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Hi-pass everything in a mix, too much ? DAW Software
Old 31st May 2006
  #1
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sedohr's Avatar
 

Hi-pass everything in a mix, too much ?

Hi guys

I was reading an old article in Keyboard called "Feng Sui Mixing" by Rob Hoffman, a guy with an impressive credit.
He says his mentors are Bruce Swedien and Chris Lord-Alge. His advice nr 1. is to hi-pass everything in a mix. Even kickdrum and bass.

Is this common, is this the hi-fi, million dollar way to do a mix. Does this result in too sterile, un-natural and super-polished mix or is it simply a good idea to keep your mix clean ?

Kalli
Old 31st May 2006
  #2
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Jeff16years's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sedohr

Is this common, is this the hi-fi, million dollar way to do a mix?
Kalli

A high pass filter shouldn't cost that much. they are often built in to pre amps or even mics.
I would say that if someone wants to charge a million dollard for a high pass, they are trying to rip you off. Don't go for it.

I high pass many things in a mix. Always bass, never kick.
Old 31st May 2006
  #3
Gear Nut
 

depends on the tracked sound, but yes, it does clean up. I use hipasses sometimes on kick between 50 and 100 hz and on basses up to 120hz. Well, but it depends ...
Old 31st May 2006
  #4
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Jason Poulin's Avatar
 

HPF's are great to clean up tracks. If they get too much sub lows in the track, they tend to muddy up the mix and sound boomy.


I always record trying to get the best lows on the tracks but when comes down to mixdown, you have to make each track work together therefore a good low end cleanup is needed for many tracks.


It's all part of the punch.


I wouldn't use a fixed HPF for this though... use something that varies the roll off so you can listen how it affects the rect of mix.





A good room and monitors will help here too. You need to be able to hear these things.



Good luck!


Jason
Old 31st May 2006
  #5
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meteor's Avatar
 

As little as possible... it's very easy to get carried away with HPF. The soul of a song can get lost if there isn't that interaction between tracks in the low end.

cheers,
Old 31st May 2006
  #6
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I wouldn't do it on kick or bass. Every once in a while a kick needs it because it has too much 20hz speaker killing sub so I put a steep filter in around 15-20. But bass I'm always putting sub in...most people have a pretty good low end on their stereos and they want to feel it. Pretty much everything else gets a little filter aroun 50-80 hz to get the rumble out.
-brian
Old 31st May 2006
  #7
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Beezoboy's Avatar
 

I use high passes (I am mixing in a daw) all the time. Bass gets it often because it just muds up the space for the kick. Guitars get it because they muck up the space for the bass. Kick never gets it. Maybe if I add verb to the kick, I'll hi-pass the verb, because its really the higher frequencies above 75 - 100hz I want anyway in the verb track. Also solo tracks don't need the lowend mud, so it gets cut there. Clean guitar rarely needs the mush below 100hz either.

So yes I hi-pass a lot of stuff, at least when mixing in a daw.

Beez
Old 31st May 2006
  #8
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Blast9's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedohr
Hi guys

I was reading an old article in Keyboard called "Feng Sui Mixing" by Rob Hoffman
Isn't that our very own robmix?
Old 31st May 2006
  #9
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I high pass everything EXCEPT the bass and the kick. I do it to leave room for the bass and kick.... then I high pass everything on my 2 buss. I use a frequency analyzer to see how much 2 buss high pass i need... comparing it to simliar reference songs.
Old 31st May 2006
  #10
Lives for gear
Conserve Bandwidth!

High-pass AND Low-pass everything. Of course, you gotta listen to what this does to the music and decide what points to apply.

This is why there are racks of parametric outboard. Have good monitoring and watch your fingers.

Don't mention this practice to wanna-be audiophools. Shhhhh.

Tinfoil hat and secret-club handshake :-)

Karl
Old 31st May 2006
  #11
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I hpf about everything.ill HPF the kick up to 20hz, but ill leave the bass alone. everything else, definitely high passed to taste.
Old 31st May 2006
  #12
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dreamsongs's Avatar
 

HP below 40-50hz, LP after 16k. Keeps the balance...
Old 31st May 2006
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sedohr
Hi guys

I was reading an old article in Keyboard called "Feng Sui Mixing" by Rob Hoffman, a guy with an impressive credit.
He says his mentors are Bruce Swedien and Chris Lord-Alge. His advice nr 1. is to hi-pass everything in a mix. Even kickdrum and bass.

Kalli
No, it's not a good idea to do so, especially not when applying the high pass filter on the mix bus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sedohr
Hi guys
Is this common, is this the hi-fi, million dollar way to do a mix. Does this result in too sterile, un-natural and super-polished mix or is it simply a good idea to keep your mix clean ?
Kalli
As far as I know it's extremely common. It results in a loud and sterile mix. Simply put, a boring mix...
Old 31st May 2006
  #14
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What are his other advices?!
Old 31st May 2006
  #15
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Kestral's Avatar
 

How about posting the article (or a link to the article)?
Old 31st May 2006
  #16
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by meteor
it's very easy to get carried away with HPF. The soul of a song can get lost if there isn't that interaction between tracks in the low end.

Exactly - for some things I like a a slight shelf better than a hi-pass. I want to keep the low extension of some tracks, just not as much of it.


recently, I made room in the mix for the really low end on an organ track. It would have been easier to do the same old same old and just high pass the organ - I had to do a lot of jugglng with the bass and kick, but I think it was worth it.

Its all about making room and not letting any single frequency build up, but there's a million ways to go about it.
Old 1st June 2006
  #17
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u b k's Avatar
 

just be aware that he was talking about a LOW-corner-freq hipass on a sweet analog channel strip. he was not advocating the use of a plugin hpf on every track, nor was he talking about rolling that puppy up to 300hz on everything. just something to eliminate the ass end rumble and woof that eats up headroom and clarity.

iow, no need for the sub-70hz whumps on the triple stacked acoustics!


gregoire
del ubik
Old 1st June 2006
  #18
M2E
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M2E's Avatar
 

I have to comment on this one as this point in a mix is very important.
When I first started mixing on Analog boards (Neotek,SSL,Mackie) I never would high pass. I always noticed that I never had the headroom nor the impact that I do now that I highpass. I now mix ITB with some outboard but, my HPF's are ITB. It's does not matter whether it's a Neve HPF or a digi HPF. They both do the same thing in the mix and you won't hear much of a difference...sorry. It does matter how much the Filter/EQ cuts. Some cut only at a -6db/-12db slant, some at -12db to 24db (more common) but, I've seen some that can cut to -48db-Dam!!! You have to know what your doing before you do it. Meaning that when you put it on every track first use it at it's very lowest and start moving it up slowly until you cut what you want out of the sound or until the sound, sounds right for you. Use the HPF first if your in Pro Tools or in a DAW then, use whatever compressor your going to use so that the compressor won't try to compress those unwanted freq's. Then eq if need be.
Depends on the type of song you are mixing when it comes to HPF's as well and how you use them.
Nowadays, Rock/Hip Hop are both needing that bottom end as well as R&B.
On Kicks I usually divide up a kick into three parts if I'm doing a real mix with real money...hahaha.
1st kick- I LPF to around 80hz..this is just for that bottom end to stick out and have some tale to it. That chest pounding bump, then the second kick- I HPF off up to 80hz and LPF to around, if I can remember since I'm not at the cpu, 400 to 500hz...I think..sorry. I will verify when I get in the studio. The third kick I HPF off up to 500hz and I don't LPF it at all. I then mix the three to taste as well and compress them and if needed eq. I don't do this all the time as this is an old mix secert but, I use it when the kick just doesn't have it or the snare needs it as well.
That's one way I use the HPF as well as the LPF's. I use them all the time but, not always on all tracks. It's just not needed on hihat's and shakers and marktrees and such unless it was recorded badly.

Hope this helps

M2E
Old 1st June 2006
  #19
Gear addict
 

it realy depends on the type of mix your going for.. most of the stuff I end up working with I high pass everything.. kick at like 30.. just to stop it from killing any speakers... thats realy a just in case measure.. everything else is variable depending on the song and the sound.. however make sure your using a good sounding highpass.. I usualy end up using the plpareq1 for this.. I got it when it was a freebie.. anyone who didn't REALY missed out :p
Old 1st June 2006
  #20
Gear interested
 

i would say it really depends on the type of music and the sound that you are going for.

For most tracks I work on I try to find a way for the kick and bass to sit nicely together and below / with everything else. Sometimes the kick will be below the bass sometmes above and sometimes if what they are doing works they will sit together or sidechained out of the way. it all depends. so like most things I would say that there is no set rule and that like posted above you have to choose what fits your sound and the track itself. Monitors would be key with this, but also just thinking about what the kick and bass are playing and how they fit together.
Old 1st June 2006
  #21
Highpass everything?

Is a good thing, i think, it´s clears things up. Ofcourse one tends to go easy on bassy stuff but in my general view more people should use High and Lowpass filters more and mix with e.q in mind not only level of full bandwidth sources.

Just as you have just so much headroom to use, you better share the frequency spectrum as well. Regards to all! /Toby
Old 1st June 2006
  #22
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Alexi's Avatar
 

i usually highpass my mix @ 40hz..........e-guitars sometimes at around 100 hz......
Old 1st June 2006
  #23
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Marjan's Avatar
 

Hi-Pass the 2 Bus...?
Why not leave that to the Mastering engineer?
Old 1st June 2006
  #24
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High pass on the mix bus here too. Around 30-50 Hz, usually. Mostly acoustic music, not a lot of deep bass or kick tracks. It's just a convenient way to get the whole mix clean, without a lot of chasing around. Of course I'll filter individual tracks as needed, but not as much as I used to have to before HPF on the stereo bus.

Lets me easily add more selective bass to the whole mix where and when I want, can get a lot of power this way.

I'll also Low pass on the mix as needed. "Tone control".

Steve
Old 1st June 2006
  #25
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pingu's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezoboy
I use high passes (I am mixing in a daw) all the time. Bass gets it often because it just muds up the space for the kick. Guitars get it because they muck up the space for the bass. Kick never gets it. Maybe if I add verb to the kick, I'll hi-pass the verb, because its really the higher frequencies above 75 - 100hz I want anyway in the verb track. Also solo tracks don't need the lowend mud, so it gets cut there. Clean guitar rarely needs the mush below 100hz either.

So yes I hi-pass a lot of stuff, at least when mixing in a daw.

Beez

Me too.

All of the time.

I even have one in the master fader between 15 and 40

Of course its not done by rote.
Old 1st June 2006
  #26
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Eide's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marjan
Hi-Pass the 2 Bus...?
Why not leave that to the Mastering engineer?
It really affects the way you hit the 2bus comp.
Old 1st June 2006
  #27
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jindrich's Avatar
 

hi-passing almost every channel except for bass or BD is the way Swedien mixed "Thriller" on a Harrison.

The disc is the most sold ever and it sounds killer.

YMMV.

PS: he used low-passing as well.
Old 1st June 2006
  #28
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pulse_divider's Avatar
 

How many of you do this in mixing versus tracking?
Most people use outboard pres with HP filters nowadays, do you think it makes sense to just take care of it at the source?
I record to Radar and usually just HPF on my pre before it hits the Radar. This way I don't have to switch in the whole EQ circuit on my board if I just want to roll off a little of the low, low end.
Old 1st June 2006
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulse_divider
How many of you do this in mixing versus tracking?
I rarely use HPF on mics, and my preamps don't have them. For me, I just usually don't like the tonal change from a fixed rolloff on input.

So I might use slight low shelf reductions on some tracks, then HPF on the analog stereo bus first thing, before it hits the 2-bus compressor.

Steve
Old 2nd June 2006
  #30


I hope you high-pass everything - DC offset is a bad thing to record!



-tINY

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