The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Will a sound card with 24bit/192kHz eliminate re-recording?
Old 26th June 2012
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Will a sound card with 24bit/192kHz eliminate re-recording?

Hello again,

I still have my 1st sound card from 4 yrs ago (Nio 2/4) and was wondering if I bought a pro sound card like Motu Ultralite 3 or the RME Fireface UC, will this improve my home recordings of guitar/bass/synths enough so I don't have to re record again in the studio?

I'd like to buy the SSL Alpha Channel but my dealer said I wouldn't notice it with my 48kHz sound card. He recommend getting a better sound card if I wanted to get a bit more professional sounding.

I use ableton and I'm not too sure if it's considered a "professional" DAW like Pro Tools etc, if that helps you undersatnd where I'm at...

I like the Motu Ultralite 3 cos it's not too expensive and seems to have great specs plus all the I/O I need.. Another cheap option was the TC Electronic Twin Impact and get a patchbay... OR.... The awesome RME?

It's really just for home stuff but if/when I need to take a mix to an Audio Engineer, I'd like it to be as nice as it could possibly sound.

Thanks again

Last edited by VandalSkateboard; 26th June 2012 at 09:07 AM.. Reason: Typo
Old 28th June 2012
  #2
Here for the gear
 

Ok, let me try again....

The reason I ask is cos when I brought a few tunes to get produced, the producer had a little giggle and said "how cool?!? It sounds so lo-fi"

This particular one was a House track and she said (the producer) she could fix it up a little, but it will never sound hi-fi... Unfortunately she has left the country and I cant pick her brain anymore...

So I guess my question is; Will a pro level Audio Interface get me sounding Hi-Fi?

I think I'm just gonna save my pennies and get the RME Fireface UCX anyways. Unless I can convince myself I don't need something so high spec and just get a cheaper Interface plus the Minibrute....

I just keep thinking ...RME... RME...RME......
Old 28th June 2012
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Red Black's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by VandalSkateboard View Post
Hello again,

I still have my 1st sound card from 4 yrs ago (Nio 2/4) and was wondering if I bought a pro sound card like Motu Ultralite 3 or the RME Fireface UC, will this improve my home recordings of guitar/bass/synths enough so I don't have to re record again in the studio?

I'd like to buy the SSL Alpha Channel but my dealer said I wouldn't notice it with my 48kHz sound card. He recommend getting a better sound card if I wanted to get a bit more professional sounding.

I use ableton and I'm not too sure if it's considered a "professional" DAW like Pro Tools etc, if that helps you undersatnd where I'm at...

I like the Motu Ultralite 3 cos it's not too expensive and seems to have great specs plus all the I/O I need.. Another cheap option was the TC Electronic Twin Impact and get a patchbay... OR.... The awesome RME?

It's really just for home stuff but if/when I need to take a mix to an Audio Engineer, I'd like it to be as nice as it could possibly sound.

Thanks again
Are you recording live guitars and bass and outboard synths?

The SSL would definitely make a difference in the quality of your recorded sounds, recording at 48khz or 44.1khz isn't going to change that . . . that doesn't mean it's necessarily the best purchase for you at this time though, a better interface may well be a priority . .

Ableton is considered a professional DAW; it's obviously designed with electronic music in mind though and is certainly best used for that style . .

Do you know what exactly sounded "Lo Fi" to your producer? Was it just tracks that you had recorded yourself . . are you using virtual instruments? Are you processing tracks and giving processed tracks to your producer?
Old 28th June 2012
  #4
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Black View Post
Are you recording live guitars and bass and outboard synths?
hello. Yes I record my guitars and bass with a Shure sm57 on the cab and sometimes i will use my Roger Linn Adrenalinn 3 straight into my interface.
My synths go into my RCA inputs on my current interface...

I think my next upgrade will definitely be the RME and a patch bay. I'll get the SSL much later on.

Also, I'm not sure if she meant the whole thing sounded lo-fi but she was playing around with some of samples from my Nord Wave. And yes, these sounds were processed by me. I dont really know how to do a proper "mix" so the compression and eq was done to the best of my ability to get it sounding somewhat close to what's in my head.. She was fiddling around with the drums too. They were done with NI Battery so the sounds should have been ok yeah?

Thanks for your thoughts Red Black.
Old 28th June 2012
  #5
Gear Head
 
ixtream's Avatar
 

Hey VandalSkateboard - the most obvious place the 'lo-fi' sound may have come from would be the eq & compression you used on the track. An artist with limited mix experience can easily over-compress/over-eq in an attempt to achieve a 'finished' sound.

Advice: pull up the track in your DAW and remove all eq & compression. Then re-mix the track using just the faders and pan knobs - once you've done that compare the 'no-effects' mix to the previous lo-fi mix. I have a feeling the no-fx mix will not sound as lo-fi. You might even post the remixed track on GS and ask for some advice on eq/compression.

One other area that can create a lo-fi sound is your mic placement. As you've probably read here on GS, very small changes in mic placement can yield drastic changes in the recorded tone. Let's say you place the mic 30cm from the speaker...the sm57 will pick up a lot of the room sound. If the room has a bad sound you have instant bad or lo-fi sound! If you place the mic 3 or 4cm from the speaker then you get very little room sound in the mic. Then, in close-mic'd situations simply changing the angle of the mic will again yield many more tones!

Keep at it!
Old 28th June 2012
  #6
Lives for gear
 
Red Black's Avatar
No worries!

Battery and the Nord are professional pieces of kit that show up on commercial releases . . nothing to worry about there!

I'd be inclined to produce a rough mix to show your producer where you are headed creatively with a track and to then provide the raw tracks to them unprocessed. If you are using effects in your rough mix that are integral to the track (delay, reverb, bit-crushing etc.) then include them but perhaps provide the dry signal and the fully effected signal to the producer separately if possible . . this allows them more flexibility when mixing. If you can watch how they process the instruments when they're working on your tracks you can pick up a few tips . . then your processing and your rough mixes will get better and better :]

You could also consider recording the direct signal from your guitar and bass when you record your amps . . this will allow your producer the option to re-amp the bass or guitar or use amp modellers if they want to get a different guitar or bass sound or even layer multiple amps . .

From what you've said this should make a bigger difference to the final quality of your recordings than any gear upgrade will!

Last edited by Red Black; 28th June 2012 at 03:19 PM.. Reason: shpellin'
Old 28th June 2012
  #7
Lives for gear
 

What do you monitor with when recording? How is your listening room?
Old 28th June 2012
  #8
Lives for gear
 
popmann's Avatar
A 57 intoa cheap preamp results in LoFi? Hmm...definitely, you should buy converters! And a Neve summing unit!

Or...idea...you could just use your system to write...and use a studio to make your records!
Old 29th June 2012
  #9
Lives for gear
 
popmann's Avatar
I'm sorry...I was feeling punchy earlier...

No, raising the resolution or quality of your conversion will not likely change whether or not you need to record. If we assume you have a decent room to play in...and a decent amp/axe...and you want to spend money on gear to record it? API 512c. Get a pair of them. Keep your 57 and add a Royer 121. You put those two mics on the grill, through two API preamps, and you'll have a hard time justifying rerecording Egtr tracks.

...but, that assumes you're not in a bedroom.

Vocals? Let your engineer at the studio help you pick a budget mic. the APIs will work fine double duty there.

Anyway, if you're collaborating with a studio, all that matters in terms of what DAW you use is that you know how to get timestamped WAVE or AIFF files in and out.

As a mix engineer who specializes in home recordings, I should probably write up a simple guide to tracking. Amps, vocals, bassDI, and acoustic guitar overdubs are not rocket science. And I guess I owe it to myself or someone like me to lead you down the right path gearwise...

Whoever told you that you won't notice a preamp at 48k is deaf...or you misunderstood...
Old 29th June 2012
  #10
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Hey VandalSkateboard - the most obvious place the 'lo-fi' sound may have come from would be the eq & compression you used on the track. An artist with limited mix experience can easily over-compress/over-eq in an attempt to achieve a 'finished' sound.
Hi Ixtream, I think you are 100% correct! Its prob my lack of experience and over compensation techniques Next time I decide to take a song further, I'll do my best to get my "vision" across in a demo and bring all the individual dry tracks too...

Quote:
this will allow your producer the option to re-amp the bass or guitar or use amp modellers if they want to get a different guitar or bass sound or even layer multiple amps
Hi again, Ive been looking into re-amping and it seems quite a convinient way to work, now everything is on a computer... Long gone are the days of my Yamaha 4 Track! (Although I still have it)

Quote:
What do you monitor with when recording? How is your listening room?
Hi Cheebs. I use my Tannoy 5A monitors in my 3x4m studio/spare bedroom. It doesnt sound too bad, its not super reflective, but then again, Im still a novice... Everything sounds so different when I take a track Ive mixed on my speakers compared to when I show my mate on his AMES monitors (I think its AMES?) All of a sudden, there is poo in my sound

Quote:
A 57 intoa cheap preamp results in LoFi? Hmm...definitely, you should buy converters! And a Neve summing unit!
Hi Popmann, Neve aye? I really shouldnt look at Neve stuff because I'll convince myself I REALLY NEED IT!!!! I know I dont though it would be nice if I had unlimited cash...

Quote:
I'm sorry...I was feeling punchy earlier...

No, raising the resolution or quality of your conversion will not likely change whether or not you need to record. If we assume you have a decent room to play in...and a decent amp/axe...and you want to spend money on gear to record it? API 512c. Get a pair of them. Keep your 57 and add a Royer 121. You put those two mics on the grill, through two API preamps, and you'll have a hard time justifying rerecording Egtr tracks.

...but, that assumes you're not in a bedroom.

Vocals? Let your engineer at the studio help you pick a budget mic. the APIs will work fine double duty there.

Anyway, if you're collaborating with a studio, all that matters in terms of what DAW you use is that you know how to get timestamped WAVE or AIFF files in and out.

As a mix engineer who specializes in home recordings, I should probably write up a simple guide to tracking. Amps, vocals, bassDI, and acoustic guitar overdubs are not rocket science. And I guess I owe it to myself or someone like me to lead you down the right path gearwise...

Whoever told you that you won't notice a preamp at 48k is deaf...or you misunderstood...
LOL! No need to be sorry mate! Thanks for coming back with some nice info! That API looks interesting, the Royer too... Do you reckon I'd be better of with the API over the SSL ALpha? I would like another pre, a nice one, to add to my rack. Ive got a Joe Meek Twin Q but really only ever use it on one channel with my bass.... Also, I think my dealer meant that my current interface with only RCA line inputs would not make best use of the SSL or any other upgrade in my signal chain... Maybe I should get an interface with at least ballanced I/O...

Thanks everyone for your help. I know its sort of like asking for free stuff but I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experience
Old 29th June 2012
  #11
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by VandalSkateboard View Post
Thanks everyone for your help. I know its sort of like asking for free stuff but I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experience
Awwwww.....
Old 29th June 2012
  #12
Here for the gear
 

not sure it is the subject, but the best thing I did that improved both recording and mixing is to put acoustic treatment in the room. not the most pro, but fair enough and with great results (600/700 euros of thomann pyramid foam 1m2 7cm depth, 4 auralex square corner fills bass traps (the big cubes) and 9 charcoal corner fill (auralex too, sold as bass trap). That's only for the wall behind me, a couple of corners on the sides, and around the speakers. My room is about 12 m2 and 3 edges of the cellar (the wall above my head :-) ) are rounded (no early reflections on those).
Anyway, it is not the most expensive, not the cheapest, but a good compromise for a moderate price.I don't think a home studio needs much more.

The Difference between with and without is huge, both in the trebles and bass frequencies. all is cleaner, my mix are far better. And it is only the wall behind me: now, I don't have trebles and lows coming back to me from behind, and I can mix relatively loud before I have the blurred sound i had before.
The best gear in the world will not solve this problem nor help improving if what you hear is not right, and what you record is noisy and full of the room's resonance.
You will just have high quality recordings of a "bad" sound.... and your mixing will not improve the way it could just because you got new fine gear.

I already have a good sound interface, but I should have done the acoustic treatment years ago !!! (if only i had the budget in that time....).
Soundwise, it is a great , even a massive, upgrade. I did it over 3 / 4 month period, so it didnt really hurt in my budget.
Old 4th July 2012
  #13
Here for the gear
 

Ok... So it looks like the API 512c is the way to go for what I want. Only thing is, now I don't know wether to get the API Lunchbox (6 slot) or just the 1U rack with only 2 slots... 500 series here we go!

I also like the DocDerr by Emperical Labs and the Retro Doublewide... I know I'll probably want these in the future, so maybe get the Lunchbox...

I'll have to add to my toys, one birthday, one Xmas and one Tax Return at a time...

Dam u pro Audio!

I'll invest in some sound treatment too :-)

Last edited by VandalSkateboard; 4th July 2012 at 06:16 AM.. Reason: Add smiley
Old 4th July 2012
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
BasHermus's Avatar
 

Hi VandalSkateboard...

I would really look at different microphones first (as suggested by others), even before looking at other preamps.

The sm57 is not a bad microphone (certainly construction wise) but it really has a very distinct color: a bit tinny, with not that much low-end and a lift in the high-mids (to me it sounds lofi).
I doubt there are many people using only the sm57 on its own in a studio.
Its strong point is using it together with other microphones, were you can use the sm57 track to add presence (and have control over that presence, because it is on a seperate track).
On its own, I would not use it.

Which microphones to try is difficult to answer. There seems to be one for every possible taste.

Personally I really like the Lauten Clarion for a lot of reasons (and their sound being the most important one).
One nice feature is that it has 10 dB boost switch, so you can get a good quality sound with modest preamps.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
moinho / Live Sound
16
miercoles / Live Sound
18
gchBASS / Live Sound
30
s.d.finley / Live Sound
11

Forum Jump
Forum Jump