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Outboard Mixer vs No Outboard Mixer
Old 19th May 2012
  #1
Gear Addict
 

Outboard Mixer vs No Outboard Mixer

I have some outboard Gear:

Vintech x73
Daking mic pre w/EQ
UA 6176
Drawmer 610
Art MPA II & VLA II

I run that through my Interface (Echo Audiofire 8) into Logic


My Question is:


I seem to be doing just fine without an outboard mixer but would their be some benefit? if so, what?



Thanks a Bunch!
Old 19th May 2012
  #2
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Only if you have a great console, nothing cheap like you would by at Guitar Center, I had some Tascams, Allen Heath etc, they weren't as good as ITB, now if you are gonna be using SSL, Trident, Harrison, API things can really sound nice in a OTB mix, get my drift ?
Old 19th May 2012
  #3
Gear Addict
 
danly's Avatar
 

bs. i disagree. i believe otb summing sounds better, even on a mackie or behringer. however, only use the board for mixing line level signals, not for the pres
Old 19th May 2012
  #4
Gear Addict
 

Do i need to buy any additional interface to do outboard mixing? (other than the gear I already have)


I was thinking about this one:


Toft Audio Designs ATB-08 Mixing Console | Musician's Friend


lastly, if I did get an outboard mixer, How do I use the outboard mic pre's that I have since each channel already has their own dedicated mic pre?

Is there a way to bypass the built in mic pre so I can use my outboard Pre, if I choose to?
Old 20th May 2012
  #5
Gear Addict
 

Also:


I have been using the UAD-2 stuff (la-2a,1176, studer A800, echoplex plug-ins)
during my ITB Mix downs and they sound Fantastic.


If I buy an outboard Mixer I won't be able to use the UAD-2 stuff, Right?
Old 20th May 2012
  #6
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by danly View Post
bs. i disagree. i believe otb summing sounds better, even on a mackie or behringer. however, only use the board for mixing line level signals, not for the pres
To much phasing issues/ crosstalk using such boards as a Mackie, Behringer, Alesis etc, they are surface mount, that right there is enough said.
Surface mounts boards are ok live, use them till they break down, throw away and get another, do you realize how much the tools cost just to work on surface mount boards ? every time my tech see's a surface mount he says #$%^&*....
Old 20th May 2012
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Faderjockey's Avatar
 

That is not true.. Surface mount was the devil.. And hand wired was awesome..
But there is nothing wrong with it now.. Dangerous uses surface mount and it sounds awesome. SSL and many many more now a days..

it's just like people saying stuff built in China is crap..
What's crap is the US companies telling the guys in China to use Crap parts.
Those guys over there are like machines.. but if you tell them to use highest quality parts of course it would cost more but it would sound as you want.
it's down to the design and the parts used.

Surface mount is not evil anymore.. I use to think the same thing.
But like I just said if you look at the boards you mentioned yeah..They are using crap components. and the build quality isn't the highest so it feels and sounds bummy.
Old 20th May 2012
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
hendo's Avatar
 

For what purpose(s) are you planning to use the mixer? Tracking? Summing? Do you want EQ? Do you need effects or AUX sends?

Buy a mixer and you might spend a lot of money for features you don't need. If all you want to do is summing (OTB mix-down), buy a summing box that fits your budget. Because the Audiofire only has only 8 analog outputs, you'll likely want a summing box that does panning.

You can spend a fortune if you want; however, a good place to start is the Black Lion Audio PM8 Summing Mixer. I haven't personally used one, but Black Lion makes quality gear. Perhaps someone with more knowledge can chime in.

Black Lion Audio PM8 Summing Mixer | VintageKing.com

Yes, you'll still be able to use the UAD plugs.

And, no, do not buy cheap. The quality of the outboard mixer most definitely matters.
Old 20th May 2012
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenfields View Post
Do i need to buy any additional interface to do outboard mixing? (other than the gear I already have)

....

lastly, if I did get an outboard mixer, How do I use the outboard mic pre's that I have since each channel already has their own dedicated mic pre?

Is there a way to bypass the built in mic pre so I can use my outboard Pre, if I choose to?
If I were mixing on a console then I'd want 1 channel of DAC for every track in my session, so more than 8 DACs in most cases here.

You don't have to use the console for tracking at all if you don't want to, but many consoles have a line in option if you want to use the EQs and bussing with outboard preamps.
Old 20th May 2012
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by danly View Post
bs. i disagree. i believe otb summing sounds better, even on a mackie or behringer. however, only use the board for mixing line level signals, not for the pres
bs. I disagree. heh

(Actually, I don't think you're laying out 'bs' at all -- because you used the important qualifier, I believe. I was just 'dishing back' so you'd know how it feels to have someone start off a post by saying you're full of it. )


I have a 90s Mackie VLZ mixer. I used to use it for OTB mixing but in the early part of the decade I moved to mixing ITB, which I much prefer. That said, we all work differently.

However, I do really like the pres in the Mackie board. Many people don't, of course, some because they're looking for that once-trendy, highly colored 'vintage' sound (which I really do not like), and some, without doubt, simply because that's the 'cool' position. I'm way beyond caring about cool, myself. heh
Old 20th May 2012
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenfields View Post
Also:


I have been using the UAD-2 stuff (la-2a,1176, studer A800, echoplex plug-ins)
during my ITB Mix downs and they sound Fantastic.


If I buy an outboard Mixer I won't be able to use the UAD-2 stuff, Right?
You can always insert plug-ins on your tracks in the DAW before they head out to the console.

BTW, high quality DACs and ADCs for capture are important for analog mixing. I might rather stay ITB than mix through prosumer converters.
Old 20th May 2012
  #12
Gear Addict
 

So I just go through each channels "line in" and that will allow me to us my outboard mic pre/Eq gear (Vintech x73, taking mic pre w/eq, UA6176)?


Thanks


and lastly, someone already told me this but I want to make sure,

Can I still use my UAD-2 plug-ins (la-2a, 1176) for mix down if I use an outboard mixer or will I have to buy outboard compressors?
Old 20th May 2012
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllAboutTone View Post
To much phasing issues/ crosstalk using such boards as a Mackie, Behringer, Alesis etc, they are surface mount, that right there is enough said.
Surface mounts boards are ok live, use them till they break down, throw away and get another, do you realize how much the tools cost just to work on surface mount boards ? every time my tech see's a surface mount he says #$%^&*....
And yet my SR2404 has a spec of -89.5 dB crosstalk, 1 kHz @ 0 dBU, 20Hz-20kHz (channel fader down, channels at unity).

Crosstalk on my board has never been an issue for me.
Old 20th May 2012
  #14
D K
Lives for gear
 
D K's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trakworx View Post

BTW, high quality DACs and ADCs for capture are important for analog mixing. I might rather stay ITB than mix through prosumer converters.

see this statement alot around here: check this quote from Sound on Sound's article about "hybrid" setups:



That said, converters would almost never be top of my shopping list — and you might be surprised by just what you can get away with, given the quality of audio interfaces currently on the market. Although there are also a few high-end converter manufacturers such as Burl, whose products are deliberately designed to colour the sound (albeit subtly) in a pleasing way, most converters are designed to be as clean and neutral as possible... and the fact is that, as bad as some designs were in the past, the converters on most audio interfaces these days are actually rather good. (Note that I’m not thinking about the mic preamps in your interface here, where there’s a more tangible difference between different models!)

Even with modestly priced models such as the Behringer ADA8000 ADAT expander, audio signals should stand several ‘generations’ of conversion before there’s audible degradation of the signal quality. Furthermore, if you’re sending signals out of the box and back, it’s usually to add ‘flavour’ or ‘colour’: there’s no point sending audio out and back to get clean gain when you have infinitely tweakable access to that in your DAW. So even in the event some tiny artifacts do creep in, you might discover that it doesn’t present the problem you’d imagined, or that it’s at least a price worth paying to get the tonal colour you’re seeking.



Let me qualify by saying I believe better conversion will always be a priority and should be sought... the best quote I have seen on this forum regarding this is RCM (Ronan Chris Murphy) who says " using outboard thru "prosumer" converters is like spending a dime to make a dollar"

seems like a worth while trade off to me if you are using any decent modern converter

just my .02

Here is the article for reference: Hybrid Systems
Old 20th May 2012
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by D K View Post
seems like a worth wile trade off to me if you are using any decent modern converter
Sure, but "decent" is the operative word, no? My advice was intended for the OP who owns an Echo Audiofire 8 ($599.00) but is considering buying a Toft ATB-08 Console ($3999.99). Seems like a slight mismatch to me, that's all. Enjoy,
Old 20th May 2012
  #16
Gear Addict
 

Thanks for the replies!

About my echo audio fire 8. Has anybody used this?

I think it is by far the best interface for the money. It is not a "cheap" interface.
Old 20th May 2012
  #17
D K
Lives for gear
 
D K's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenfields View Post
Thanks for the replies!

About my echo audio fire 8. Has anybody used this?

I think it is by far the best interface for the money. It is not a "cheap" interface.

I have not used it but I have heard it and I would most certainly put it in the decent category.. that's why I posted that quote... I believe in good conversion and know (don't think) there is a difference and as such have invested in it so my money is where my mouth is ..but Sound on Sound's assessment rings true to me and makes alot of sense..after all.. they list "Berry" in that category and I would think Echo is at the very least on par and probably better.. I wouldn't let the fact that you are using Echo stop you from exploring the possibility of getting outside the box..that is really all I am saying here.. not really wanting to open a discussion about converter quality..whole nother kettle of fish with that....
Old 20th May 2012
  #18
Gear Guru
 
Sounds Great's Avatar
 

Come on, same old thread, there must be thousands of ITB vs: OTB

And there is no answer, just a million opinions.
Old 20th May 2012
  #19
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
Come on, same old thread, there must be thousands of ITB vs: OTB

And there is no answer, just a million opinions.
Always have, suppose always will be that way.
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