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Whats the best approach for checking your mix in mono?
Old 27th May 2006
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
Tom Sigmond's Avatar
 

Whats the best approach for checking your mix in mono?

Hey,



I was reading this other thread about the importance of checking your mixes in mono.
It was said that its better to use a different one mono speaker for this one purpose instead of your stereo-pair making them sound mono with the knob on your mixer.

I'm using JBL LRS 6328 monitors with the sub (just for checking the lows).
Is it a good idea to ad a third 6328 for the center position or is it better to use a different speaker? Maybe a three way is best for this purpose or even maybe a PA monitor?

Becausse I'm into dance-music its extreamly important for me the mix will translate in mono. (Thtats why I also ask if a PA center monitor could be the way to go)

I was thinking to ad a stero pair of ADAM S3 a's or the K&H 0300D to my setup.
Could it be a good idea to just buy one of these just for the center position?
Or is just a crappy speaker enough for that purpose?

As always, your help would be very apprichiated.



Thanks.


greetings, Tom
Old 27th May 2006
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Sigmond
Hey,



I was reading this other thread about the importance of checking your mixes in mono.
It was said that its better to use a different one mono speaker for this one purpose instead of your stereo-pair making them sound mono with the knob on your mixer.

I'm using JBL LRS 6328 monitors with the sub (just for checking the lows).
Is it a good idea to ad a third 6328 for the center position or is it better to use a different speaker? Maybe a three way is best for this purpose or even maybe a PA monitor?

Becausse I'm into dance-music its extreamly important for me the mix will translate in mono. (Thtats why I also ask if a PA center monitor could be the way to go)

I was thinking to ad a stero pair of ADAM S3 a's or the K&H 0300D to my setup.
Could it be a good idea to just buy one of these just for the center position?
Or is just a crappy speaker enough for that purpose?

As always, your help would be very apprichiated.



Thanks.


greetings, Tom
There are of course no written laws about this. But one way of doing it is actually to use both a fast-mono check and a deep-mono check approach. With the fast-mono check you are doing it in the same control room with the same speakers and run the material out in mono in both speakers (even though they don't translate the signal identically). With the deep-mono check you listen to the mix in a different room and only in one speaker. Then you can decide how to implement these procedures in an efficient way within your mixing model.
Old 27th May 2006
  #3
Gear Nut
 

Checking your mix in mono, what a perfect concept. Yes we all must check our mixes in mono and determine whether or not they are acceptable, but that is it. CHECK in mono, cuz we sure as hell don't mix in it these days. Oh by the way, to check your mix in mono, just hit the button that says mono. It works quite well.


I don't mean to be derrogative but this is getting rediculous. MIX for the medium that your audience listens in, because you have to compromise somewhere, and making more compromises than are necessary will hurt your final product.
Old 27th May 2006
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
Haigbabe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andymixer
Checking your mix in mono, what a perfect concept. Yes we all must check our mixes in mono and determine whether or not they are acceptable, but that is it. CHECK in mono, cuz we sure as hell don't mix in it these days. Oh by the way, to check your mix in mono, just hit the button that says mono. It works quite well.


I don't mean to be derrogative but this is getting rediculous. MIX for the medium that your audience listens in, because you have to compromise somewhere, and making more compromises than are necessary will hurt your final product.
Something like 60% of music is heard on clock radios.

It pays therefore to have a mix that works in mono.

It's a good subject and deserves attention.

Cheers,

Haigbabe
Old 27th May 2006
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andymixer
Checking your mix in mono, what a perfect concept. Yes we all must check our mixes in mono and determine whether or not they are acceptable, but that is it. CHECK in mono, cuz we sure as hell don't mix in it these days. Oh by the way, to check your mix in mono, just hit the button that says mono. It works quite well.


I don't mean to be derrogative but this is getting rediculous. MIX for the medium that your audience listens in, because you have to compromise somewhere, and making more compromises than are necessary will hurt your final product.
Of course you can and should mix during the "fast-mono" check as well. That's part of why you could split this process into two. One for fast checking and customizing. Another for analyzing and confirming.

Regarding if it's worth it or not I won't go into that in this thread. A lot of information has been written about this in the following thread:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/71941-mix-mono-just-little.html
Old 27th May 2006
  #6
Lives for gear
 
XSergeantD's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haigbabe
Something like 60% of music is heard on clock radios.
and 84.3749% of statistics are made up on the spot. C'mon, you're saying people listen to their clock radio more often than their car stereo, Ipods, walkmans, stereo systems and music channels off their stereo TVs?

Press the mono button, cut the left or right channel and there's your mono mix. But if that stat is correct, then one should go out and get a Horrortone, sorry, Auratone and check your mono mix with that.
Old 27th May 2006
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
Tom Sigmond's Avatar
 

I have a reference track that I really like.
Its a club banger and was hot in 2005.
The mix is done very and I mean very well.
In the studio of this producer there is one big fat speaker
dead center behind his mixing console.

Its a different type of speaker as his stereo pair and its very big and ugly but it seems its there for a clear purpose.

Maybe its better mixing first in mono before you spreathing it into stereo. It makes sence to me but I'm only guessing right now.

It seems the opinions here are divided.


gr. Tom
Old 27th May 2006
  #8
Gear Maniac
Anyone in the next room is hearing the TV or boombox in mono. XM piped in at the pizza place. People don't always just sit there and listen to music. I had the experience of hearing one channel of "Aqualung" at Ledo's a couple of months ago because an employee never hit the "mono" button on their amp.
Old 27th May 2006
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Honestly I think that not checking for mono compatibility is among the biggest mistakes you can do in mixing...! This is really what separates the professionals from the semi-professionals. It has nothing to do with the fact that some consume the mix in mono... It has to do with the fact that you are mixing in stereo...!
Old 27th May 2006
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Sigmond
I have a reference track that I really like.
Its a club banger and was hot in 2005.
The mix is done very and I mean very well.
In the studio of this producer there is one big fat speaker
dead center behind his mixing console.

Its a different type of speaker as his stereo pair and its very big and ugly but it seems its there for a clear purpose.

Maybe its better mixing first in mono before you spreathing it into stereo. It makes sence to me but I'm only guessing right now.

It seems the opinions here are divided.


gr. Tom
no they're not. club music (vinyl? PA) requires a different production and monitoring.
different medium....
Old 27th May 2006
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Sigmond
Maybe its better mixing first in mono before you spreathing it into stereo. It makes sence to me but I'm only guessing right now.
Both yes and no, it depends on what you do in mono...
Old 27th May 2006
  #12
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haigbabe
Something like 60% of music is heard on clock radios.
This is worded as though 60% of the time that music is played it is done so via a clock radio. Not even close. As already mentioned, in the age of car stereos, iPods and iTunes, "clock radios" are used quite infrequently, unless you're willing to add Bose and "docked" iPods, which are stereo. Even some clock radios are stereo, actually.
Old 28th May 2006
  #13
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
I have three sets of monitors in my room.

A set of Dynaudios right over the console & I can hit the mono button in the center section of the desk & I've got mono!

There's also a pair of Rat Shack minimus 7's stacked on each other & I stuck those over in the corner behind the console & to the right...about 6-7 feet from me. It's stereo coming out but by the time it hits my ears, it's mono.

Finally there's a tiny speaker in the meter bridge of the Studer A80MkII RC 2-track that sounds like complete poo but reveals LOTS of things about a mix.

If the mix sounds good on all three sets of speakers it'll travel to just about anything from some earbuds to the largest concert systems.

For a mono check its nice to have high end speakers & do about 70-80% of the 'work' on them...but I really dig having the lowest common denomintor speakers for a mono check.

MTV might broadcast in stereo but by the time it bounces from satellite to satellite & goes through a bajillion connectors on the way to little Jimmy's TV somewhere in the middle of west bumfuk Omaha and he hears YOUR mix coming out of the 3" speakers in the TV set...

It's pretty much mono.
Old 28th May 2006
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
Haigbabe's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elambo
This is worded as though 60% of the time that music is played it is done so via a clock radio. Not even close.
I'm quoting statistics supplied by the ABS, 2004-2005.

What are your sources for refuting this figure?

Cheers,

Haigbabe
Old 28th May 2006
  #15
Lives for gear
I just hit the mono button and mute the right speaker.
Old 28th May 2006
  #16
Lives for gear
 
XSergeantD's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs
Finally there's a tiny speaker in the meter bridge of the Studer A80MkII RC 2-track that sounds like complete poo but reveals LOTS of things about a mix.
That meterbridge speaker really is awesome for checking mono. Gotta keep the A80's in the room just for that purpose, even if the clients aren't printing to tape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haigbabe
I'm quoting statistics supplied by the ABS, 2004-2005.

What are your sources for refuting this figure?
Not trying to get on you, but I think he's using logic.
I went to abs.gov.au to try to find your stats, but came up empty - I'm not saying it's not there, my searches just came up empty. I'd just like to see the stats because that sounds completely waaaaaaaay off. Might you have it confused with broadcast music? And even then I'd find that hard to swallow sheerely by the amount of time we spend in our autos.
I'm not trying to make this a flame war, but does that stat sounds realistic to you?

'this post has been broadcast in mono for your enjoyment'
-peace-
Old 28th May 2006
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
knightsy's Avatar
 

As mentioned in the other thread, when FM radio drops out from stereo to mono, the Side channel of that Mid/Side broadcast is the one that gets sacrificed. So any out of phase stuff will vanish. I'd say it's worth checking just for that contingency.

Or does everybody have perfect radio reception everywhere they drive?
Old 28th May 2006
  #18
Gear Head
 
Mr. Incredible's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andymixer
MIX for the medium that your audience listens in...
Well, he did say, "Because I'm into dance-music its extreamly important for me the mix will translate in mono."

And even if he didn't, I'm not sure any kind of genuine inquiry into improving ones skills is deserving of such sarcasm, condenscension.

The only thing that seems ridiculous is why someone who supposably has a lot of experience would still be so insecure that they would have to belittle someone trying to learn.

Paying attention to mono has different weight depending on your delivery medium and genre, etc., but it's certainly a valid discussion and a useful technique.
Old 28th May 2006
  #19
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doorknocker's Avatar
I bought a Tivoli Audio Mono Radio for my kitchen and it ended up in my control room hooked up to my SPL 2381 Monitor Controller.

Using Genelec 1029As as my main stereo monitors I actually use the Tivoli to check the BASS.

It's hardly a new concept but I start my mix in stereo to get a basic panning picture and then switch to mono. It's great for checking phase and do the 'fine-panning' i.e finding the spot where each element of the mix has the greatest impact with the least amount of gain or EQ boost.

And it's so satisfying to hit the stereo button and hear your mix in glorious stereo........and start all over again......
Old 28th May 2006
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
knightsy's Avatar
 

It feels really good to switch back and forth between your stereo monitors and your mono speaker too! Gives your ears a rest.
Old 28th May 2006
  #21
Lives for gear
 

I use Cubase SX, and I was gutted when they removed the mono button. I think they did this at SX2, when all audio channels and buses became multi-channel capable.

The best solution is to use the Surround 6-to-1 mixer plugin. It's better than a mono button, because you get to choose between speakers.

You can do it with panning, if you have the dual fader panner enable. But there are two problems with that:

1 - depending on your pan law setting, you might need to attentuate by 6dB as well to avoid clipping, and

2 - you can't easy toggle between stereo and mono


Personally, i've given up trying to convince people to check for mono compatibility. I figure it cuts out a bit of competition to myself.
Old 29th May 2006
  #22
Gear Guru
 
u b k's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andymixer
CHECK in mono, cuz we sure as hell don't mix in it these days.

a whole lot of big names, and a whole lot of non-names such as myself, are on record as spending a lot of time at low volume, with one speaker, in mono.

mixing, not checking.

i know a lot of folks around here herald CLA and TLA as some benchmark of modern mix achievement. i am not one of them, i find their mixes hyped, overprocessed, and completely lacking in any intimacy or authenticity... the campbell's soup of music production. but it's a style as valid as any other, and i am not the style police, just a guy with different tastes.

who loves to mix in mono.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 30th May 2006
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
Tom Sigmond's Avatar
 

I'm thinking of adding a ADAM S3A for the center position instead of a third 6328.
It seems to be very accurate and in the meanwhile I have another reference.

Is this a good idea, I mean, is it worth the money this (third) center speaker just for checking mono and is it a good idea to pick another speaker for that purpose instead of the same 6328p for that matter?



Thanks.


gr. Tom
Old 30th May 2006
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Sigmond
I'm thinking of adding a ADAM S3A for the center position instead of a third 6328.
It seems to be very accurate and in the meanwhile I have another reference.

Is this a good idea, I mean, is it worth the money this (third) center speaker just for checking mono and is it a good idea to pick another speaker for that purpose instead of the same 6328p for that matter?



Thanks.


gr. Tom
I wouldn't do that, myself, the Adam tweeter is very different and will make your brain do loopings. (IMO)
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