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Should I go to school?
Old 13th February 2013
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Should I go to school?

It's getting close to that time. I'm in grade 12 and am starting to constantly think about my future, what I want to do.

There are two things I want to do:

Audio engineering
Programming

I was given an opportunity in September the year I'm out of school, and that's to take the lead recording, engineering, then mixing and master mixing a church CD. I am currently a worship leader at this church and have been told on multiple occasions that I'm very talented vocally, but that's not my passion (Not now, anyway).

It would be a budget project of course, but we would use a Neumann mic, Pro Tools 10, a nice pair of Yamaha monitors, etc etc.

I really want to do it, but I'm scared to not go to school. Will this be enough? After this, I want to use the mixes as a sign of the quality of my work to get an internship in Toronto working at a studio. I then want to go off and become Pro Tools certified by Avid Designs. All the while I will be doing programming on the side with a talented artist.

I just need to know, is this possible? Is it realistic? I really don't know what to do, but I really have a passion for music. I have really spent every penny I have on gear, I invest hours into research, understanding and application. Can this get me somewhere? Or is life a "Go to school or fail" jig?
Old 13th February 2013
  #2
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Well invest a few more hours using the search function here to find many answers to this same question. These days, continuing on with any higher education (college/trade school) must be rewarded with a higher paying job to offset the substantial debt you will incur for the cost of that education. If not you will start your adult life off in a hole you may never be able to climb out of. Student loan debt is NOT wiped out by bankruptcy. Basically at this point in history you are buying into a career with higher education. If few if any new jobs exist in a particular field or the rate of pay for those jobs is not above other non skilled employment then the costs and time (you could have been earning a paycheck during that time at school) associated with pursuing higher education in that particular field is a needless waste. The only jobs available in the recording industry are ones you create yourself and typical pay is NOT more than other unskilled labor jobs. That said there is plenty of free / very low cost info out there to help you learn recording as is low cost privite lessons with a local engineer (the same way most learn how to play a musical instrument).
Old 13th February 2013
  #3
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Vintageidiot's Avatar
Who can foresee the future? I would go to school as a priority, and do music with what time I had to spare.........
Old 13th February 2013
  #4
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Silent Sound's Avatar
I wouldn't go to school for music, that's for sure. I know of many, many people who pursued various music degrees from all kinds of institutions, and the only one's who have landed jobs in the music business are a few (and I mean FEW) people who went on to play for some orchestras (and depending on the city, you may or may not need a second job), and a couple of junior high and high school music teachers. But in the direction our schools are headed in this country, I wouldn't bet too much money that we'll still have art and music classes in public schools in ten to twenty more years. But who knows. The majority of people I know with music based education get jobs that have nothing to do with music, and far too many of them have jobs that don't even require a degree, so they could have just gotten that same job right out of high school and saved a bunch of time and money.

Now I do know some people who have been moderately successful in the music business and none of them have any music degrees (though one teaches at a few courses at a University!). They all made their inroads by making connections on their own and taking advantage of opportunities as they arose.

So I say if you want to do music for a living, find something else to do to pay the bills so you can stay around long enough to make the connections you need to progress in the industry. Get to know as many people as possible, and get your name out there! Do stuff for free if you have to. Learn from anyone you can. Find people who have the knowledge you wish to acquire and make yourself useful to them so they want you around. Maybe you'll get lucky. But make no mistake, I've seen far too many seriously talented people go no where and absolute hacks make it big to believe the luck doesn't play a major role.
Old 13th February 2013
  #5
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I don't think making the album for your church will garner you great experience, as you are the one in need of it but will be the "lead" and responsible for what seems like all production aspects.

I'd get a formal education in programming (if you mean computer programming, not music programming) while interning at local studios. You'll gain more knowledge by starting at the bottom and being a keen observer than you will by trying to reinvent the wheel.
Old 13th February 2013
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j2dafo View Post
I don't think making the album for your church will garner you great experience, as you are the one in need of it but will be the "lead" and responsible for what seems like all production aspects.

I'd get a formal education in programming (if you mean computer programming, not music programming) while interning at local studios. You'll gain more knowledge by starting at the bottom and being a keen observer that you will by trying to reinvent the wheel.
I am taking the lead, but my Dad (Who has sang and mixed 2 cds) said he would happily oversee me, and make sure I'm on the right track, give help when needed, etc. I also have good, intelligent people working around me, so I'm definitely not worried about that.

It's just I have no remote or desire or want to go to school. I hear going for music is ultimately useless, and going for programming doesn't seem to have the greatest merits either. Many big fish only care about results more than the means to get them.

I definitely don't expect music to pay my bills, I really want to program and have a blast with that too (While making actually money).

All in all, I have no idea what I'm doing, and this is allot more stressful than I imagined it to be
Old 13th February 2013
  #7
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Googlesgod View Post
It's getting close to that time. I'm in grade 12 and am starting to constantly think about my future, what I want to do.

There are two things I want to do:

Audio engineering
Programming

I was given an opportunity in September the year I'm out of school, and that's to take the lead recording, engineering, then mixing and master mixing a church CD. I am currently a worship leader at this church and have been told on multiple occasions that I'm very talented vocally, but that's not my passion (Not now, anyway).

It would be a budget project of course, but we would use a Neumann mic, Pro Tools 10, a nice pair of Yamaha monitors, etc etc.

I really want to do it, but I'm scared to not go to school. Will this be enough? After this, I want to use the mixes as a sign of the quality of my work to get an internship in Toronto working at a studio. I then want to go off and become Pro Tools certified by Avid Designs. All the while I will be doing programming on the side with a talented artist.

I just need to know, is this possible? Is it realistic? I really don't know what to do, but I really have a passion for music. I have really spent every penny I have on gear, I invest hours into research, understanding and application. Can this get me somewhere? Or is life a "Go to school or fail" jig?
Go to school, but not for audio, music, or anything in liberal arts. Get a real degree and do this on the side. This will prevent you from waking up at age 30 with 4.00 in the bank and a AVID Certified rating, which might be a different company by then anyway lol

50 per cent of all college students don't know what they want to major in when they start college. Don't let that bother you. There is plenty of time to take electives to experiment with what might interest you, and there are so many subjects that you might be good at something you haven't even considered yet.

Really, don't even think about it.

TH
Old 13th February 2013
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Googlesgod View Post
I am taking the lead, but my Dad (Who has sang and mixed 2 cds) said he would happily oversee me, and make sure I'm on the right track, give help when needed, etc. I also have good, intelligent people working around me, so I'm definitely not worried about that.
So I suppose your dad is a professional engineer, producer, or mix engineer? Not saying you won't produce something valid and learn a few things along the way, but the best way to learn this trade is to ply it under the tutelage of people actually doing this for a living WHO ALSO put out work you respect/admire.

And about not wanting to go to school.... just do it. Take a lot of electives for the first 2 years, with some core classes in programming, and then after that, if you're not loving programming, pursue another interest, or drop school altogether and devote yourself to music.
Old 13th February 2013
  #9
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Googlesgod View Post
It's getting close to that time. I'm in grade 12 and am starting to constantly think about my future, what I want to do.

There are two things I want to do:

Audio engineering
Programming

I was given an opportunity in September the year I'm out of school, and that's to take the lead recording, engineering, then mixing and master mixing a church CD. I am currently a worship leader at this church and have been told on multiple occasions that I'm very talented vocally, but that's not my passion (Not now, anyway).

It would be a budget project of course, but we would use a Neumann mic, Pro Tools 10, a nice pair of Yamaha monitors, etc etc.

I really want to do it, but I'm scared to not go to school. Will this be enough? After this, I want to use the mixes as a sign of the quality of my work to get an internship in Toronto working at a studio. I then want to go off and become Pro Tools certified by Avid Designs. All the while I will be doing programming on the side with a talented artist.

I just need to know, is this possible? Is it realistic? I really don't know what to do, but I really have a passion for music. I have really spent every penny I have on gear, I invest hours into research, understanding and application. Can this get me somewhere? Or is life a "Go to school or fail" jig?
Hi, I’m currently a professional with a BA in Music Performance/Education and a MA in Communications. However, my occupation has little to do with either degree, but I have found the Communications degree to be very beneficial in terms of job marketability. As a senior in high school I was in a very similar situation to what you describe and at a real crossroads in my life. Here's my advice from 20 years of additional experience; so, take it or leave it:

If you’re going to go to school for something music related make sure it’s a highly accredited school, and if you’re going to pursue audio engineering or something of that ilk, make sure they have a very good intern program. Belmont University in Nashville comes to mind, and I was actually offered a scholarship there many moons ago. However, I turned it down due to the out of state expenses and the financial burden it would have placed on my parents at the time. That said, I had three friends who graduated from there in the 90s with degrees in Business and Audio Engineering, and all three of them had very good jobs in the business upon graduation due to Belmont’s interning program.

If going to a top notch university like Belmont or Berkley for Audio Engineering and/or Music Business is not feasible for whatever reason, then look at other course tract alternatives. Don’t bother or waste your time and money with schools that offer mere certificates. You need something more tangible than that (i.e., you need a school that will offer you hands on field experience and a real opportunity at gainful employment).

Otherwise, go to school for something else entirely, and purse the audio engineering thing on the side. I would not forgo college to stay home and do audio engineering at my local church. I realize right now that seems like a great opportunity, and maybe it is in the short term. Yet, don’t sell your future out for that. If you can go to a local university, get your core courses out of the way, and do the church gig too then great. But, I wouldn’t place all my eggs in that basket. You’re not going to build a substantial future doing part time audio engineering IME. Twenty years ago it was easier to make a living in that field than it is now because they’re just weren’t as many people with those skill sets. Now, everybody and his brother is an “audio engineer, “ just like everyone is a “rock star” and playing in a band. That market is saturated.

So, go to school, and you may find—depending on where you go to school—you can do both right now. Like I said, you need to get some core classes out of the way anyway, right? You can probably do that at your local university or junior college within your commuting area. . This will give you an opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. You’ll be taking the necessary classes; you can still work with your church doing the audio engineering thing, and this will also afford you the time to figure out exactly what tract you want to pursue in college. You may find out that you’re really great at math, for example, and that architecture or engineering is something you want to do.

Don’t sell yourself short, and don’t necessarily look at this as an either/or proposition. Why not do both for a little while and see how it goes? But, if you have to choose for some reason, go to school. College is the experience of a life time, and you’ll forever regret not going if you don’t go now.

Chris
Old 13th February 2013
  #10
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GreenNeedle's Avatar
 

You can learn all you need to learn without going to school and you'll save a ton of money if you don't go. Those place are designed to make money, they are businesses, you don't NEED their product, as much as they will try to convince you you do, you don't.

Find a mentor or two who are willing to take some time to show you things and answer tough questions and start learning.

It's like this, if you are one of the ones who is determined, you will get there regardless, if you need your hand held you will fail miserably anyway. So skip school, save the money, the outcome will be the same.

Take the school money, buy some modest gear and start learning how to use it.
Old 13th February 2013
  #11
Lives for gear
Quote:
You can learn all you need to learn without going to school and you'll save a ton of money if you don't go. Those place are designed to make money, they are businesses, you don't NEED their product, as much as they will try to convince you you do, you don't.

Find a mentor or two who are willing to take some time to show you things and answer tough questions and start learning.

It's like this, if you are one of the ones who is determined, you will get there regardless, if you need your hand held you will fail miserably anyway. So skip school, save the money, the outcome will be the same.

Take the school money, buy some modest gear and start learning how to use it.
Unless, of course, you want to do something in the professional field….if we’re just talking audio engineering or layman’s work, then yes, I agree with your sentiment. Yet, if the OP has any aspirations whatsoever of pursuing anything in the professional world he’d better pursue higher education. Trying applying for a job in the medical, instructional, technological, financial, et al. fields with that sentiment, and see where it get you. In the real world that diploma shows an employer two things: 1). You have met the basic prerequisite requirements for that job. 2). You have follow-through and dedication enough to see your way through to a diploma. All the other crap can walk. Yeah, I have some student debts, but I also make a whole lot more than the average guy without a college education, and in a market such as this, I have many more options available to me when the economy goes south. That’s the difference.

I thank God my doctor, my accountant, and my lawyers all have adequate educations in their fields. I can’t imagine, for example, asking about a doctor’s credentials and him telling me, "I learned all I needed to learn without going to school, and I saved money in the process. Now, when would you like me to schedule that surgery?"

Chris
Old 13th February 2013
  #12
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BTW, I have used that BA in Music as a launching pad for employment in the past. I taught music in public school for a while before I decided to switch gears and do something else. Yet, before, during, and long after that I continued teaching private lessons. That has always been a good financial safety net for me, while trying to work myself through grad school and then my wife through grad school. That experience also opened me up to performing with a lot of great musicians and ensembles I would never otherwise had the opportunities to perform with.

You’ll find that for the most part—no matter what school or program you attend—you’ll get out of your education what you put into it. Much of the payoff is in the education itself, BUT a lot more of the payoff is the opportunities that are afforded to you in those environments. A good program will expose you to people and places that would otherwise never have the opportunity to experience. Whether you take advantage of those opportunities is up to you. Yet, college can be a great place to start networking and making connections—especially if you’re in a good program that brings in hard hitting industry players. That’s why I say, if you’re going to go to school for audio engineering, go big or stay home, and do something else.
Old 13th February 2013
  #13
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Funny Cat's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Googlesgod View Post
It's getting close to that time. I'm in grade 12 and am starting to constantly think about my future, what I want to do.

There are two things I want to do:

Audio engineering
Programming

I was given an opportunity in September the year I'm out of school, and that's to take the lead recording, engineering, then mixing and master mixing a church CD. I am currently a worship leader at this church and have been told on multiple occasions that I'm very talented vocally, but that's not my passion (Not now, anyway).

It would be a budget project of course, but we would use a Neumann mic, Pro Tools 10, a nice pair of Yamaha monitors, etc etc.

I really want to do it, but I'm scared to not go to school.

Definitely take on this challenge. You will learn a lot even if it doesn't come out the way you expect it to sound. Heck, quite often we learn the most from the projects that turn out the worse. You will learn time and resource management. You will get your first taste of directing other musicians. You will learn how to set up cue mixes and some basic gain staging and recording technique just for starters. Just do it!





Quote:
Will this be enough? After this, I want to use the mixes as a sign of the quality of my work to get an internship in Toronto working at a studio.
No! This will NOT be enough. It will take you years and years and years of trial and error to get to the mythical place you think you need to be at to be a "professional" AE. 10,000 hours...ever heard of that? There are no shortcuts so start now! And by the way, the mixes will NOT be able to get you a gig in the studio if this is your first experience. Trust me. I'm not here to blow any smoke. The only thing that can get you into a studio is humility and willingness to learn.





Quote:
I then want to go off and become Pro Tools certified by Avid Designs. All the while I will be doing programming on the side with a talented artist.
Don't do it! The Pro tools thing I mean. I'm certified and it has never ever helped me get a gig. Ever. Period. Pro tools is NOT a skill. It's just a way to get your $$$. Any half witt can learn pro tools in a day. It's not that hard. Once you understand general engineering principles every single DAW is conquerable and on equal grounds. Just look at some Kenny Gioia videos to get the basics of pro tools and then work on your people skills. That will get you many, many, many gigs in life! Trust me! Definitely do programming on the side. The salaries are very competitive. If you don't have a back up plan, then you're just planning to fail.





Quote:
I just need to know, is this possible? Is it realistic? I really don't know what to do, but I really have a passion for music. I have really spent every penny I have on gear, I invest hours into research, understanding and application. Can this get me somewhere? Or is life a "Go to school or fail" jig?
Yes. This is possible. Don't worry about school right now. Go out and intern somewhere. Get some work experience. Besides, if you go to school right now you will slack. If you wait a little bit you will have a better idea what you want and you will excel because when you know what you want to do the resolve to succeed is greater. The part I highlighted is an excellent trait. This will get you far. Listen...watch...and then do. That's how you'll learn.

And above all...get your people skills down. People will throw all kinds of opportunities at you if they like you.




Good luck...
Old 13th February 2013
  #14
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BillSimpkins's Avatar
Go to school for programming and learn how to engineer too. You can do both .... I do.
They compliment each other nicely.
Old 13th February 2013
  #15
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GreenNeedle's Avatar
 

The op asked if it's go to school or bust at the end of his post.

It is not.

Again if you are determined you don't need school.

I disagree with the need for a piece of paper to show your credibility, sounds nice, and in some fields yes, it is a prerequisite, but those fields are filled with people who don't think for themselves, that isn't what music is about.

And in fact i would highly suggest moving towards self employment to anyone and everyone in EVERY field anyway, and that requires perseverance and gusto and passion, not an expensive piece of paper except in a few cases, Doctor, dentist etc.

If someone is hiring you for any other reasons than your ability, aptitude and personality, Run.

It's a personality thing and a perspective thing, if you view your success as being dependent on outside things and people, then yes you will choose school as you main means to learn.

If you view your potential success and being something totally and completely in your own control, you will mix and match which ever methods seem to make the most sense to get to your goal and in a way that works for you and your circumstances.

School can be great for some things, a course here, a semester there, maybe some music theory etc.

I just hate to see people subscribe to the concept that you HAVE to go to an institution and do x years etc etc.

Its nonsense.

It's one of the many concepts that gets less and less questioned generation to generation, like the way we generally accept being bombarded by advertising as a way of life.
It's wrong but we grew up with it so its accepted.

Well, maybe school is wrong on some levels, just think about it, put some time into thinking about how it pertains to you as an individual, and consider the cost of it, some schools are ****ing ridiculously expensive.

That might just be a sign of some kind.
Old 13th February 2013
  #16
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Remember, those aren't your only two options. Depending on your motivation level and ability to work independently, it might make sense to take a year to work on music independently, make the album, do an internship, etc, before going to school. I think there's a good chance that such a choice could make your time at school a lot more valuable.

What everyone has said is true. College is not a necessity for success. It is expensive, and for music you can learn a lot, more, on your own. That said, school diversifies and qualifies your skills, is a great way to network and explore, and is a lot of fun.

For me, school was the right choice. But I also did a lot on the side out of school, and I learned as much if not more there. Whatever you do, stay focused, surround yourself with motivated, more capable people, and you will find success.
Old 13th February 2013
  #17
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News Flash: If you want to work in a field that will provide you a viable income and that doesn’t require you to ask “do you want fries with that?” day in and day out then you need a college education. Unless you want to work as a day laborer, fry cook, or stock boy at Wal-Mart—and there’s nothing wrong with that—you’d better heed what I’m telling you because this is the voice of experience talking. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, but exceptions do not prove the rule.

You’ll notice the people who tell you that you don’t need to go to school are people who either never went to school or people who went for a short while and dropped out for whatever reason i.e., they (failed). Yet, the proof is in the pudding. People with a college education on average make significantly more than those without, and that is a standing fact in the U.S. today. I would defy anyone to find credible research from credible sources that indicates otherwise. Good luck with that!

Also, going to college doesn’t mean you have to accumulate or assume massive amounts of debt. First of all, if you stay in state you should be able to keep your expenses to a minimal. It’s the out of state tuition that kills so many people. Also, there are lots of scholarships and grants available. You just need to know where to look within your program, and a good academic advisor should be able to point you in the right direction.

Anyway, the point of a university is to help develop your aptitude and your abilities. As for character and personality, you either have that or you don’t. But here’s another news flash: most of your high paying jobs in this country require at least a bachelor’s degree or 4 year equivalent, and all the other bull**** about personality, aptitude, etc. can walk. Yes, those are necessary attributes to any and all success in life, BUT you can’t even get to the interview phase without that “piece of paper” for most lucratively prospective jobs. Without that “piece of paper” most employers aren’t even going to talk to you. Whether that’s right or wrong, it doesn’t matter. The question is, do you want to earn (EARN) and education and have the opportunity to live in a higher tax bracket, or are you content with the alternatives?

That said, I would be very leery of taking advice from people who downplay and dismiss the significance of higher education. The thing you’ll discover as you go through life is that ignorant people NEVER recognize their own ignorance. However, I would challenge you to take stock of the people around you (i.e., people in your church, parents of your friends, and people you come in contact with day after day). Look at the successful ones, and then look at the highly opinionated but not so successful ones. What you’ll usually find is one of the common denominators there is higher education or lack thereof.

Bottom line: attempts at compensating for inadequacies and lack of achievement are not the yardsticks by which success is measured in this society, and delusions of grandeur need not apply. Yes, that “piece of paper” does afford you opportunities that you otherwise would not have, and again, if you don’t believe that just try to get an apprenticeship as an architect, engineer, accountant, doctor, lawyer, nurse, school teacher, bank manager, financial consultant, editor, etc. etc. etc. The point is, you can’t even get your foot in the door of most entry level positions in the professional world without that “piece of paper,” and anyone who is telling you otherwise is lying to you or speaking out of ignorance.

Chris
Old 13th February 2013
  #18
School is very necessary, and having been through the 'system' (primary, finishing in an MA) I would say that education should never be skipped out. however, i don't think (along with many others) that a degree in Audio is a good idea - far better to get a degree in something also relevant to you whilst pursuing AE on the side. you can always concentrate on it later.

the majority (i think even ALL) of what i learned about audio, i taught myself or learned along the way and through experience. the best way to go, of course in my opinion, is to carry on with school, pursue audio whenever you can and try and learn from real life situations and people. Oceantracks also makes a good point.
Old 14th February 2013
  #19
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Googlesgod View Post
It's getting close to that time. I'm in grade 12 and am starting to constantly think about my future, what I want to do.

There are two things I want to do:

Audio engineering
Programming
I was not able to find your answer to the question about the programming...

If you are talking about programming songs into the computer, your chances of making a living at it are about the same as audio engineering or being a musician. It's a tough road.

It you are talking about working as a computer programmer, writing software, that is a career with a much better potential for paying work. Of course, it's not music. Paying well enough perhaps that you could use your discretionary income to buy lots of studio toys.

Quote:
I was given an opportunity in September the year I'm out of school, and that's to take the lead recording, engineering, then mixing and master mixing a church CD.

I really want to do it, but I'm scared to not go to school.
as well you should be. Not that going to school for Audio Engineering is such a pathway to fame and fortune either, but realistically, this is just one gig.

If you were a professional recording engineer you would be doing a job like this every few weeks. If you were a student in a program you would be making an album probably every semester as your Project. You are considering booting your entire education for this one "opportunity"? How many CDs will your church sell? Even if they do better than expected, will it put you on the Map, so to speak? When this album is done, does the church make another one right away? Some other church nearby?

Are you going to learn everything you need to know as an audio engineer by making ONE album?

Quote:
Will this be enough? After this, I want to use the mixes as a sign of the quality of my work to get an internship in Toronto working at a studio.
Will it be enough to get an unpaid internship? Are you listening to how your own question sounds? A studio looking for an intern probably does not have any MIXING work for him to do!

Quote:
I then want to go off and become Pro Tools certified by Avid Designs.
Search out the many threads here on GS on the value (or lack of value) of these kinds of courses, and whether they help you get a job or not.


Quote:
All the while I will be doing programming on the side with a talented artist.
so this "programming" you speak of IS 'programming beats'?
Old 14th February 2013
  #20
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
I was not able to find your answer to the question about the programming...

If you are talking about programming songs into the computer, your chances of making a living at it are about the same as audio engineering or being a musician. It's a tough road.

It you are talking about working as a computer programmer, writing software, that is a career with a much better potential for paying work. Of course, it's not music. Paying well enough perhaps that you could use your discretionary income to buy lots of studio toys.



as well you should be. Not that going to school for Audio Engineering is such a pathway to fame and fortune either, but realistically, this is just one gig.

If you were a professional recording engineer you would be doing a job like this every few weeks. You are considering booting your entire education for this one "opportunity"? How many CDs will your church sell? Even if they do better than expected, will it put you on the Map, so to speak? When this album is done, does the church make another one right away? Some other church nearby?

Are you going to learn everything you need to know as an audio engineer by making ONE album?



Will it be enough to get an unpaid internship? Are you listening to how your own question sounds? A studio looking for an intern probably does not have any MIXING work for him to do!

Search out the many threads here on GS on the value (or lack of value) of these kinds of courses, and whether they help you get a job or not.




so this "programming" you speak of IS 'programming beats'?
You have some good points there, but this one gig would probably take me a while. I don't have too much experience with mixing, and I am very picky. I can imagine it would take in the ballpark of months.

Also, for the programming, I meant an actual artist in the sense of drawing. If I were to do programming it would most likely be in game development as that's what interests me the most and has the biggest market.

Thank you for all the replies guys! I do have a nearby College I could go to, it's nothing fancy but I could start there. I would probably do it for programming as most of you basically said to steer away from doing music in school.
Old 14th February 2013
  #21
Gear Addict
 

I generally only take career advise from those that are where I want to be. Keep that in mind.
Old 14th February 2013
  #22
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Googlesgod View Post
Also, for the programming, I meant an actual artist in the sense of drawing. If I were to do programming it would most likely be in game development as that's what interests me the most and has the biggest market.
.
Games are not the biggest or most lucrative of computer programming markets. They pay well, sure, but any IT work in finance pays better and is a far bigger industry....


As you were....
Old 14th February 2013
  #23
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narcoman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
I generally only take career advise from those that are where I want to be. Keep that in mind.
Where do you want to be?
Old 14th February 2013
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretsch 6120 View Post

That said, I would be very leery of taking advice from people who downplay and dismiss the significance of higher education. The thing you’ll discover as you go through life is that ignorant people NEVER recognize their own ignorance. However, I would challenge you to take stock of the people around you (i.e., people in your church, parents of your friends, and people you come in contact with day after day). Look at the successful ones, and then look at the highly opinionated but not so successful ones. What you’ll usually find is one of the common denominators there is higher education or lack thereof.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would downplay the importance of an education in this day and age. What we are discussing in this thread is an audio education. Even the folks who say skip audio engineering school (like me) feel he should go on and study something that may hold some value in today's society. But do it when you are ready and know what you want or at least have an idea what you want.

I have a pretty sweet job handling audio and video for a huge federal entity. I have autonomy, get to travel a little bit, get all the bank holidays (a few times I almost came in to work on federal holidays by mistake, ouch!) and almost never work past 5 O'clock. I graduated audio engineering school top of my class but you know what? None of that mattered. When I was hired my supervisor said to me...of all the interviewees, you had the least experience with Codecs and Video bridges etc. but we can train you. We just liked your positive attitude. This is my second career and I've always been good working with and helping people and that's what has always got me the gigs.

Here is a little pearl, If I had it to do all over again, I would go to school for Computer Sciences or a degree in EE. With those types of skills you will always be employable. Note to OP...none of the stuff I learned in school gets used when I'm freelancing or doing production work on the side for clients. Not even the pro tools certs.



P.S. keep those student loans to a bare minimum.
Old 14th February 2013
  #25
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LimeMusic's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Googlesgod View Post
I really have a passion for music.
You know, I said the same thing 10 years ago. I have a B.M. in Classical Guitar performance, used to tour a lot, making next to nothing.

Now I teach guitar lessons on the side, I just performed at a pretty big CD release concert in Chicago for an up and coming Christian Rap artists, and I record my own music, and help my friends record their stuff.

I do all of that for nothing now. Don't charge at all. I have a main job in technology that pays everything, and I get to do what I love on the side without having to worry about the mediocre living I'd make if I relied on music related things to make money, and I make tons of great connections and have a blast.

My point is, just because you are passionate about something, it doesn't mean you have to do ONLY that. In some cases, trying to make money from that thing you are "passionate" about might be the worst thing you can do for yourself and your future.

To answer your original question, if I were you I would without a doubt TAKE the gig with the church CD. Sounds like a good time, but do it to learn and enjoy the experience. If it leads to something else, that's great, but seriously, go to school for something else besides music/recording/"programming".
Old 14th February 2013
  #26
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman View Post
Where do you want to be?
Doesn't matter where I want to be, it's the OP trying to figure out how to get where he wants to be. Was just general advice on the subject. It's basic, but I feel it gets forgotten sometimes.
Old 14th February 2013
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
Doesn't matter where I want to be, it's the OP trying to figure out how to get where he wants to be. Was just general advice on the subject. It's basic, but I feel it gets forgotten sometimes.
Totally. Then we should ask him that question.
Old 14th February 2013
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretsch 6120 View Post
News Flash: If you want to work in a field that will provide you a viable income and that doesn’t require you to ask “do you want fries with that?” day in and day out then you need a college education. Unless you want to work as a day laborer, fry cook, or stock boy at Wal-Mart—and there’s nothing wrong with that—you’d better heed what I’m telling you because this is the voice of experience talking. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, but exceptions do not prove the rule.

You’ll notice the people who tell you that you don’t need to go to school are people who either never went to school or people who went for a short while and dropped out for whatever reason i.e., they (failed). Yet, the proof is in the pudding. People with a college education on average make significantly more than those without, and that is a standing fact in the U.S. today. I would defy anyone to find credible research from credible sources that indicates otherwise. Good luck with that!

Also, going to college doesn’t mean you have to accumulate or assume massive amounts of debt. First of all, if you stay in state you should be able to keep your expenses to a minimal. It’s the out of state tuition that kills so many people. Also, there are lots of scholarships and grants available. You just need to know where to look within your program, and a good academic advisor should be able to point you in the right direction.

Anyway, the point of a university is to help develop your aptitude and your abilities. As for character and personality, you either have that or you don’t. But here’s another news flash: most of your high paying jobs in this country require at least a bachelor’s degree or 4 year equivalent, and all the other bull**** about personality, aptitude, etc. can walk. Yes, those are necessary attributes to any and all success in life, BUT you can’t even get to the interview phase without that “piece of paper” for most lucratively prospective jobs. Without that “piece of paper” most employers aren’t even going to talk to you. Whether that’s right or wrong, it doesn’t matter. The question is, do you want to earn (EARN) and education and have the opportunity to live in a higher tax bracket, or are you content with the alternatives?

That said, I would be very leery of taking advice from people who downplay and dismiss the significance of higher education. The thing you’ll discover as you go through life is that ignorant people NEVER recognize their own ignorance. However, I would challenge you to take stock of the people around you (i.e., people in your church, parents of your friends, and people you come in contact with day after day). Look at the successful ones, and then look at the highly opinionated but not so successful ones. What you’ll usually find is one of the common denominators there is higher education or lack thereof.

Bottom line: attempts at compensating for inadequacies and lack of achievement are not the yardsticks by which success is measured in this society, and delusions of grandeur need not apply. Yes, that “piece of paper” does afford you opportunities that you otherwise would not have, and again, if you don’t believe that just try to get an apprenticeship as an architect, engineer, accountant, doctor, lawyer, nurse, school teacher, bank manager, financial consultant, editor, etc. etc. etc. The point is, you can’t even get your foot in the door of most entry level positions in the professional world without that “piece of paper,” and anyone who is telling you otherwise is lying to you or speaking out of ignorance.

Chris
It's clear you have those opinions and feelings because you subscribe to the model, reluctantly i would guess too.
My point is that no one has to subscribe to it.
A good portion of some of the richest people in the world didn't have institutional secondary education, if riches are what you are after.

Riches are far from satisfaction and piece of mind and character.

You are wrong that people either have character or not.

Character is earned and developed, through challenge and experience.
The model you subscribe to allows for very little character development, it is safe and common.

This isn't a little play, it is life, we hold and control how it plays out. We each have our individualism which needs to be nurtured.
Throwing a couple Starbucks dollars in with your resume along with a piece of paper that says you spend a great deal of time and money learning insignificant nonsense, for some reason, for me, doesn't point to someone taking hold of their life and directing their own future.

The forgotten meaning of life is in fact to challenge yourself and your weaknesses and develop your character. So i am not stating one should not wokl hard or stop learning, i am saying work your ass off but do it your way only.

Sure you can dump yourself in a pre-made track and hope nothing scares you or knocks you out for the rest of your sweet consumer laden time, but the thing is it will anyway. If you take the self deciding route, you will develop a strong, secure character and when the storm hits you will deal with it like just another problem, instead of a catastrophic nightmare.

I'm not going to bother defending my position on all your points, you clearly are uncomfortable with the freedom of a different path than the one you took and I'm not interested in arguing about it. Many many people lead prosperous, fulfilled, genuine lives without institutional education, yes without those BUSINESSES designed to "help you".
As you think those without your education are lost and perhaps pitiful, as do we about those in the track.
Old 14th February 2013
  #29
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Go to school, but not for audio, music, or anything in liberal arts. Get a real degree and do this on the side. This will prevent you from waking up at age 30 with 4.00 in the bank and a AVID Certified rating, which might be a different company by then anyway lol

50 per cent of all college students don't know what they want to major in when they start college. Don't let that bother you. There is plenty of time to take electives to experiment with what might interest you, and there are so many subjects that you might be good at something you haven't even considered yet.

Really, don't even think about it.

TH
Bingo. Major in business, you can minor in something music or audio relates if you want....



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727
Old 14th February 2013
  #30
Lives for gear
 
GreenNeedle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Googlesgod View Post

Thank you for all the replies guys! I do have a nearby College I could go to, it's nothing fancy but I could start there. I would probably do it for programming as most of you basically said to steer away from doing music in school.
Whoa a second, if performance is your goal than things are bit different.
There is an experience that you can get playing music with people in music colleges that, as it may have been available with regular gigs decades ago no longer is as easy to come across.
Again you have to look at you own independent situation.
There are some good college programs where you submerse yourself in theory and composition and performance for a couple years that will be of nothing but benefit to you in the long run.
Given the lack of potential to even go out and make a ****ty living playing in cover bands, going to a decently priced college with a good program will put you miles ahead of many other people in the music business no matter which field you decide to ultimately focus on.

Going to school for recording is another story.
Remember, the fundamental element of this all is music, and your understanding and intimacy with the music itself should always be your first and foremost focus, in education and in your day to day, no matter if you are engineering or playing the parts.
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