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Radial stops using Jensen transformer in JDI duplex? Direct Injection & Re-amp Boxes
Old 21st January 2013
  #1
Gear Head
 

Radial stops using Jensen transformer in JDI duplex?

Im looking for alternatives and prices in diferent webs, my original idea was buy the Radial JDI Duplex for two ch, but.... my surprice was that in the official Radial web page they change the label "jensen equiped direct box" for "transformer isolated"
JDI Duplex™ - Stereo Direct Box
Radial Engineering JDI Duplex Mk4 - Thomann Cyberstore Espa

(i compare two, one of the Radial web and another from a seller in europe)

what happen here? JDI was a Jensen DI.... i dont want a "Eclipse" Transformer... who are these guys... sorry... but in cant understand.
someone tryed this mod Radial DI???
Old 21st January 2013
  #2
Gear Maniac
Try Cable Factory in British Colombia they use Luhndal transfos
Old 22nd January 2013
  #3
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
I would recommend contacting Radial DIRECTLY for a DIRECT answer, hahahaha. But seriously, the duplex is great, I have had mine a few years, and also, they will answer your questions through email.
Old 22nd January 2013
  #4
Gear Head
 

they dont answer

I wrote em a few weeks ago for ask about dealers here in my country, but never answered...
Old 22nd January 2013
  #5
Lives for gear
 
nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 

Buy the Jensen's and build you own...
Not that big of a deal..
Old 23rd January 2013
  #6
Gear Head
 

cable factory is the deal

Cable Factory is the bets choice, ceaper than radial, (much more) and they use Lundhal transformer... they are the best!
for bit more money that 1 DI radial cost, i buy a stereo one from CF!!!
Old 23rd January 2013
  #7
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
how much do those Cable Factory DI's cost?
Old 1st February 2013
  #8
Gear Head
 

Cable Factory is grate

i bought Cable Factory Stereo DI box, cost 220 usd, two channels, Lundahl transformers, amazing contruction, im very happy! and they are very comunicative people! write them, ask them
1+ for CF !!
Old 7th February 2013
  #9
Gear Head
 

Just curious.. has anyone learned why Radial made the switch from Jensen to Eclipse Transformers? I contacted Radial directly but haven't heard back. Wondering if this is an honest improvement to the DI or just a cost-saving decision..

I hope this isn't like Neumann "improving" the KM84.
Old 7th February 2013
  #10
Lives for gear
 
cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by j.m.lad View Post
Just curious.. has anyone learned why Radial made the switch from Jensen to Eclipse Transformers? I contacted Radial directly but haven't heard back. Wondering if this is an honest improvement to the DI or just a cost-saving decision..

I hope this isn't like Neumann "improving" the KM84.
I don't know if they did change xformers or not.. But if they did is highly possible that is for saving money.. Jensen's are not cheap and for a good reason: they scream QUALITY.

Btw I'd not be worried at all..Just let Radial save money (if it's so), and you should save money and headaches too and get the Jensen DI box: the ISO-MAX.. You could have it configured with all sort of connectors too if needed..(and built like a tank).

JENSEN TRANSFORMERS, INC. - ISO-MAX

Seems that very few people know about these boxes.. I discovered them on Avedis Audio website: avedisaudio.com

If it's good for a very knowledgeable professional obsessed by quality like Avedis, then it's good for me.. heh



Cheu
Old 7th February 2013
  #11
Gear Head
 

Thanks Cheu! Great find. The Radial JDI Duplex that arrived the other day (and was advertised as having Jensen Transformers) is in fact the new version with Eclipse Xformers which is stated in the accompanying documentation. Looks like it's being returned for a refund.

Just ordered the DB-2PX and saved $100 in the process. Thanks again for the heads up
Old 7th February 2013
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Joe_K's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by j.m.lad View Post
Just curious.. has anyone learned why Radial made the switch from Jensen to Eclipse Transformers? I contacted Radial directly but haven't heard back. Wondering if this is an honest improvement to the DI or just a cost-saving decision..
This is what Radial has to say in their JDI Duplex and JD6 FAQ (they still advertise Jensen in their mono JDI):

How does the Eclipse transformer compare to the Jensen?

The performance is virtually identical. The frequency response and phase shift is identical while the Eclipse is able to handle slightly more level. But to be honest, the difference is so minute that you can barely measure any variance, let alone hear it.

Why did Radial change the transformer from a Jensen to an Eclipse?

This mostly has to do with supply. Jensen is a small company and unable to keep up with our requirements. The demand for Radial direct boxes is growing and we have to be able to deliver products in a timely fashion. So we began looking for a second source some time back and are very pleased with the results.

Is the Eclipse the same quality as the Jensen?

Yes. When we purchased Reamp, we were delighted to find that the transformer company that John Cuniberti was using inside the original Reamp was able to produce a variety of custom transformers. We had them make a custom direct box transformer to our specification and found that it worked equally well as the Jensen. Both are made in the USA and employ similar wire, nickel laminations, potting techniques, mu-metal cans and so on.

What is the Eclipse brand?

Eclipse is a sister company that is part of Radial. As one of the world's biggest users of audio transformers, we felt that the time had come where we could share our expertise with the audio community and market transformers under out own brand.
Old 7th February 2013
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Vintageidiot's Avatar
That would seem to make sense, but saying Jensen could not keep up seems odd. Someone should see what Jensen has to say.....probably a cost issue. But buying your suppliers has been pretty standard for some time now in the business world....
Old 7th February 2013
  #14
Lives for gear
 
12ax7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheu78 View Post

[...]
..Just let Radial save money (if it's so), and you should save money and headaches too and get the Jensen DI box: the ISO-MAX.. You could have it configured with all sort of connectors too if needed..(and built like a tank).

JENSEN TRANSFORMERS, INC. - ISO-MAX

Seems that very few people know about these boxes.. I discovered them on Avedis Audio website: avedisaudio.com

If it's good for a very knowledgeable professional obsessed by quality like Avedis, then it's good for me.. heh
Looks like a great box, but you'd have to modify it to receive instrument level anyway to use it as a DI.

...As it says on the page you linked to:
"The Model DB-2PX is designed to provide over 100dB of common mode isolation at 60Hz while converting Line level +4dBu signals to Microphone level -38dBu signals."
Still might be worth it, though.

Pretty sure they're using a resistive pad to drop the level that much, and I'd just make it switchable so you could still use it for line level sources.

I'd also want to add a ground lift.

...And hell, while you're at it you might also add the extra guts to provide an unbalanced instrument output, as well.

At that point you'd essentially have a DI/re-amp box, but I wonder just how much of a bargain it would really turn out to be (once you'd spent the time and coin to do all that).
.
Old 7th February 2013
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Joe_K's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vintageidiot View Post
That would seem to make sense, but saying Jensen could not keep up seems odd. Someone should see what Jensen has to say.....probably a cost issue. But buying your suppliers has been pretty standard for some time now in the business world....
Agreed. They don't seem to be quite as willing to take Jensen out of the bread and butter JDI yet, or they still have a bunch of them sitting in a warehouse with Jensens for now.

BTW ... love Radial stuff, really. I don't think I'd return it just because it wasn't a Jensen. I'd compare it myself first and then decide. Someone here will get around to it sooner or later ...
Old 7th February 2013
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Joe_K's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by j.m.lad View Post
The Radial JDI Duplex that arrived the other day (and was advertised as having Jensen Transformers) is in fact the new version with Eclipse Xformers which is stated in the accompanying documentation. Looks like it's being returned for a refund.
I'm curious what you actually thought of the JDI duplex with the Eclipse xformer when you tried it.

I get it that it wasn't what you wanted or were expecting, but how did it perform?
Old 8th February 2013
  #17
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
I'm actually not to precious over the Jensen sound in my JDI Duplex. I think there's a lot of hype going on with that brand name. DonGetMeWrong it sounds pretty good, but, I would probably be just as happy with a Lundahl, Eclipse, etc. I don't think "Jensen" is the end all component in direct boxes.
Old 8th February 2013
  #18
Lives for gear
 
cheu78's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 View Post
[INDENT]Looks like a great box, but you'd have to modify it to receive instrument level anyway to use it as a DI.
Their website is not the easiest to navigate, but the DI I saw, had some switches and you could use it as DI instrument input (check on the avedis website).
If I remember correctly it has some switches (on the outside) to modify the input level to your needs..
I used it two years ago.. it was great! heh



Cheu
Old 8th February 2013
  #19
I wouldn't sweat it, honestly. Transformers have more to do with material and care put into making them rather than some magic secret formula. If the eclipse trannys are wound to the same spec as the previous Jensen transformer than their marketing is likely right. you probably can't tell a difference without measurement equipment.

I remember buying a dozen Profile 4804s for $100. They were identical to API 2503s (which Profile made for them). After pressure from API Profile stopped winding them but it goes to show you how inexpensively quality iron can be made.

Radial is a great company. The fact that the eclipse is good enough for the product speaks more of its' quality than the name does.
Old 8th February 2013
  #20
ISO-MAX® DB-2PX Stereo Direct Box Isolator - Jensen Transformers

You can use the Jenson DB-2PX to plug instruments into preamps. Check their PDF datasheet:
www.jensen-transformers.com/datashts/db2px.pdf
Quote:
ISO-MAX® DB-2PX Stereo Direct Box Isolator - Jensen Transformers
DUAL "DIRECT BOX" ISOLATOR
SOLVES MUSICAL INSTRUMENT HOOK-UP PROBLEMS
  • Converts unbalanced line levels to balanced mic level output
  • Stops "hum and buzz" problems in musical instrument hook-ups
  • Allows use of long cables without high frequency loss
  • High common-mode rejection: 100 dB at 60 Hz
  • Excellent frequency response and time domain performance
When loaded by the 1 kS input impedance typical of mic preamplifiers, this isolator has a 140 kS input impedance, making it ideal for high impedance sources. It can be used with or without an active buffer as a "direct box" for electric guitars or synthesizers. 30 dB magnetic shielding is standard.
Old 11th February 2013
  #21
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_K View Post
I'm curious what you actually thought of the JDI duplex with the Eclipse xformer when you tried it.

I get it that it wasn't what you wanted or were expecting, but how did it perform?
It performed admirably. I decided to keep it. Useful box to have around. Much like the older DI with the Jensen (which I used to have) I find it adds a subtle pleasant coloration to anything that goes through it.

I found a particularly lovely combo to be a Gibson LP Studio > Radial DI > API 512c > Mytek ADDA. I don't usually go direct on guitars but this was pretty unbelievable. A little EchoBoy ITB and you're there.

If the Exlipse xformers weren't up to par, I'm sure Radial wouldn't use them. They have a pretty darn good reputation and make top notch gear. Now back to making music
Old 10th May 2013
  #22
Gear Nut
 

Eclipse Transformers

Hi Gear Slutz...

Please allow me a minute to clarify. We are Jensen's largest customer and currently absorb a huge percentage of their production. Over the past 20 years we have worked very closely with Jensen at many levels. Jensen make wonderful transformers. But with demand for Radial exceeding Jensen's ability to supply, we have been diligently working with other USA manufacturers to develop similar products. By doubling up our supply channels, we can ensure uninterrupted delivery to Radial customers. During our tests, we can honestly say that all of the products we use meet our most rigorous standards. In fact, we have been producing custom transformers under the Radial name for over 10 years. We have merely opted to use the Eclipse brand to differentiate them from the electronic products we manufacture.

You can absolutely rest assured that any engineering changes will be scrutinized to the fullest to ensure the quality we deliver is second to none. And as JM noted, the quality of the Duplex with the new Eclipse transformer is extremely high. I can even say better than our most optimistic expectations.

Peter Janis
President and resident Gear Slut!

PS: As for Lundhal – Per is a great guy and he makes a nice product that is certainly in the same league as our top end transformers. We do not currently use Lundhal transformers in our designs, but certainly may do so in the future. Note: A transformer is only part of the circuit. The buffering and snubbers that surround the transformer to address issues such as ringing, noise and so on all play a role, as does the mechanical design. Critical to many is the durability: If the DI stops working half way through a show, it does not matter how much you paid for it. At the end of the day, it is all about balancing audio quality, performance and value.

Finally – we answer all emails – many of which come to me directly. We do not have the time to monitor all of the various web chat sites, but are certainly a fan of Gear Slutz. If you have a question, please make sure it is sent to [email protected] and we will do our very best to get back to you in short order.
Old 10th May 2013
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Joe_K's Avatar
Hi Peter, I've watched a lot of your whiteboard videos. Very informative and helped me pick out my Radial gear (including Tonebone/BigShot and Primacoustic stuff as well). Thank you for those and for making great products!

There seems to be a marketing lesson here. Building a device that uses the Jensen reputation, even silk-screening the name Jensen on the device and using it as a top marketing bullet (and I'm guessing the "J" in "JDI" doesn't stand for "Joe"), you've created a perception that changing to another transformer would be a downgrade, unfortunate as that is. I have to admit, I keep an eye out on good deals for a JDI Duplex (I have the mono version), and now I'm looking at every one to see if they are "Jensen". I wouldn't be worried about buying the Eclipse-based stuff at all, but I can see the irony there and the reverse effects of good marketing.

Will Jensen be phased out of the mono JDI as well?
Old 10th May 2013
  #24
Gear Nut
 

Hi Joe;

We plan to use Jensen Transformers for ever!

Peter
Old 10th May 2013
  #25
Gear Nut
 

And... J can stand for all kinds of things...

Joe
Jensen
Janis...

It is such as great letter!

Ask my dad!
Old 10th May 2013
  #26
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
can I have your dad's phone number?
Old 10th May 2013
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Joe_K's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonemeister View Post
And... J can stand for all kinds of things...

Joe
Jensen
Janis...

It is such as great letter!

Ask my dad!
Nice save.
Old 17th August 2013
  #28
Lives for gear
 
scrubs's Avatar
 

Just an update, the newest JDI single channels now say "Transformer Isolated" on them, too. I haven't cracked it open to see exactly what's in there, but it was purchased new from ZenPro a couple of months ago.
Old 17th August 2013
  #29
Lives for gear
 
scrubs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrubs View Post
Just an update, the newest JDI single channels now say "Transformer Isolated" on them, too. I haven't cracked it open to see exactly what's in there, but it was purchased new from ZenPro a couple of months ago.
And one more update: opened it up and mine has a Jensen in it, despite no mention of Jensen on the box itself.

Old 17th August 2013
  #30
Registered User
This is sad news to hear. Very disappointed - I have 4 older JDI boxes which I understand contain Jensen and I have been a loyal supporter of Radial for making such a high quality product. I hate to hear companies indulging in bait and switch tactics - I find that reprehensible.

JDI was always associated with Jensen, which is why we bought them. Radial has their cheaper "pro" range, and we all knew they were good but NOT Jensen.

Abusing an established brand name seems to be a game that accountants play - but it is VERY short sighted.

The Radial brand is now worthless in my eyes.
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