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Help with Master Clock!
Old 9th May 2012
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Help with Master Clock!

So i'm a long time lurker, finally posting for the first time
Anyway, i'm basically just looking for somebody to confirm my understanding of how my setup works, or to correct me where i'm wrong. I've got 2 Echo Audiofire 12's. From what I understand, since they have two firewire connections, I can daisy chain them together. Will ProTools automatically recognize that I did this and i'll have 24 channels, or is there something I need to do inside of ProTools?
I'm looking to get a Master Clock with separate and dedicated Word Clock Outs for each piece of equipment for my set up. So I would go:
Master Word Clock 1 Out > 1st Audiofire 12 WC In
Master Word Clock 2 Out > 2nd Audiofire 12 WC In
And I would have the clock on both of the audiofires set to WC, not INT?
Assuming all of that is correct, what would I set the clock source to in ProTools?
And per chance I wanted to add an A/D converter into that mix, what would the chain be then?
So sorry for all the questions, but if these were all answered i'd have a complete understanding and it would be incredibly helpful! Also, if i'm incredibly wrong to the point that I seem ********, please correct me and explain, i'd appreciate it a ton! Thanks!
Old 9th May 2012
  #2
Here for the gear
 

Anybody?
Old 9th May 2012
  #3
You can put junctions in word clock cables to split between devices
And you can buy routers for when you clock multiple devices
Fairly deep topic that my chops are rusty on

Just tossing those two thoughts to the mix..
Old 9th May 2012
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Barish's Avatar
Look up for a thread called "Correct Termination" for the correct use of wordclocking.

For the multiple audiofire uses, Google forgodssake... the manufacturer has a dedicated document for it:

http://www.echoaudio.com/downloadfil...X%20readme.pdf
Old 9th May 2012
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureRiffery View Post
So i'm a long time lurker, finally posting for the first time
Anyway, i'm basically just looking for somebody to confirm my understanding of how my setup works, or to correct me where i'm wrong. I've got 2 Echo Audiofire 12's. From what I understand, since they have two firewire connections, I can daisy chain them together. Will ProTools automatically recognize that I did this and i'll have 24 channels, or is there something I need to do inside of ProTools?
I'm looking to get a Master Clock with separate and dedicated Word Clock Outs for each piece of equipment for my set up. So I would go:
Master Word Clock 1 Out > 1st Audiofire 12 WC In
Master Word Clock 2 Out > 2nd Audiofire 12 WC In
And I would have the clock on both of the audiofires set to WC, not INT?
Assuming all of that is correct, what would I set the clock source to in ProTools?
And per chance I wanted to add an A/D converter into that mix, what would the chain be then?
So sorry for all the questions, but if these were all answered i'd have a complete understanding and it would be incredibly helpful! Also, if i'm incredibly wrong to the point that I seem ********, please correct me and explain, i'd appreciate it a ton! Thanks!
After reading the manual, it does confirm the use of chained AudioFire Units on the FW connector [and Barish's link is extremely helpful as well] You would want One interface on Internal Clock, [preferably the first connected unit] and then a simple and short Word Clock cable to the second interface, which would be set to external clock. This should be a good way to roll with it. A Master clock is not always needed, unless you have a very large amount of digital audio gear needing sync. Just a short cable should suffice here.

Which OS and Machine are you using? Mac Os? Not having experience with the devices you are using, I would imagine you'd have to create an "Aggregate Device" in Audio/MIDI setup, [if using Mac OS] so as to combine the I/O's of both units into one driver, when using Pro Tools. Unless their driver allows the use of multiple units. You have to check the Playback Driver in PT.

It might just show up as two separate options, not intertwined. Its been a while since I've had to futz with stuff like this, [because I don't trust it at all, as "Aggregate Device" is inherently flawed in terms of clock] But you can setup a slave and a master clock source via Audio/MIDI setup, between drivers using the Aggregate Device Editor. Then simply setup one unit to slave via BNC word clock from a master unit so you are locked together externally.
Old 19th May 2012
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
DMichaelJohnson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
It might just show up as two separate options, not intertwined. Its been a while since I've had to futz with stuff like this, [because I don't trust it at all, as "Aggregate Device" is inherently flawed in terms of clock] But you can setup a slave and a master clock source via Audio/MIDI setup, between drivers using the Aggregate Device Editor. Then simply setup one unit to slave via BNC word clock from a master unit so you are locked together externally.
Adam, this is very intriguing to me. You mention that "Aggregate Device" is inherently flawed as far as clocking is concerned. This is the first time I have come across this...could you elaborate?

Thanks~!
Old 19th May 2012
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMichaelJohnson View Post
Adam, this is very intriguing to me. You mention that "Aggregate Device" is inherently flawed as far as clocking is concerned. This is the first time I have come across this...could you elaborate?

Thanks~!
I do not think it operates correctly between the devices. I base my conjecture of years of testing it for people who want to use it. Beyond this, it is a true hog....a pure waste of power.

My experience is that if your using aggregate device, you are using a compromised system. I feel strongly that it is total whiskey, and I stay FAR away from it.

My view is that it is NOT a pro solution, it is hack shop rig, at best.

Use a less cumbersome solution
Old 19th May 2012
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
DMichaelJohnson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
I do not think it operates correctly between the devices. I base my conjecture of years of testing it for people who want to use it. Beyond this, it is a true hog....a pure waste of power.

My experience is that if your using aggregate device, you are using a compromised system. I feel strongly that it is total whiskey, and I stay FAR away from it.

My view is that it is NOT a pro solution, it is hack shop rig, at best.

Use a less cumbersome solution
Is there a work around in OSX to not have to use aggregate devices? I have 2 eight channel converters that stem into a Dangerous 2 bus. Is the only solution to get a 16 channel Lynx (or omething similar) to have a singular 16 channel device? Or is there some other way to avoid aggregate devices if one has 2 or 3 eight channel converters?
Old 20th May 2012
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMichaelJohnson View Post
Is there a work around in OSX to not have to use aggregate devices? I have 2 eight channel converters that stem into a Dangerous 2 bus. Is the only solution to get a 16 channel Lynx (or omething similar) to have a singular 16 channel device? Or is there some other way to avoid aggregate devices if one has 2 or 3 eight channel converters?
I have zero idea what hardware your using. I could guess, but that seems like a mis use of my sunday morning.

Instead I will give you more opinionated swahilli,

You want ONE pure digital interface on your computer.

You want ONE Driver to deal with.

If you require multi channel Converters, than I would suggest the best move is with them all in one box on internal clocking, but thats not realistic in many cases.

It is fine to use two, thrice Aurora's, just interface them with ONE method/protocol and clock them with short cables or a mastah klok box

ONE pure multichannel digital interface, is the best way to connect Multi-channel ada converters. There are several on the market.
Old 20th May 2012
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
DMichaelJohnson's Avatar
Thanks for the input on this fine Sunday morning...much appreciated.
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