The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
M7 vs k47 capsule
Old 6th October 2012
  #1
Gear Addict
 

M7 vs k47 capsule

What are you alls thoughts on these two capsules?
Old 6th October 2012
  #2
Gear Addict
 

I want to use the u47 on vocals and guitar. So I wanted to know your thoughts on which capsule would be better and why. Thanks!!!
Old 6th October 2012
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
Rascal Audio's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenfields View Post
What are you alls thoughts on these two capsules?
I'm for 'em!!

Joel
Old 7th October 2012
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
Larry Villella's Avatar
The vintage mic experts who have deeper knowledge
can probably answer this better than I can. My own
anecdotal evidence leads me to believe the K-47 has
a little bit more presence and air. I know that my '54
U-47 sounds "Darker" to me than our own Custom 47,
which is why we came out with a Custom 49, for a
closer approximation of the late 40's/early 50's tone.

If this hypothesis is correct, then I'd prefer the K-47
on Acoustic Guitars, the M-7 on Horns and Cabs . . .

I think BOTH would work on various vocalists.
Old 7th October 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
The original M7 capsule has a PVC membrane, k47 uses mylar membrane. PVC does not age well...
Old 7th October 2012
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
Larry Villella's Avatar
Glued Vs. Screwed

Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
The original M7 capsule has a PVC membrane, k47 uses mylar membrane. PVC does not age well...
Good point!

And the M7 were originally glued, not screwed.
Old 9th October 2012
  #7
Lives for gear
 

i'm currently building a DIY ioaudio U47 clone. I'm trying to decide on m7 or k47, interested in opinions as well.

thanx
Old 9th October 2012
  #8
70% Coffee, 30% Beer
 
Doc Mixwell's Avatar
m7
Old 9th October 2012
  #9
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Villella View Post
And the M7 were originally glued, not screwed.
The M7 is still glued - if it's screwed, it's not an M7.

And the M7 is only made by Gefell in Germany - anything else is a copy.
Old 9th October 2012
  #10
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonycamp View Post
i'm currently building a DIY ioaudio U47 clone. I'm trying to decide on m7 or k47, interested in opinions as well.

thanx
You won't be able to get an M7 capsule - you will have to get a copy if you want an M7.
Old 9th October 2012
  #11
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
You won't be able to get an M7 capsule - you will have to get a copy if you want an M7.
Unless you buy an old RFT/Gefell Um70 head and rip it open......
Old 9th October 2012
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Yeah, or an old U47/M49 of course................
Old 9th October 2012
  #13
Gear Nut
 
hipaquarius's Avatar
 

Microphone Parts
has a "vintage" voiced k47 type capsule that they call the rk7. Curious......


Sent from my SGH-T959V using Gearslutz App
Old 10th October 2012
  #14
Lives for gear
 
illacov's Avatar
 

I own a pair of M49 influenced microphones. One of them features ADKs GK47 capsule and I actually had a chance to demo a NIB Neumann K47 element against it. The differences were dare I say minor? I mean extremely difficult to tell apart, you could totally punch out with one over the other and not hear the "shifts" associated with using different microphones to make a composite take work.

I thoroughly enjoy my M49 with ADKs K47 capsule and they are certainly worthy of consideration, not only because of their price point but also because they sound so friggin' good.

Peace
Illumination
Old 10th October 2012
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Vintageidiot's Avatar
The Thiersch M7, mylar capsule sounds wonderful. It is a copy, and used extensively in newly built mics on the market. I have one in my U47 clone.
Old 13th October 2012
  #16
Lives for gear
 

pvc vs mylar

Has anyone heard and can u explain the sonic difference between the Thiersch m7 red line and blue line?
Old 16th December 2012
  #17
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonycamp View Post
Has anyone heard and can u explain the sonic difference between the Thiersch m7 red line and blue line?
I think that might be very hard. They age differently.
Old 16th December 2012
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
I think that might be very hard. They age differently.
Then compare two new ones. It's easy.

As far as aging is concerned, Mylar is very stable. PVC tends to get brighter over the decades. Theirsch hasn't been making them long enough for you to be that concerned.
Old 16th December 2012
  #19
Lives for gear
 
dandeurloo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonycamp View Post
Has anyone heard and can u explain the sonic difference between the Thiersch m7 red line and blue line?
I have both. But not in the same mics. Once I build the second MK47 (waiting on the body) I will put the red line in it and compare. As of now the blue line I like better but its in a different mic so its no way apple's to apple's. I will say the Red Line did improve the mic I put it in. So I think both are great.
Old 16th December 2012
  #20
Lives for gear
 
illacov's Avatar
 

I also believe that the M7 is a smaller diameter than a K47 capsule. Circa say 32mm for the M7 platform VS 34 for the K47.

In my experience the larger diameter does lead me to believe that the K47 should offer more bottom end.

Peace
Illumination
Old 16th December 2012
  #21
Lives for gear
 
kidvybes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenfields View Post
I want to use the u47 on vocals and guitar. So I wanted to know your thoughts on which capsule would be better and why. Thanks!!!
...there's always the 3rd option, Ben Sneesby's K7 (a hybrid between the classic K47 and M7)...Klaus Heyne seemed to like it:

Test: Ben Sneesby's K47-Type Capsules by Klaus Heyne
Old 16th December 2012
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Klaus's Avatar
 

Regarding the difference between polyester (Mylar®, PE) and PVC membranes in M7-size and style capsules:

To a trained ear, they do sound remarkably different, and should be auditioned by a potential buyer before a decision is made.

Additionally: current-generation PVC membranes should not be compared sonically to PVC material from a decade ago: Germany outlawed the previous PVC formulae, for environmental and health reasons (harmful during manufacturing, not after curing). Different formulae set up and dry differently and the differences in molecular structure of the materials (my guess) also change the membane's dynamic behavior.

Healthy PVC M7 capsules are not per se brighter than Mylar K47 models, though they differ in response in other ways: K47 are softer, less aggressive in the mids. However, with aging, PVC dries up, and, as the capsule's low end goes, one is left with the impression of increased brightness.
Old 17th December 2012
  #23
Lives for gear
 
illacov's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidvybes View Post
...there's always the 3rd option, Ben Sneesby's K7 (a hybrid between the classic K47 and M7)...Klaus Heyne seemed to like it:

Test: Ben Sneesby's K47-Type Capsules by Klaus Heyne
Soon enough there will be another option but I'll let that cat out of the bag when its time


MUHUHWUAH HUAH!

Peace
Illumination
Old 17th December 2012
  #24
Lives for gear
 
dandeurloo's Avatar
Out of the number of M7 type capsule I have tried I think the K7 is the one I still want to get into one of my mics and do a comparison with. I have a few of Ben's capsules and he does great work. I bet it is very very nice. Maybe some day.
Old 17th December 2012
  #25
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus View Post
Regarding the difference between polyester (Mylar®, PE) and PVC membranes in M7-size and style capsules:

To a trained ear, they do sound remarkably different, and should be auditioned by a potential buyer before a decision is made.

Additionally: current-generation PVC membranes should not be compared sonically to PVC material from a decade ago: Germany outlawed the previous PVC formulae, for environmental and health reasons (harmful during manufacturing, not after curing). Different formulae set up and dry differently and the differences in molecular structure of the materials (my guess) also change the membane's dynamic behavior.

Healthy PVC M7 capsules are not per se brighter than Mylar K47 models, though they differ in response in other ways: K47 are softer, less aggressive in the mids. However, with aging, PVC dries up, and, as the capsule's low end goes, one is left with the impression of increased brightness.
Hi Klaus, some interesting background info since I'm currently considering buying a Gefell umt70/71 (which uses an M7 capsule). I'm assuming the umt70 is one of the current generation PVC capsules? are you implying the new material is sonically better or worse?

Are there any recording comparisons between these different materials/capsules? (Though i imagine it might not be particulary valid to compare a decade old capsule with a new capsule given that the 'age' of the stretched material might be causing more sonic differences, than the actual formula of the PVC).
Cheers
Old 17th December 2012
  #26
Lives for gear
 
The Phoenix's Avatar
Which capsule did the vintage U47's come with? Was it the M7 or K47 or both depending on year of manufacture?
Old 18th December 2012
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Klaus's Avatar
 

All original Neumann U47 came with M7 PVC until ca. 1958 (some stragglers were still installed as late as 1961), after that year, almost all U47/48 came with the first generation K47/49 identified by a brass diaphragm ring.

Regarding which MG mics came with which era M7 PVC: you will need to check the year of manufacture, especially with those models introduced prior to 2005 that are still in production today. Things got tight around the bass on MG's M7 PVC capsules around 2005.

In all cases, let your ears tell you whether the mic sounds frequency balanced of hard in the mids.
Old 18th December 2012
  #28
Lives for gear
 
The Phoenix's Avatar
Thank You Klaus!
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 98 views: 40215
Avatar for nst7
nst7 14th February 2014
replies: 12 views: 7185
Avatar for andychamp
andychamp 29th June 2010
replies: 343 views: 172796
Avatar for kaleida
kaleida 21st March 2020
replies: 2704 views: 392941
Avatar for Diogo C
Diogo C 30th October 2015
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
🖨️ Show Printable Version
✉️ Email this Page
🔍 Search thread
🎙️ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump