The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Excessive noise in Yamaha HS-50M monitors! Dynamics Plugins
Old 17th December 2012
  #1
Excessive noise in Yamaha HS-50M monitors!

So, I just bought a used pair of Yamaha HS-50D monitors last night, and I already love them. They're a huge step up from the entry-level Edirol turds I've been using for the past million years.

That said, I am getting a lot of noise from what I know should be nearly silent monitors. It sounds like radio interference (kind of like the sound a cell phone makes when interfering with a signal), but there is a little white noise in there as well.

The HS-50s do have balanced XLR inputs, but alas, I have no XLR outputs on my mixer. So I'm relegated to using the 1/4" input. Can anyone suggest the best cables to use in connecting my mixer to these monitors if my goal is noise reduction?

I also acknowledge that it might just be my crappy mixer.
Old 17th December 2012
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Amber's Avatar
 

I have the same issue but I haven't tried balanced cables 1/4 jack yet.
Old 17th December 2012
  #3
Here for the gear
 

Try putting a two prong adaptor on each of the three prong cords coming out of the monitors. I know it sounds weird, but it worked for me.
Old 18th December 2012
  #4
I posted this in the Low End Theory forum. I had the same issue. Bought a ground loop isolator from The Source for 15-20$, plugged that in and voilà. No more noise.
Old 19th December 2012
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by solarplexus311 View Post
I posted this in the Low End Theory forum. I had the same issue. Bought a ground loop isolator from The Source for 15-20$, plugged that in and voilà. No more noise.
Sounds awesome, just checked it out. I am seeing a lot of different options as far as input/outputs go though, can you explain what exactly you got? I've never used a ground loop isolator before, so I'm shooting in the dark. Also, does this take away from the audio signal at all?
Old 19th December 2012
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanbeat View Post
Sounds awesome, just checked it out. I am seeing a lot of different options as far as input/outputs go though, can you explain what exactly you got? I've never used a ground loop isolator before, so I'm shooting in the dark. Also, does this take away from the audio signal at all?
Search for ground loop isolator at Radioshack, they usually have some RCA plugs so you'll need adaptors. I didn't find that it took away from the signal. It's quiet now so even if it did a little, it's still better than the noise it had before.
Old 19th December 2012
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by solarplexus311 View Post
Search for ground loop isolator at Radioshack, they usually have some RCA plugs so you'll need adaptors. I didn't find that it took away from the signal. It's quiet now so even if it did a little, it's still better than the noise it had before.
I totally understand the trade-off, but using converters would probably make me super paranoid that I wasn't getting a clean signal. I think what I'll do is invest in some high end patch cables to go between my mixer and HS-50s, and if I'm still getting the interference, I'll take your route. Thanks much either way!
Old 19th December 2012
  #8
Lives for gear
 
LeeYoo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyRotten View Post
Try putting a two prong adaptor on each of the three prong cords coming out of the monitors. I know it sounds weird, but it worked for me.
Johnny, are you still alive?
Power ground is there for safety....
Sure, cutting the power ground could kill the groundloop, but it might also kill you.

OP, this sounds like a typical groundloop.
Does your mixer have balanced outputs. (Brand/model?)
If so, balanced TRS leads will likely fix the problem.
AFAIK, these speakers also take TRS jack plugs.
Or use TRS-XLR leads.
Leo..
Old 19th December 2012
  #9
Lives for gear
 

ADC makes a 'Surge Protector' with RF noise reduction.

I can NOT believe that it works .... but it does. [it was a xmas present from 5 years ago].
Just tried it out of frustration.

It DOES take 2 standard ac plugs, but gives you 6 sockets.

Running un-balanced to HS80M. [because I had BIG issues with MOGAMI QUAD cable running 15 ft lengths. Totally twisted the sound ... in a bad way. Had to go back to my standard cable.

The ADC improvement is dramatic.
Old 19th December 2012
  #10
Here for the gear
 

Johnny, are you still alive?


Ha, still here. How could that possibly kill someone?
Old 19th December 2012
  #11
Lives for gear
 
LeeYoo's Avatar
 

Surge protectors (MOVs) are used to kill high voltage power spikes. Surge protector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mains filters (a combination of coils and capacitors) are used to suppress mains RF noises.
One, or the other, or both, can be used in surge protector power strips.
They are almost always already part of a switchmode power supply.
This has NOTHING to do with GROUNDLOOPS.
Groundloops are made by yourself by using the wrong interconnect cables.
Leo..
Old 19th December 2012
  #12
Lives for gear
 
LeeYoo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyRotten View Post
Johnny, are you still alive?


Ha, still here. How could that possibly kill someone?
The mains ground wire is used to ground the outside metal of an appliance.
Think toaster, washing machine, but also the metal heatsink/XLR plug of a speakerbox.
In the case of a fault inside your speaker, e.g a blown mains filter capacitor, or a loose wire, mains voltage could come in contact with the metal casing.
This will make the whole outside and everything else connected to it live.
The ground wire will safely short this to ground.
Leo..
Old 19th December 2012
  #13
Lives for gear
 
LeeYoo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHollins View Post
Running un-balanced to HS80M. [because I had BIG issues with MOGAMI QUAD cable running 15 ft lengths. Totally twisted the sound ... in a bad way. Had to go back to my standard cable.
If your interface/mixer has balanced outputs, you should use NORMAL balanced TRS leads.
Only use Quad cables in certain "problem" situations.
Leo..
Old 19th December 2012
  #14
I tried TRS cables, XLR cables, surge protector power bars, separate outlets. Nothing worked except the ground loop isolator.
Old 19th December 2012
  #15
Lives for gear
 
LeeYoo's Avatar
 

Hi.
By grounloop isolator, do you mean audio transformers between the two devices. 1:1 transformers with RCA connectors.
This works to break the groundloop, but it also degrades the sound.
Ok for consumer audio, but not for high end monitoring.
Better to understand where/how the groundloop is created, and fix it there.
Post your exact setup if you want help.
Leo..
Attached Thumbnails
Excessive noise in Yamaha HS-50M monitors!-2700054l.jpg  
Old 20th December 2012
  #16
On one surge protecting powerbar I have the iMac and the monitors. On another power bar I have the Mackie MCU, API lunchbox, DBX160X, ISA one. I tried on another outlet, had same white noise.
Old 20th December 2012
  #17
Gear Head
 

Have a pair in another space w/ the sub. You need to plug them into a power conditioner. The noise is coming from your outlets and transmitted thru your speakers. Unless you have clean power your gunna have problems. You might not hear the dirty power on other speaker /devices but you will with the yamahas. Besides a decent power conditioner will clean up noise elsware in your studio. Just my experience since we first had them hooked up to a power strip conected to the outlet for test purpose's. We heard the hash and ran them tru the studio rack. Problem solved. Just my experience with them. Not bad speakers. Oh we keep computers, laptops and other non tracking powered devices seperate from our tracking gear. By seperated I mean different racks and power conditioners.

Last edited by SammyDD; 20th December 2012 at 02:21 AM.. Reason: seperation
Old 20th December 2012
  #18
So like a Furman power conditioner would do the trick?
Old 20th December 2012
  #19
Gear Head
 

I always hesitate telling people what to buy. I just offer what works for me. The power coming into your home or office has alot of noise from other devices connected all along the system. I'm not an expert on any of this and maybe someone who is can elaborate. However, I have always used a power conditioner when dealing with audio of any kind. Furman is good plus there are many others. If your guuna get serious about your sound then you should start with the power you use to run your studio items. Also computers and other like devices are noisey and we try and keep them out of the loop and as seperate as we can. Anything that throws off a signal is gunna effect something that has the ability to pick up frequencies. Again, I'm no expert but a power conditioner is a useful thing to have in the studio.
Old 20th December 2012
  #20
Lives for gear
Here's something free to try. And safe.

Plug everything into the same strip & into the same outlet. Monitors, mixer, computer, rack, everything. If any one thing is on a different circuit, there can be a difference in ground potential and all kinds of ugly can happen.

If that by itself doesn't fix it, try removing the mixer from the chain -- just plug your audio interface (or whatever) right into the speakers. Then add stuff back in one piece at a time until you find the culprit.

If that doesn't fix it, i don't know.. move? I've never used one of those isolators, even in my 100 year old house with its 40 year old wiring. just follow some simple rules, use decent interconnect cables, balanced wherever you can, and you won't have RF or 60hz problems. If your mixer has balanced outs, XLR to TRS will be the best thing to do. And yes, quad cables are a specialized thing, not really for this application.

If you *really* can't get it fixed, then you can probably at least mitigate it a bit with gain staging, i.e. turn your monitors down and turn your mixer up. Make sure your audio interface is set correctly for balanced/unbalanced too.

And don't defeat a safety ground. Terrible idea.

Good luck!
Old 20th December 2012
  #21
Lives for gear
 
LeeYoo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by solarplexus311 View Post
On one surge protecting powerbar I have the iMac and the monitors. On another power bar I have the Mackie MCU, API lunchbox, DBX160X, ISA one. I tried on another outlet, had same white noise.
Not clear what A/D D/A converter you're using.
Please explain the D/A > speaker input leads, including adapters etc that you are using now.

And again, power conditioners remove mains crap, but do NOTHING for a ground loop, unless they use transformers or some sort of groundlift.
"Power conditioner" means nothing to me, unless I know what's inside.

Leo..
Old 20th December 2012
  #22
Gear Head
 

So good luck with everything. Like I said We Have Them and Use Them in another setup. They had the noise your talking about but we Solved the Problem by pluging them into our studio rack which has a POWER CONDITIONER and is SEPERATE from the COMPUTER. This is your solution. Give it a try it worked for us.
Old 20th December 2012
  #23
I use an Apogee Duet 2. I'll try the power conditioner.
Old 20th December 2012
  #24
Lives for gear
 
LeeYoo's Avatar
 

Hi SammyDD
Not trying to argue with you.
Maybe your crap was not caused by a groundloop.
Or maybe your power conditioners use the proper technology.
I always like to understand what's causing the noises before I try to fix it.
That is not always easy in a bigger setup.
Leo..
Old 20th December 2012
  #25
Lives for gear
 
LeeYoo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by solarplexus311 View Post
I use an Apogee Duet 2. I'll try the power conditioner.
One more questions.
With the speakers connected with TRS-TRS lead, is the headphones output on the Duet 100% clean?
Leo..
Old 20th December 2012
  #26
Yes. Headphones are clean. I tried to connect the speakers with TRS and regular unbalanced cables. No good. And did the noise with the Tascam 1641 I had before.
Old 20th December 2012
  #27
Lives for gear
 
LeeYoo's Avatar
 

So you're sure the headphones are 100% clean, and you got hash on your monitors, even with balanced TRS-TRS leads to the speakers.
And you can fix this hash with inline transformers..
This is very uncommon.
I would try plugging the two monitors in a seperate powerstrip, and plug that into a ebtech hum-ex ground isolator.
http://www.ebtechaudio.com/humxdes.html
If you are on US power...
One last question. Is the hash also there (with balanced TRS-TRS monitor leads) if you unplug the XLR INPUT leads from the Duet?
So only Computer > Duet > Monitors (I assume the Duet is only USB bus powered).
Leo..

edit: If you have TRS-XLR cables between interface and monitors, you could try lifting the ground pin(1) wires inside the XLR plugs.
Old 20th December 2012
  #28
Yes, still there. I'll try the HumX too.
Old 21st December 2012
  #29
Lives for gear
 
LeeYoo's Avatar
 

Hi solarplexus311.
Please post your findings with the hum-ex.
First use it on the monitors (two! of them in a powerstrip).
If that doesn't work, use the hum-ex on the imac.
I assume here that nothing else is connected to the imac that could give groundloops, like a network cable.
Leo..
Old 21st December 2012
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeYoo View Post
Hi solarplexus311.
Please post your findings with the hum-ex.
First use it on the monitors (two! of them in a powerstrip).
If that doesn't work, use the hum-ex on the imac.
I assume here that nothing else is connected to the imac that could give groundloops, like a network cable.
Leo..
Will do.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
FiveDollarShake / Low End Theory
15
Randirainbow / So Much Gear, So Little Time
2

Forum Jump
Forum Jump