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Brian Eno lecture on music technology Dynamics Processors (HW)
Old 9th May 2012
  #1
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

Brian Eno lecture on music technology

WATCHING THIS IS WHAT YOU WILL BE DOING FOR THE NEXT HOUR.



- c
Old 10th May 2012
  #2
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engelen62's Avatar
Wow how did you know?
Old 10th May 2012
  #3
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tonedimension's Avatar
 

Thank you. Pretty cool way to spend an hour I'd say...
Old 10th May 2012
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver sonya View Post
watching this is what you will be doing for the next hour.



- c
thank you!
Old 10th May 2012
  #5
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cheu78's Avatar
Will watch it later.. Thank you!



Cheu
Old 10th May 2012
  #6
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The Listener's Avatar
Thank you very much for this.

I knew he was smart and inspiring... but he manages to surprise me even more.

Will not watch in this hour, although I'd like to. But later this evening.

Thanks!!
Old 10th May 2012
  #7
Just re-reading his bio now... perfect timing...
Old 10th May 2012
  #8
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cebec's Avatar
 

Thanks! Watching now...
Old 10th May 2012
  #9
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Rentzen's Avatar
I'm at work now, but this is todays carrot that I can look forward to when I'm off thanx
Old 10th May 2012
  #10
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Thank you for the link.

Eno is my favorite artists to listen to when talking about their work. He has always been very generous speaking and writing about process, materials and ideas. His delivery and ability to convey often complex ideas in a very approachable way are amazing.

As a teacher in a predominantly visual arts school, I often reach for Eno writings or presentations because of his uniquely interdisciplinary perspective. I teach installation and performance classes (among other things) and referencing Eno always makes it much easier to talk about the spaces "between" various models of practice.

Then there is the idea of being able to learn from one discipline, how to expand or challenge another discipline, which is so apparent in his own work.

Finally, if there is one thing that I have personally learned from him, it is the importance of structure. And what flows out of that is the ability to think diagramatically. I draw a lot of diagrams. At times I realize that I simply can't express an idea accurately unless (or until) I draw a diagram.

Understanding structure, thinking about ideas in terms of relationships and networks has become a fundamental concept for me, and I know that a lot of it came from following Eno's train of thought.

p.
Old 11th May 2012
  #11
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The Listener's Avatar
Nice talk, but with all the respect I have for the man, I can't understand how could he made such an errant remark, that the classical world didn't understand the studio and recording as a new art form and goes on to name the supposedly pioneering work made in the pop-rock production, etc. as the first people who understood studio trickery as a new kind of expression.

The truth is that the revolution and experimentation both with electronic music and studio used as an instrument was started exactly by the "classical folk" - musique concrete, etc.
What about Pierre Schaeffer, Toru Takemitsu, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Edgar Varese, Pierre Henry, Edgar Varese, etc.??

They developed the modes of creation only later found in genres of more popular electronic music, dub, etc. Pierre Henry was playing mixing boards before Mad Professor or Lee Scratch Perry...
Or Vladimir Ussachevsky - no need to dig further than Wikipedia to find:

"Herbert Russcol writes: "Soon he was intrigued with the new sonorities he could achieve by recording musical instruments and then superimposing them on one another."[52] Ussachevsky said later: "I suddenly realized that the tape recorder could be treated as an instrument of sound transformation."

The pioneers of creative use of tape, layering, overdubbing and other studio trickery, including the use of synthesizers and other noise generating machines were exactly the classical folk, not the producers of the 60s.

I can't understand that error from such a wise man.

Another quote about Pierre Schaeffer and Pierre Henry:

"Their studios in the '50s and '60s were hotspots of experimentation. They formed the ORTF (French Radio) Experimental Studio in the '50s, and in 1960 Henry founded the studio APSOME and Schaeffer founded the Groupe De Recherches Musicales. Among his many students was French synthesist Jean-Michel Jarre, who regards Schaeffer as a mentor. "He was very important in my life," claims Jarre, "because he was the first man to consider music in terms of sound and not notes, harmonies, and chords."

Or a quote featuring Eno (and I do really respect and like that man a lot otherwise ) :

"Before Trevor Horn sampled a sound, Akin and the Chipmunks squealed, or Run-DMC scratched a record; when synthesizers were a twinkle in the imagination of Varese and Cage and at about the same moment that Eno formed his first infant gurgles, Pierre Schaeffer and Pierre Henry (pronounced: Ahn-ree) were transmuting the world of sound. In the mid-'60s, their techniques were arcane: by the early '80s they were nouveau-chic. But in 1948, they were revolutionary."
Old 11th May 2012
  #12
I think that it IS important to question Eno. What he says is very seductive. Eno is a wonderful conceptual thinker, but it's also interesting to look at his career and observe him when he is being conventional.
Old 11th May 2012
  #13
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piotr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Listener View Post
Nice talk, but with all the respect I have for the man, I can't understand how could he made such an errant remark, that the classical world didn't understand the studio and recording as a new art form and goes on to name the supposedly pioneering work made in the pop-rock production, etc. as the first people who understood studio trickery as a new kind of expression.

The truth is that the revolution and experimentation both with electronic music and studio used as an instrument was started exactly by the "classical folk" - musique concrete, etc.
What about Pierre Schaeffer, Toru Takemitsu, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Edgar Varese, Pierre Henry, Edgar Varese, etc.??

They developed the modes of creation only later found in genres of more popular electronic music, dub, etc. Pierre Henry was playing mixing boards before Mad Professor or Lee Scratch Perry...
Or Vladimir Ussachevsky - no need to dig further than Wikipedia to find:

"Herbert Russcol writes: "Soon he was intrigued with the new sonorities he could achieve by recording musical instruments and then superimposing them on one another."[52] Ussachevsky said later: "I suddenly realized that the tape recorder could be treated as an instrument of sound transformation."

The pioneers of creative use of tape, layering, overdubbing and other studio trickery, including the use of synthesizers and other noise generating machines were exactly the classical folk, not the producers of the 60s.

I can't understand that error from such a wise man.

Another quote about Pierre Schaeffer and Pierre Henry:

"Their studios in the '50s and '60s were hotspots of experimentation. They formed the ORTF (French Radio) Experimental Studio in the '50s, and in 1960 Henry founded the studio APSOME and Schaeffer founded the Groupe De Recherches Musicales. Among his many students was French synthesist Jean-Michel Jarre, who regards Schaeffer as a mentor. "He was very important in my life," claims Jarre, "because he was the first man to consider music in terms of sound and not notes, harmonies, and chords."

Or a quote featuring Eno (and I do really respect and like that man a lot otherwise ) :

"Before Trevor Horn sampled a sound, Akin and the Chipmunks squealed, or Run-DMC scratched a record; when synthesizers were a twinkle in the imagination of Varese and Cage and at about the same moment that Eno formed his first infant gurgles, Pierre Schaeffer and Pierre Henry (pronounced: Ahn-ree) were transmuting the world of sound. In the mid-'60s, their techniques were arcane: by the early '80s they were nouveau-chic. But in 1948, they were revolutionary."
You are right.

To be fair: when I was listening to this talk I had a few moments where I was thinking "is this really true?" or "that doesn't sound completely right"... etc. My thoughts came more during the sections where he was talking about the history of visual arts: the painting and beginnings of constructivist movement. But I resisted the urge to immediately verify the dates and names. I stopped myself from doing that because where I appreciate the Eno's insight most is the ability to see the proverbial "big picture" rather than dish out the historical data. History is funny that way. We only include in it what seems "important" to us. And most of the time historical arguments are made not to illuminate the past events, but rather to prop up the perceptions of the present. Which is what he is doing in this talk. He should have emphasize more the fact that he was speaking of the evolution of these musical ideas related to recording techniques from his point of view or experience as a pop musician. What he was talking about is true if you only consider the popular music scene (to use his term). You rightly point out that there is the classical scene that forged it's own path. To not mention Pierre Schaeffer when speaking about the birth of "the studio as instrument" is criminal.

BUT at the same time, I loved the idea of thinking about the orchestra as a "new technology" of the time, with its military/religious hierarchy. I think it's this argument alone that skewed the view of the rest. Meaning, that for a lot of people, THAT is the image of classical music, and not the pioneering experimentalists we are talking about. Truth is that these musicians did often position themselves against that "classical" model, and challenged the hierarchies that to this day continue (again, for a large number of people) to define what is "classical music". So, what I am trying to say is that I can see how one can make an argument contrasting the classical music format (orchestra) with the non-classical structure of the studio. But to not acknowledge the vast "gray" space between those two worlds is to miss perhaps the most exciting scene.

p.
Old 11th May 2012
  #14
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topperf's Avatar
 

The sound engineer deserves a EQ and feedback lesson..
Damn a distraction..

- Thnx for posting SilverS.
Old 11th May 2012
  #15
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erikdrink's Avatar
Hmmm
Old 11th May 2012
  #16
He seemed also to forget that one of the really huge music tech revolutions around that time was the pianoforte. That certainly effected composers of the time many of whom were keyboard players and many if not all wrote from, for and with the pianoforte.

I also thought that when he was about to discuss the one thing that had the most profound effect in the 20th Century he was going to say ELECTRICITY. The development of electricity and its inevitable conjunction with musical instruments was the genus. Recording studios to me is more akin to a species albeit a very important one.

Ultimately I did not listen the the whole thing because he was putting everything in absolute terms rather than stating that this was HIS perception or UNDERSTANDING and it included what was important to him which is not necessarily what was historically important.

He is a very creative musician to be sure but whether that makes him a musical philosopher I suppose is for the individual to answer. For me it was too limited a view based more on personal experience than scholarly research and well thought out articulation.

With all that it was somewhat entertaining.
Old 11th May 2012
  #17
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piotr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
[...]
Ultimately I did not listen the the whole thing because he was putting everything in absolute terms rather than stating that this was HIS perception or UNDERSTANDING and it included what was important to him which is not necessarily what was historically important.
[...]
I agree with your assessment in principle.
What I would add is that my understanding of history is that it is all someone's "perception" or "understanding" of selected events from the past. Personally I take it as a given, so it didn't bother me so much that he spoke of these ideas in, as you say, absolute terms. Seems to me that we are all a kind of absolute authority on our histories ;-)
p.
Old 13th May 2012
  #18
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The Listener's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotr View Post
You are right.

To be fair: when I was listening to this talk I had a few moments where I was thinking "is this really true?" or "that doesn't sound completely right"... etc. My thoughts came more during the sections where he was talking about the history of visual arts: the painting and beginnings of constructivist movement. But I resisted the urge to immediately verify the dates and names. I stopped myself from doing that because where I appreciate the Eno's insight most is the ability to see the proverbial "big picture" rather than dish out the historical data. History is funny that way. We only include in it what seems "important" to us. And most of the time historical arguments are made not to illuminate the past events, but rather to prop up the perceptions of the present. Which is what he is doing in this talk. He should have emphasize more the fact that he was speaking of the evolution of these musical ideas related to recording techniques from his point of view or experience as a pop musician. What he was talking about is true if you only consider the popular music scene (to use his term). You rightly point out that there is the classical scene that forged it's own path. To not mention Pierre Schaeffer when speaking about the birth of "the studio as instrument" is criminal.

BUT at the same time, I loved the idea of thinking about the orchestra as a "new technology" of the time, with its military/religious hierarchy. I think it's this argument alone that skewed the view of the rest. Meaning, that for a lot of people, THAT is the image of classical music, and not the pioneering experimentalists we are talking about. Truth is that these musicians did often position themselves against that "classical" model, and challenged the hierarchies that to this day continue (again, for a large number of people) to define what is "classical music". So, what I am trying to say is that I can see how one can make an argument contrasting the classical music format (orchestra) with the non-classical structure of the studio. But to not acknowledge the vast "gray" space between those two worlds is to miss perhaps the most exciting scene.

p.
Agreed completely. I also took out the unique and interesting bits - like the idea of "surrendering", etc. It is true what you say - we interpret and take out of history the things that matter to us and construct the picture based on that - but sometimes when it is not accurate we can make a too biased or wrong construct that can be counter-productive, resulting in "reinventing the wheel" or not giving credit to people/artists that deserve it. Or you spread your version of history to others who repeat it and so it becomes the new truth, based on one person's idea, not on the actual events in the past.
Very much agree on the last sentence...
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