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sub woofer!!!
Old 9th June 2006
  #1
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themaestro's Avatar
 

sub woofer!!!

i'm looking to add a subwoofer to my setup. i'm currently running mackie hr824s and yamaha ns10s. i've seen the subs by mackie, krk, yamaha, and jbl. i'm leaning towards the mackie sub to complete my set, but im open to mix and match.......any suggestions? pros? cons? alternatives?
Old 9th June 2006
  #2
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StudioTinPanAll's Avatar
 

hi,

i just received my mackie hrs-150 and that's a subwoofer
i have had or heard many other subs before (yamaha, rel, tannoy, ....)
but none of them come close to the mackie
i don't know how the hrs-120 performs but i would surely go for the 150 !
grtz,

wim
Old 9th June 2006
  #3
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themaestro's Avatar
 

lol...thats a big boy! i dont know if im ready to swing 2 stacks for a sub, but i guess yours counts as a vote for mackie i see that the majority of the higher end subs have a variable crossover. considering that i'll be pushing my highs thru the 824s, where should i crossover at?
Old 9th June 2006
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

Just picked up an Adam P-sub second hand for a good price; & it has a variable crossover. It seems pretty good, cost £1000 new (& thankfully a fraction of that s/h). I dont think it is as meaty as the models mentioned so far, but certainly brings that unmistakeable nightclub thud to a smallish room.

The variable crossover thing took some experimenting. You have one frequency for the subwoofer and another for the monitors & Adam recommend a gap between the two, using natural roll-off to avoid any sort of hump. I've got them at about 60Hz and 75Hz at the moment (but may go back to 50 & 65 for another try)

The thing I hadnt expected was how much the monitors (genelec 1030As) would open out and come to life once they had some bass duties taken away.

A week later I got my bass traps delivered and now I can REALLY hear the bass
(I had to take about 6db off a low bass part the moment the traps were in place)

I'm sure you are recording in an totally treated room & this one was particularly bad without heavy trapping, but just in case - it is worth bearing in mind

:-J
Old 9th June 2006
  #5
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Zwinter's Avatar
 

Personally I am not a big fan of adding subs. But I do want to warn you about making sure they are properly set up, which means that you need to look at a response curve of your room and change the placement of your sub until you get somewhat of a flat curve. When I was working in LA we put in a 5.1 system in one room and initially the sub placement was so bad that we had a -25 dB dip in the 80 to 100 Hz range. Obviously we took care of this problem. But think if you didn't. You would then compensate in your mixes by adding in the 80 to 100 Hz range. So in the end, you may not be any better off.
Old 9th June 2006
  #6
Gear Guru
 
Ethan Winer's Avatar
 

> i'm looking to add a subwoofer to my setup. <

I tend to agree with Zach. Mackie HR824s are flat to below 40 Hz, which is plenty low for most pop music. If you're doing surround mixes for movies you do need a sub, but often adding a sub to a music control room adds more problems than it solves. Especially if you don't have adequate bass trapping, which most people don't.

--Ethan
Old 9th June 2006
  #7
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 

Yes, you definitely need a sub! Especially the type of music you are doing... Believe it or not, I think the Mackie HRS120 is a good subwoofer..
Old 9th June 2006
  #8
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kingofswing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddy No
Just picked up an Adam P-sub second hand for a good price; & it has a variable crossover. It seems pretty good, cost £1000 new (& thankfully a fraction of that s/h). I dont think it is as meaty as the models mentioned so far, but certainly brings that unmistakeable nightclub thud to a smallish room.

The thing I hadnt expected was how much the monitors (genelec 1030As) would open out and come to life once they had some bass duties taken away.

I was gonna get that same sub off the sos ads. It was around week or so ago, but i let it go. Im going to get one soon though.

I find that adding a sub really opens up the sound field and also improves the stereo image of the monitors. I tried out the Adam Sub10 with my P33s and noticed that its sounded very full range, and resulted in greater headroom. I had the sub on a solid floor away from any walls or corners.

Im quite familar with full range sound as i work in big PA, so i was impressed with sub setup with the adams.

Maybe a mono sub is not always recommened, but in the right room, and set right...it can sound amazing.

As for translation, thats a compromise. Im planning to use the sub for vibe factor and for checking the lows (mainly kick drum and bass). Then go back and forth to the main nearfields (w/o sub) and other references.

I dont have room for huge mains, and dont like to compromise on detail either. With a sub, i get the best of both.

BTW im sure the Mackies use a footwsitch for bypassing the sub, its very handy.
Old 9th June 2006
  #9


2 or 4 subs can often make a much more even soundfield on the low end than a single sub.....



-tINY

Old 10th June 2006
  #10
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kingofswing's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tINY


2 or 4 subs can often make a much more even soundfield on the low end than a single sub.....



-tINY


True, but it also depends on the room.
Old 10th June 2006
  #11
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StudioTinPanAll's Avatar
 

if you connect a couple of hr-824's to a mackie sub,
the output to the 824's is highpass (relative to the crossover point of the sub)
so you put your 824's to full range
the crossover point is variable but the standard setting of 80hz works great
you can switch the sub in/out with a footswitch
if you switch it out, the 824's receive full range signal

grtz,

wim
Old 10th June 2006
  #12
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The KRK 10's slams...
Old 10th June 2006
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Check out these, the Paradigm PDR series:
http://www.paradigm.com/Website/Site...DR_Series.html

I have the Paradigm PDR-8 (a little older black model) amplified with soft clipping. It is the best I've ever heard. Since it's not very big it doesn't become boomy and the woods material makes it unboxy sounding, it just covers the low end in a very pleasant way with a nice punch and with as much softness as you feed to it. It's AWESOME!
Old 10th June 2006
  #14
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themaestro's Avatar
 

thanks guys, i know ill never come close to good acoustics in my little 12 by 12. i really just want the sub so i can bang out! the sub is more to suplement my vibe while im producing then for anything else. my little lab was acousticly doomed from the minute it was built so there's not much i can do in that department....i'm hoping the sub will allow me to put more pressure on my mackies. to be totally honest, i have some very close producer/artist friends who are topping billboard with fruity loops and huge PA speakers in 6 by 8 rooms, so all of my classical training, top of the line equipment, bass traps, and ns10s and all that other stuff that people tell me I HAVE to have aren't making a bit of difference at the end of the day
Old 10th June 2006
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

def need a sub. if u cant hear the low frequencies how can u mix them. especially if u doin hip hop r&b dance, etc. when we put the sub in a ways back it took us a few days of adjusting and runnin out to the car to "learn" how it was translating. no different then gettin new monitors.
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