4 channels of his preamps, instead of having to get EQ's with it if not necessary. I wasn't sure if a lower cost version of his console was feasible, but when we talked he figured out a way to do it, and not cut corners on quality. The sliders are the biggest cost reduction factor, they are detented, so there shouldn't be any problems in figuring out how to use them or repeatability. If it was on expensive potentiometers, it would be close to double the cost.
Old 13th November 2003
  #24
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bloody brilliant, nathan! you're attacking this in the same way i (as a guitar player) inform a few companies i work with, in that the product has to be something that i would need and use everyday. and i'm finding if i use that as my guideline, the ideas tend to be spot on. looks like you guys have done the same, here. and it's such a smart configuration! it means that, to begin with, i could start by simply getting the 4 ch's & the monitor section, along with whatever pre's i choose (though, if geoff's preX4 is gonna be $3000, that's pretty damn good at $750 a pop for THOSE pre's!), and i'm up & running (i've got a speck m-72 for REAMS of returns!)! and gradually build a board from there. even the 8ch monitor module is brilliant, as it's a relatively cheap way to add on 8 inputs & 6 aux's, all in one go. and i don't know if anyone noticed, but there IS a very basic shelving eq (bass & treble), and i HIGHLY doubt they'd be there if they weren't usable. this whole idea gives anyone the potential to build a phenomenal sounding board! but the REAL kicker is that you've managed to add the compressors on each channel! WHERE on the planet are you gonna find channel strips THIS bloody good for THIS kinda $?! can you tell how jazzed i am?


ml
Old 13th November 2003
  #25
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so the question still begs....when?
Old 13th November 2003
  #26
Like the idea.
The console looks great.
I know Daking makes excellent products.
Just wish I had the dosh.
Old 14th November 2003
  #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by wolfhound
I saw this unit at AES and it looks awesome....

<SNIP>
I don't remember exactly what Geoff said the price was, but I think as pictured (w/ pres) it was in the 10-12k range. But don't quote me on that. It makes it a bit pricier per channel than options such as the API and Aurora, but is more of a full feature console.
<SNIP>
I don't 10-12K was ever discussed as the price, its been discussed as more like 15-18K.....I don't think this is possible at 10-12. (BTW, the sliders are used for cost savings; if it was pots, it would be WAY expensive)

The MicPre4 should retail for 3K.

It looks like the right idea, yes?
Old 14th November 2003
  #28
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i talked about so much with Geoff I probably got the numbers messed up in my head--maybe he said 12 w/o mic pres? anyway, thanks for the info ...but still nobody will say whenheh
Old 15th November 2003
  #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by wolfhound
i talked about so much with Geoff I probably got the numbers messed up in my head--maybe he said 12 w/o mic pres? anyway, thanks for the info ...but still nobody will say whenheh
Nobody says "when" cause Geoff is working on building the production prototype right now. Then he can move into real ongoing production and then we know for sure. We all want this out soon, but if a great idea comes along that makes it better, its sometimes advisable to delay production until you can work that in. the point in takling it to AES was to get exactly this type of conversation going, so please keep it up! This is all helpful.

Some history: When I took the concept & front panel drawings that Jeff at API made for me on the 7600 to NAMM in 199? (showed first to the world at a party at Dave Martins house), then in turn to Paul and ATI, it took 2 years + to get it into production! On the inside, it feels nearly impossible to go from idea to reliable, buildable, affordable gear. You keep banging away at it and it does come, but usually not in the time frame you want.

I expect we'll see the Daking MicPre4 pretty quick-maybe March?

Brad
Old 16th November 2003
  #30
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Thanks Brad!
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