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Guitars on last TOOL album "10000 Days" : Rivera ?
Old 14th June 2006
  #1
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Guitars on last TOOL album "10000 Days" : Rivera ?

Hi,

I've seen the following on the rivera website (http://www.rivera.com) :

"Adam Jones of TOOL used a Mick Thomson voiced Knucklehead Rev with EL-34's all over the upcoming Tool record."

I've never tried a rivera, but the sound of the samples i've heard from rivera amps has verry little to do with the guitar sound on 10000 days.

Someone has infos on the guitar recording of 10000 days ?
Old 14th June 2006
  #2
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ben_allison's Avatar
The clips suck.

I had a Rivera M-100 for a bit, and it could get close (less gain than the Knucklehead, and more like a modded JCM 800). The Knucklehead is on par with an Uberschall or Triple Rec, etc, in terms of gain.

And don't forget the role of the player. Two guitarists could play the same rig and sound infinitely different.
Old 14th June 2006
  #3
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Bat Head Sound's Avatar
 

Well, wait and see what Joe Barresi has to say....
Old 14th June 2006
  #4
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I don't know about 10000 days, but on the previous album the gtr sound was made up of 4 amps and a lot of eq...you could throw anything in the and it would still sound like the "tool" gtr sound.
-brian
Old 14th June 2006
  #5
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AlexLakis's Avatar
 

Don't forget to clip them during mastering (or mixing?...there was another thread about this...) That'll get you that "10,000 Days" solo sound...
Old 14th June 2006
  #6
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audiomichael's Avatar
 

This is the first I've heard of him using the Rivera. I kept hearing that it was mostly a Diezel amp.
Old 14th June 2006
  #7
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Rivera amps

I have owned a Rivera R55 for about 10 years now. It is pretty much a Knucklehead in a 1x12 combo form.

Anyway, it is a hot-rodded Marshall sound on the gain channel. Pretty hi-gain if you want, and the other channel has a very Fenderish clean. The EL34 powertubes make it more crunchy than most Fenders though.

I find the amp incredibly versatile. The EQ's are very active and allow a lot of tone scuplting. The clean channel also has a mid shift that makes the amp SUPER spanky. The gain channel has a good classic rock tone and when you hit the boost, it goes into a modern hi gain sound. As with the clean channels, the eq's are very active.

They record well and really cut through a mix live. I have had compliments everytime I play the amp live with new people. They are awesome for raunchy slide guitar a la Ian Thornley of Big Wreck/Thornley

A lot of studio session players tend to have Rivera's in their arsenal because of the above. Very underestimated amps.
Old 14th June 2006
  #8
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ben_allison's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomichael
This is the first I've heard of him using the Rivera. I kept hearing that it was mostly a Diezel amp.
That and an old Marshall bass amp head (which he keeps in the fridge to preserve the components).

A little Mesa Triple Rectifier, in the studio, only I think.

I sold my Rivera because it only got me 75% of the way there -- cleans were good...75% of what I wanted. Gain was good....75% oh what I wanted. I found it to be a jack of all trades, master of none.

I've never heard a better clean that from my Dr Z Z28. But for that kind of modern gain, I'd look at a JCM 800 with a decent pedal infront of it (like a Keeley modded Metal Zone or even a TS9).

Tool is actually not that heavy, meaning that the gain is backed off quite a bit. A lot of the "heaviness" is from the groove and the synergy of bass to guitar (as compared to someone like In Flames or Lamb of God, where there is considerably more gain being thrown around).
Old 14th June 2006
  #9
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I was in the studio for this record, met Adam. I've seen his rig but how would you get his sound? The rig set up would be the thing.... And then there is Joe B, the "Master of Tone" with 10,000 audio tricks, no one does it like he does. Would Adam's rig sound like it does on 10,000 days under any other hand? Then there is the studio it was tracked in, the studio it was mixed in, sheesh! It goes on and on.

Brad
Old 15th June 2006
  #10
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blackcom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by madhermit
I have owned a Rivera R55 for about 10 years now. It is pretty much a Knucklehead in a 1x12 combo form.

Anyway, it is a hot-rodded Marshall sound on the gain channel. Pretty hi-gain if you want, and the other channel has a very Fenderish clean. The EL34 powertubes make it more crunchy than most Fenders though.

I find the amp incredibly versatile. The EQ's are very active and allow a lot of tone scuplting. The clean channel also has a mid shift that makes the amp SUPER spanky. The gain channel has a good classic rock tone and when you hit the boost, it goes into a modern hi gain sound. As with the clean channels, the eq's are very active.

They record well and really cut through a mix live. I have had compliments everytime I play the amp live with new people. They are awesome for raunchy slide guitar a la Ian Thornley of Big Wreck/Thornley

A lot of studio session players tend to have Rivera's in their arsenal because of the above. Very underestimated amps.

Does EL34 provide less low end then 6L6?
Old 15th June 2006
  #11
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EL34 vs 6l6

I find EL34's have a tighter bottom end and more crunch to them, and 6L6's have a rounder bottom with higher highs. In terms of "more", I would say 6l6's have more bass, but less defined.

In VERY broad terms, think Marshall when you think of EL34's. Think Fender when you think 6L6.

I also have a Mesa F-100 head which has 6L6 power tubes. It defintely has more bottom end in it. I have A/B'd the F-100 with my Rivera and there is not a huge difference between them. The Rivera is crunchier, but the Boogi is smoother. I am curious to hear what the Rivera sounds like with 6L6's running in it after a re-bias.
Old 15th June 2006
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Lunde
I was in the studio for this record, met Adam.
can you give anything away about the gear and techniques used? i'd be VERY interested to know which drum mics were used the most often, which pres and compressors.

simon
Old 27th June 2006
  #13
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I just picked up a Rivera Knucklehead K-Tre, a head used and designed with the help of Joe Barresi. This amp is it boys. It's a secret weapon. Sounds amazing with as much gain you would or wouldn't want. I love this thing. It sits on top of a Bogner 4X12 with V30's in it.
Old 27th June 2006
  #14
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Yup...

The secret to that "tool" sound is definitely far LESS gain than you might think sounds good with a guitar on it's own. It's the layering, the production, and most denitely the "groove" in relation to the kick/ toms/ bass. And it's the mids.
Old 27th June 2006
  #15
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Adam Jones uses a custom made Diezel VH4 -> take a look -> http://www.diezelamplification.com/html/news.htm

But I´m not sure if it`s the sound of the record...
Old 27th June 2006
  #16
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Yeah, he probably used all of them in the studio for options. According to the newest Guitar Player magazine with a full feature interview with Adam, he discusses using Bogner, Diezel, and even a some strange esoteric Peavey that Joe Barresi calls his "Mississippi Marshall". He says that after hooking up wtih Joe he doesn't know what amps he likes anymore haha. I just know that the Rivera is sweet. I'm sure mixed with all those other amps, it's why that albums tones are so rediculous. Great stuff.
Old 27th June 2006
  #17
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You are all right! He uses Rivera, Diesel, and Mesa Boogie all at the same time. And maybe Bogner too, I can't remember...
Old 4th November 2006
  #18
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The Making of Tool's "10,000 Days"

Engineer Joe Barresi and mastering engineer Bob Ludwig discuss the making of Tool’s 2006 album “10,000 Days”

Tool is a dynamic band: intricate and intense, brutal and subtle. Each album is an aural adventure full of high-caliber musicianship, sick humor and sonic surprises. They create hard-edged, surreal portraits with driving polyrhythmic drums, deep churning basslines, dense guitar textures and passionate-bordering-on-deranged vocals interwoven with interesting sounds and effects. Obviously, they're doing something right; the band has never been bigger.

The Tool lineup, from left: Maynard James Keenan, Adam Jones, Justin Chancellor and Danny Carey

Mix caught up with recording engineer/mixer Joe Barresi and mastering engineer Bob Ludwig to discuss the making of Tool's latest album, 10,000 Days. Barresi has an extensive track record of working with hard-rock bands such as Queens of the Stone Age, Kyuss and The Melvins. Ludwig is the man with the golden ears who has mastered countless albums in every style. Both engineers relished the opportunity to work with Tool.

“I'd always been a fan,” Barresi says of the band. “And I had always wanted to work on their records just 'cause I thought it'd be an interesting combination — what I do and what they do. What really sticks out is their amazing musicianship. They are just ridiculous.”

After recording two albums with engineer David Bottrill (Aenima and Lateralus), Tool wanted to change things a bit. Melvins frontman Buzz Osborne, who is good friends with Tool guitarist Adam Jones, recommended Barresi for the gig. The band appreciated Barresi's work on The Melvins' records, noting his willingness to experiment with sound and recording techniques. Barresi describes the overall sound of 10,000 Days as “Undertow [the band's 1993 debut album] on steroids.” To re-create the vibe of that album, the band returned to Grandmaster Recorders in Hollywood to track guitars, bass and vocals on the vintage 24-input Neve 8028 console. Drums were tracked on the API console at O'Henry Studios in Burbank, Calif.

“Part of the reason I chose Grandmaster was because they recorded Undertow [with engineer Sylvia Massy Shivy] there,” Barresi explains. “They were familiar with the studio; I've worked there. I just figured being there would bring back the sentiment of Undertow. They had tracked almost all of their records on Neve consoles, which I totally love. But Danny [Carey] wanted to do something different with his drums this time. He wanted to track on an API. He and I looked around town, and we settled on O'Henry. That's where we spent a couple weeks tracking drums.”

Barresi tracked Carey's extensive drum kit at the now-defunct O'Henry using the studio's massive API console (more than 16 feet long!), which has 88 inputs fitted with enhanced API modules and traditional API-style 2520 amps. Barresi explains how he captured Carey's kit: “I used a lot of close miking since he has such a large kit. I used three overheads: left, center and right. Then I filled in the other cymbals with spot microphones. The toms were all miked top and bottom. Kick and snare, pretty normal stuff. I had a couple of different stages of room mics: fairly close, middle of the room and then very distant. It was the kind of room where you could use the distant mics fairly loud without getting too much delay. What a beautiful-sounding studio!”

The album is loaded with electronic and acoustic percussion, all played live by Carey. “When I first showed up to their rehearsal,” Barresi explains. “I thought there were eight guys inside playing. I was like, ‘Who's playing percussion in there?’ And it turns out that it's all Dan. He has Mandala electronic pads that his friend Vince De Franco designed for him. He plays the Mandala pads, and they trigger sounds that he has sampled himself. It sounds like he has eight limbs.”

Barresi captured Justin Chancellor's bass tracks with a combination of cabinet miking and DI. Chancellor played through Gallien-Krueger heads and Mesa Boogie cabinets. One amp was set to a clean tone and the other had a dirty sound. They were separated trackwise, so they could be blended at any point later. Barresi used Neumann U47 FET microphones on both cabinets. Additionally, Chancellor's bass went through a Demeter DI box directly to the console.

Barresi explains guitarist Adam Jones' recording setup: “Adam mainly runs three amps: He has a Marshall that he loves, a Diezel and then he was using a Mesa Boogie at one point. I brought in a Bogner Uberschall head and a Rivera Knucklehead Reverb, and several other things. Then we just experimented with combinations of heads and cabinets until it worked for the song. Most of the 4×12s were Mesa Boogie cabinets, which are superior for their low end, except for the Marshall head, which went through a Marshall cabinet, and the Rivera went through a Rivera cabinet. I usually used stock miking. For me, that's a Shure SM57 and a Sennheiser 421 on every cabinet. The third mic could be anything that I felt the sound needed more of.”

The signal chain for tracking guitar was a bit complex. “Adam would play into whatever pedals he needed,” Barresi says. “That signal then went into a Systematic Systems Splitter. Then it would go to between three and five heads. The signal from the heads went to their own individual cabinets. Each cabinet had two or three microphones on it. Then all the microphones came back to the console, and they were blended down as separated for each amp. The Diezel amp went to its own track. The Marshall amp went to its own track. The third track was a blend of the Bogner and the Rivera, or whatever I liked for the song. And that would be one take — three tracks of guitar.”

On the song “Jambi,” Jones plays a solo that's reminiscent of Joe Walsh on “Rocky Mountain Way.” Barresi tells how they went to the source to make sure they got it right: “Adam would always reference The Eagles and Joe Walsh for the sound of the Talkbox,” he says. “Bob Heil, who invented the Talkbox, came down when we did the Talkbox stuff. Bob actually has a line of mics that he's been working on, and we ended up using one of his mics on the guitars, as well. It's called the PR-30, and it's a great mic! Joe Walsh actually called to give us some insight on how to record the Talkbox.”

Singer Maynard James Keenan has the ability to go from soft whispers to lung-busting screams. Keenan's favorite microphone is a Soundelux tube condenser that's no longer manufactured. “His main vocal mic was that Soundelux,” Barresi says. “Then there was some extra double-miking, and we'd use some other things for that. If I was gonna distort Maynard's vocal, I would have him sing into his main mic and a highly distorted SM57 at the same time — a tape-them-together kind of deal — and then run them in a parallel chain so I could separate them and track them to two tracks. Then I could add any kind of gain that I wanted by bringing up the 57.”

Barresi brought several of his favorite pieces of gear to the Tool sessions, including an Echoplex analog delay, a Hiwatt custom tape echo unit and many WEM Copycat echo units. He's especially fond of his Helios channel strip, which he used to track Keenan's distorted vocals. There were other interesting custom-made pieces of gear used on the sessions, such as the “pipe bomb microphone.”

“There's a guy named Rob Timmons at B-Band,” Barresi explains. “He makes transducers. Maynard was using a megaphone for some filtered vocal sounds, so I asked Rob to build me a few interesting mics to capture this. He made this thing called the ‘pipe bomb mic.’ It was a guitar pickup mounted to a piece of copper tubing, and it looked like a pipe bomb. I was using that inside of Maynard's megaphone.”

Barresi used minimal processing when recording. “I tried to get by with as little as possible,” he says. “There was no EQ on guitar. There was really no EQ on the bass either. I EQ'd a little bit on the vocal. But if there was an effect on the vocal, then it would be drastic EQ'ing. I used a slight bit of EQ on drums, but I mainly got the drum sound by changing mics out: Like if I needed a little top end, I'd find a brighter mic. If I needed more bottom, I'd try a bigger diaphragm mic.”

Barresi recorded all tracks onto the Studer A827 tape machines at both O'Henry and Grandmaster. He used 2-inch Ampex GP9 tape at 30 ips. When he was happy with the tracks, he would transfer them into Pro Tools. “I call it the ‘holding pen’ 'cause all the tracks are in there,” he says. “Everything went to tape and then it got dumped into Pro Tools to preserve it.”

When it came time to mix, Barresi chose Bay 7 (featured in “L.A. Grapevine,” p. 124) and its SSL G+ console in Valley Village, Calif. Barresi mixed the songs on his own for a while, and then he would also work with each individual musician until everyone was happy with the mixes. They listened to mixes on a variety of monitors at Bay 7, including KRKs, NHTs, Yamaha NS-10s and Realistic speakers.

Once everyone was satisfied with the mixes, they flew to Portland, Maine, to master the project at Bob Ludwig's Gateway Mastering facility. Ludwig used the Pyramix Virtual Studio DAW and a state-of-the-art Sound Performance Laboratory analog console. Ludwig, Barresi and the band listened through 800-pound Eggleston Works Ivy Speakers that are actually seated down to bedrock. Ludwig also used George Massenburg and Manley EQs on the project.

Even though Ludwig has mastered countless projects, he gets excited about Tool albums. “They're a great combination of heaviness and yet huge dynamic range,” he says. “They're one band that came in, and I think Danny said, ‘We don't care if we're the loudest thing on the radio. We just want you to maintain our dynamics.’ You have to really respect that in a band.”

Each of Tool's albums has hidden tracks or sonic Easter eggs for the listener to discover. “Yeah, there's things on this record,” Barresi reveals. “There are two in particular that are very interesting. One was a piece that Adam had worked on. We put it together while we were at mastering and in the hotel room the night before. We kind of tweaked it more the following day with effects, arranging and stuff.”

“There were a couple of little sound effects that were actually created right in the mastering room,” Ludwig adds. “It's what they used to call musique concrète, which is music made from found objects or sounds that are manipulated. The last thing on the record is one of these musique concrète sound paintings that they have.”

The final format was a 96k sampling rate, 24-bit-resolution master, which they downsampled to 44.1k, 16-bit. “If any record deserves to be heard in surround sound, it's this one,” Ludwig says. “There's so much tone painting and so much color. It would just be a thrill to hear it in surround sound. And with 96k, 24-bit masters, we're ready for any kind of high-resolution digital projects.”

10,000 Days is a rich listening experience. There are multiple layers of music and sound. Repeated listenings reveal more details. Typical Tool.

“I listen to a lot of Pink Floyd,” Barresi says, “and though Tool isn't Pink Floyd, listening to an album a couple of times and discovering new things is part of the experience. You know, an echo or a part that would make you say, ‘What the hell was that?’”

“Their albums are like movies,” Ludwig concludes. “As a listener, I want to put their record on and play it from beginning to end to get the whole story because it evolves. You'll hear things later in the record that refer back to earlier things. It takes you to many places. It's really an awesome album.”
There ya go
Old 23rd November 2006
  #19
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GravityRobert's Avatar
 

^^^^^ Very insightful thumbsup
Old 24th November 2006
  #20
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from wikipedia

'Mixonline.com's interview with Joe Barresi and Bob Ludwig discuss Adams equipment and setup for the 10,000 Days album with great detail. When discussing the amps, Barresi mentions Adam's famous Marshall and Diezel, "a Mesa Boogie", a Bogner Uberschall, a Rivera Knucklehead Reverb, and "several others". In a Guitarworld magazine interview Adam also mentions an unspecified Peavey amp, which is probably one of the "several others" that Barresi mentions. As far as cabinets go, Barresi says that Mesa/Boogie cabinets were mostly used because of the better low end response. The Marshall ran through its Marshall cabinet and the Rivera ran through a Rivera cabinet. Barresi goes on to describe signal chain for tracking. He says that Adam would play through certain effects and then send the signal to a splitter. The sound would then go into three to five amps. The Marshall and Diezel would each get their own track, and a third track would be a mix of the other amps (usually the Bogner and Rivera). Each cabinet would have at least two to three mics on them. Rivera Amps also claims on its web page that he is using a Rivera Knucklehead Rev Mick Thompson model on the recording.'


hope this helps.
Old 17th February 2007
  #21
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Originally Posted by Kore View Post
....
My post was the whole thing, dude!

Old 17th February 2007
  #22
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I have a very old Rivera TBR1-SL - the big, heavy, rackmounted one... It can crush any Rectum-Fryer at will... the thing can go crazy heavy, so it doesn't surprise me that Paul is still making some hi-gain beasties.

Hard to go wrong with a Rivera.. I love mine.
Old 18th February 2007
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biggator6 View Post
I have a very old Rivera TBR1-SL - the big, heavy, rackmounted one... It can crush any Rectum-Fryer at will... the thing can go crazy heavy, so it doesn't surprise me that Paul is still making some hi-gain beasties.
You think yours is heavy. I have the TBR2-SL which is double sized power amp. Just the head is 75 pounds, but its a gorgeous amp. I like them better than any of the current amps (which are all pretty good) It was my main amp for over a decade until I started playing Jule Amps.
Old 13th December 2007
  #24
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Hey Im new here but i was wondering if anyone know what kind of pickups Adam uses in his Les Pauls???
Old 13th December 2007
  #25
Lee
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Lee's Avatar
Duncans

Bridge = JB
Neck = Jazz
Old 13th December 2007
  #26
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Sui_City's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
Duncans

Bridge = JB
Neck = Jazz
Was under the impression Neck was a '59.

Cool either way.
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