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Poor man's SSL
Old 22nd August 2012
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
AgustinZubillaga's Avatar
 

Poor man's SSL

SSL Nucleus + Slate VCC 4k + Duende native (or Waves SSL bundle). Whadda ya think?


...in all seriousness, there is no doubt in my mind that someday software emulations will sound 99,9% identical to their hardware counterparts (yes, including summing and tape). Let's face it, it's just a matter of time.

Just think about it... New (albeit small) SSL console, no recapping, no repair guy on speed dial, no awkward SSL automation, instant recall, SSL faders and knobs, jog wheel, transport, etc... for less than $6k

Thoughts?




Ah yes, I forgot to mention: I own the SSL Nucleus, and it's worth every penny of the $5.149 price tag
Old 22nd August 2012
  #2
Deleted 7f9cade
Guest
thats not a bad gear set up. cool. If I were doing the same thing. I would get an X-rack summing set up with the master bus compressor with the nucleus and SSL plugins.
Old 22nd August 2012
  #3
my crystal ball is currently serviced by Gandalf.

really, most jobs could be replaced by machines one day. the mixing desk is a tool. as any other tool, there are changes to it (some call it developmenzlt).

the good thing: we are living already in a nucleus audio age, where people cant hear the difference between a plugin and real hw and call it "they sound the same because I can not hear the difference". this happens right now.

beeing part of product development, I see no reason why a digital world must/should sound the same as their analog counterpart.

one thing to remember: humans are analog. we have analog hands/arms/legs to interact with the world. what everyone is trying is to enhance us with digital tools (in the audio world it's called plugins, interfaces, daws ...) to achive a result faster and easier then with analog tools (tape machines, analog mixers...). the result will never be better then the real thing. it will be different at least.

still you are using analog faders and enjoy it over a miuse and virtual faders on a screen(you could buy an ipad and remote control everything at a much lower price point).

the conclusion for me: I like analog tools (in audio and other situation in life) but I go with the flow to be competitive.

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Old 22nd August 2012
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
AgustinZubillaga's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 7f9cade View Post
thats not a bad gear set up. cool. If I were doing the same thing. I would get an X-rack summing set up with the master bus compressor with the nucleus and SSL plugins.
That would be sweeeet , but, again, price, convenience, etc... is it going to be worth it (sonically) in a few years? i personally don't think so.
Old 22nd August 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
 
ryst's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AgustinZubillaga View Post
...in all seriousness, there is no doubt in my mind that someday software emulations will sound 99,9% identical to their hardware counterparts (yes, including summing and tape). Let's face it, it's just a matter of time.

Thoughts?
I don't think it matters. What matters to me is a great final product. And that's achievable through a computer or console or both.

Also, it's nearly impossible to accurately judge weather software emulations sound 100% identical to their hardware counterparts. There are far too many variables. So my question is, who cares?
Old 22nd August 2012
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryst View Post
I don't think it matters. What matters to me is a great final product. And that's achievable through a computer or console or both.

Also, it's nearly impossible to accurately judge weather software emulations sound 100% identical to their hardware counterparts. There are far too many variables. So my question is, who cares?
faith no more cares!


http://www.purelyrics.com/index.php?lyrics=qrjoexof
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Old 22nd August 2012
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
Faith no more cares!
And they Care A LOT !!!
Old 22nd August 2012
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
AgustinZubillaga's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryst View Post
I don't think it matters. What matters to me is a great final product. And that's achievable through a computer or console or both.

Also, it's nearly impossible to accurately judge weather software emulations sound 100% identical to their hardware counterparts. There are far too many variables. So my question is, who cares?
I care, in the sense that if I can have a $60k SSL console for under $6k, I'm gonna be really happy.
Old 22nd August 2012
  #9
Lives for gear
 
AnthonyRochester's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AgustinZubillaga View Post
I care, in the sense that if I can have a $60k SSL console for under $6k, I'm gonna be really happy.
But you wouldn't actually have a $60k SSL console. You'd have great tools that you can use to get a result that you're happy with, but its not the same thing, even if it did sound the same.
Old 22nd August 2012
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
AgustinZubillaga's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyRochester View Post
But you wouldn't actually have a $60k SSL console. You'd have great tools that you can use to get a result that you're happy with, but its not the same thing, even if it did sound the same.
Ok, I get what you're saying, but to me, if they sound the same and have the same set of features (with obvious size diferences) they are, for all practical purposes, the same.
Old 22nd August 2012
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgustinZubillaga View Post
Ok, I get what you're saying, but to me, if they sound the same and have the same set of features (with obvious size diferences) they are, for all practical purposes, the same.
they do not sound the same...

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Old 22nd August 2012
  #12
Lives for gear
If you care about sound quality, stay away from 4k.
Old 22nd August 2012
  #13
Lives for gear
 
andreaeffe's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgustinZubillaga View Post
I care, in the sense that if I can have a $60k SSL console for under $6k, I'm gonna be really happy.



U can't.

Period & fullstop.
This calculation is pointless.

Just like U can have a life sized poster photo or even a hologram of e.g. Pamela Anderson and some virtual-cyber-sex software, gloves, helmet, whatnot to, for all practical purposes, enjoy what Borat would call "seksiiii tiiime" with her - but in real life U probably can't ever shake hands with her, let alone share a drink, let alone a bed & the aforementioned activities.

Of course your recordings/mixes can & may sound good.
But that's true even if U were using a walkman, a Tascam cassette portastudio, an Adat, a Studer 2" tape machine, a DAW, an SSL 4000 or 9000J or any recording gear in the world - if it suits the project, and if U know what U're doing.



A
F
Old 22nd August 2012
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by AgustinZubillaga View Post
I care, in the sense that if I can have a $60k SSL console for under $6k, I'm gonna be really happy.
You will end up upset, if you let SSL's marketing tactics, send you chasing after impossibilities
Old 22nd August 2012
  #15
Gear Head
 
Rune Rask's Avatar
Console emulating plugs, are made with digital distortion and noise.

I myself like to grit things a bit up, thats why i got myself a SSL 4032, it was not disproportionate expensive to buy, I paid about 27k for the console, most people from western industrialized countries are capable of raising that kind of money sometime in their lifetime.
You may have to do without a car, your annual trip for ibiza or even worse 5000 pints of beer at the local bar

I also use a daw with plugins before I hit the console, but to compare modeling plugins and a real analog console seems with all respect a little unknown and sonic untrained.
It's like comparing a digital piano with a steinway grand piano, or a drummer with a rythmebox.

it is not the same.

dont get me wrong, i love my daw, but think my daw loves my console even more
Old 22nd August 2012
  #16
Lives for gear
 
nickelironsteel's Avatar
 

thats actually a good comparison. console emulations are like a m-audio triggerfinger, where an ssl is like an entire live drumset.
Old 22nd August 2012
  #17
Lives for gear
yeah, i guess.

your right that its about distortion. ive been tracking with a tape machine and its really helped working ITB...Im using less and less outboard. I had a rack next to me full of api, neve, UA, manley...Ive sold a lot of it because I wasnt using it...and Ive got a paypal account full of money and Im scratching my head thinking about what to buy.

But yeah....its all about harmonic distortion.
Old 22nd August 2012
  #18
Lives for gear
 

I just dropped cash on a nucleus as well. I have only had it a few days but I do think that for me it's worth it.. I paid about 4400 for it.. I have tried a couple other supposed controllers ie m audio novation and this Is ten times better. Plus I can use the pres in it.

It's a steep learning curve but I think I can drop the mouse in bout 90 % of cases given some time setting it up

But it's not a console. I do find that already I am mixing more with my ears and not my eyes.. I like the duende channel strip very much. I have VCC and the UAD ssl strip also so figuring out how I like to work.

It's a lot of cash for sure but to me the faders ,knobs, jog wheel that really work, presa button load your plug in , all the time is awesome.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AgustinZubillaga View Post
SSL Nucleus + Slate VCC 4k + Duende native (or Waves SSL bundle). Whadda ya think?


...in all seriousness, there is no doubt in my mind that someday software emulations will sound 99,9% identical to their hardware counterparts (yes, including summing and tape). Let's face it, it's just a matter of time.

Just think about it... New (albeit small) SSL console, no recapping, no repair guy on speed dial, no awkward SSL automation, instant recall, SSL faders and knobs, jog wheel, transport, etc... for less than $6k

Thoughts?




Ah yes, I forgot to mention: I own the SSL Nucleus, and it's worth every penny of the $5.149 price tag
Old 22nd August 2012
  #19
Lives for gear
 
cinealta's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AgustinZubillaga View Post
SSL Nucleus + Slate VCC 4k + Duende native (or Waves SSL bundle).
Nothing in that list, except for the two SSL preamps in Nucleus, will *sound* remotely like an SSL console. This is a poor man's SSL (comes in less than an AWS but more than a used 4K):

SSL X-Desk
SSL X-Panda
SSL X-Rack EQ module
SSL X-Rack Dynamics module
SSL X-Rack Stereo Buss Compressor
SSL X-Rack Master Buss module
+/- SSL Nucleus
Old 22nd August 2012
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
AgustinZubillaga's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
they do not sound the same...

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Not yet anyway...
Old 22nd August 2012
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
AgustinZubillaga's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetam View Post
If you care about sound quality, stay away from 4k.
you mean VCC 4k or an actual 4k SSL console?
Old 22nd August 2012
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
AgustinZubillaga's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rune Rask View Post
Console emulating plugs, are made with digital distortion and noise.

I myself like to grit things a bit up, thats why i got myself a SSL 4032, it was not disproportionate expensive to buy, I paid about 27k for the console, most people from western industrialized countries are capable of raising that kind of money sometime in their lifetime.
You may have to do without a car, your annual trip for ibiza or even worse 5000 pints of beer at the local bar

I also use a daw with plugins before I hit the console, but to compare modeling plugins and a real analog console seems with all respect a little unknown and sonic untrained.
It's like comparing a digital piano with a steinway grand piano, or a drummer with a rythmebox.

it is not the same.

dont get me wrong, i love my daw, but think my daw loves my console even more
I never said they sound the same now, but are you really brave enough to assert that they will never ever ever sound the same? not even 100 years from now? c'mon...
Old 22nd August 2012
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
AgustinZubillaga's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
Nothing in that list, except for the two SSL preamps in Nucleus, will *sound* remotely like an SSL console. This is a poor man's SSL (comes in less than an AWS but more than a used 4K):

SSL X-Desk
SSL X-Panda
SSL X-Rack EQ module
SSL X-Rack Dynamics module
SSL X-Rack Stereo Buss Compressor
SSL X-Rack Master Buss module
+/- SSL Nucleus
No, That's not a poor man's SSL, thats just a regular SSL.
Old 22nd August 2012
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
AgustinZubillaga's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoggin View Post
I just dropped cash on a nucleus as well. I have only had it a few days but I do think that for me it's worth it.. I paid about 4400 for it.. I have tried a couple other supposed controllers ie m audio novation and this Is ten times better. Plus I can use the pres in it.

It's a steep learning curve but I think I can drop the mouse in bout 90 % of cases given some time setting it up

But it's not a console. I do find that already I am mixing more with my ears and not my eyes.. I like the duende channel strip very much. I have VCC and the UAD ssl strip also so figuring out how I like to work.

It's a lot of cash for sure but to me the faders ,knobs, jog wheel that really work, presa button load your plug in , all the time is awesome.
No, it's not. For $5k I don't expect it to be. But if I can get close to the sound and workflow of a real console, for a lot less cash, I'll take it.
Old 22nd August 2012
  #25
Lives for gear
DBX 163x with all of Jim Williams' mods.

Seriously.
Old 22nd August 2012
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
AgustinZubillaga's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andreaeffe View Post


U can't.

Period & fullstop.
This calculation is pointless.

Just like U can have a life sized poster photo or even a hologram of e.g. Pamela Anderson and some virtual-cyber-sex software, gloves, helmet, whatnot to, for all practical purposes, enjoy what Borat would call "seksiiii tiiime" with her - but in real life U probably can't ever shake hands with her, let alone share a drink, let alone a bed & the aforementioned activities.

Of course your recordings/mixes can & may sound good.
But that's true even if U were using a walkman, a Tascam cassette portastudio, an Adat, a Studer 2" tape machine, a DAW, an SSL 4000 or 9000J or any recording gear in the world - if it suits the project, and if U know what U're doing.




A
F
Lol at the Pamela example

You're right, I've been mixing ITB with a mouse and I've been pretty happy with the results. Now with the nucleus, my workflow has improved dramatically. Does it sound better? no. Does it feel better? hell yea. I know it's not the tools, it's what you do with them, but this site's called Gearslutz after all heh
Old 22nd August 2012
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
AgustinZubillaga's Avatar
 

BTW guys, you're taking this thread way too seriously. I thought I'd made the tongue-in-cheek tone clear in the original post? if not, here's a disclaimer: I'm happy with my Nucleus and mixing ITB. I don't, nor will I ever, own an SSL console...






ya happy now? you made me cry...
Old 23rd August 2012
  #28
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AgustinZubillaga View Post
BTW guys, you're taking this thread way too seriously. I thought I'd made the tongue-in-cheek tone clear in the original post? if not, here's a disclaimer: I'm happy with my Nucleus and mixing ITB. I don't, nor will I ever, own an SSL console...






ya happy now? you made me cry...
heh
Old 23rd August 2012
  #29
In my opinion the Nucleus is way over priced for what it does. I would go with a ULN8 (if you want nice pre's) or the much cheaper LIO8 plus something like a Mackie control desk for the faders. As for the Slate stuff, I demoed it, didn't think an overly great deal of it, I have the duende native stuff use it all the time - IMO that's all you need to get the console sound (in a poor mans way) in the box - they modeled the drive / input stage, the filters are great, everything about it is great and you get two eq's the C200 plus the E type. Bus comp is great. With the C200 emulation allegedly the code was taken right out of the C200 so it's not really an emulation as much as a software version. Then if you got something like the LIO8 use their character plug in and onboard mixing. That, in my opinion would be much better spent money. But, to each his own, I must confess I haven't heard the Nucleus in action.
Old 24th August 2012
  #30
Solid State Logic
 
Jim@SSL's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
You will end up upset, if you let SSL's marketing tactics, send you chasing after impossibilities
I'd say this was somewhat unfair. SSL has never suggested such a thing. Nucleus has been designed for the hardocre ITB user, and we've never said that it gives you what a console does. What we have said is that working with Nucleus can make your DAW "feel" more like a console due to tactile interaction.


The OP seems to be saying is "This list of kit gets me close enough to what I believe works for me sonically". This list of kit may not get other users close enough to what works for them sonically. Posts in this thread prove this.


If it were me I would add some analogue summing to the setup if the goal was to "sound as colse to a console as possible". VCC does do some interesting things but to my ears doesn't do what my analogue console does - and this is not just about sonics it is also about workflow.
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