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Behringer X32 for live use
Old 19th April 2012
  #1
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Behringer X32 for live use

The Behringer X32 is coming out this summer and my church which had a tight budget is looking at the new Behringer digital mixer. I used to have their DDX3216 and it was a decent mixer for it's price. Now that Behringer purchased Midas, the pre's, effects, and converters should be a nice upgrade from the old Behringer stuff. I know Behringer is not high end gear, but if everything works the way it should, it could be a great option. It also has a P-16 personal monitoring system for it as well which would be really nice. Everyone on stage would have their own little mixer. No full manual yet, but I will be looking into it and will report back. Hopefully if you purchase it from a company like Sweetwater, the church will have at least 3 weeks to try it out and make sure it is up to the quality we want. I saw it at the AES show last year and was pretty impressed. It is a bigger console than the photos make it out to be.
Old 19th April 2012
  #2
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On paper, it looks good. I saw it at NAMM as well.

However, of all the manufacturers, jumping in first on a Behringer digital console isn't something I'd do for a HOW - there's bound to be bugs, issues and fixes. At that price point it seems cheap, but that's exactly what I'd be worried about -- you don't see Yamaha or Presonus offering something at that price, which means corners have been cut, etc.

I would suggest waiting at least 6-9 months for other early adopters to figure out the problems and major firmware updates before upgrading. If you really need a new console, if the StudioLive 24 isn't enough channels, 2 01v96's paired together would be an excellent alternative.
Old 19th April 2012
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedorama View Post
On paper, it looks good. I saw it at NAMM as well.

However, of all the manufacturers, jumping in first on a Behringer digital console isn't something I'd do for a HOW - there's bound to be bugs, issues and fixes. At that price point it seems cheap, but that's exactly what I'd be worried about -- you don't see Yamaha or Presonus offering something at that price, which means corners have been cut, etc.

I would suggest waiting at least 6-9 months for other early adopters to figure out the problems and major firmware updates before upgrading. If you really need a new console, if the StudioLive 24 isn't enough channels, 2 01v96's paired together would be an excellent alternative.
I agree about firmware updates. I want to see this thing being stable. I am thinking with Behringer buying Midas, Behringer did not have to spend as much money on R&D for this mixer if they were only doing it with their knowledge by starting from the DDX. They mentioned several areas where they got supportive information from Midas and that other company they purchased. Though I have not tried the unit, it seems to be actually better than the Tascam DM 3200. The faders appear better, features bigger including sub group faders, and the effects should be better than the Tascam.
Old 19th April 2012
  #4
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I would not expect that a lot of knowledge flowed from Midas to Behringer, as Midas doesn't make anything in that price range. Behringer also gets lots of "supportive information" by copying other company's designs, but not always fully understanding them.
Edit: Midas did give them the design for the mic pre for this console, so it's Midas designed for this pricepoint . wouldn't expect it to sound like a Midas board. I believe Midas also offered their digital protocol for the snake.

Again, this mixer might be a great value, but reliability isn't this company's strong point. I don't know enough about the Tascam to compare the two.

On something like this, I'd wait for the Sound on Sound mag report, and then wait another 9 months for long term reliability reports from other users. As i mentioned before, there are other more stable options.

Last edited by nedorama; 19th April 2012 at 08:34 PM.. Reason: clarification of Midas involvement in X32
Old 19th April 2012
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedorama View Post
On something like this, I'd wait for the Sound on Sound mag report, and then wait another 9 months for long term reliability reports from other users. As i mentioned before, there are other more stable options.
What other options are there with 32 channels and under $6,000? Yes I will await for the SOS review. We will not be making any purchase until late fall.
Old 19th April 2012
  #6
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2 01v96i's can be linked together for 32 channels and is well under $6,000.
2 Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2's can be linked together for 32 channels and is well under $6,000.
Tascam DM3200 Digital mixer is under $6,000, as is the DM4800.

At this price point, A lot of live sound folks will link together 2 mixers - if one goes down, you can repatch and still get a show done.

With Yamaha's new CL series announced, you may even be able to get a deal on a LS9-32; currently new at $8399, would imagine this price will be discounted very soon. This would also get you a fader per channel, mature technology & platform, and industry standard expansion ports.
Old 20th April 2012
  #7
[QUOTE=nedorama;7798156]2 01v96i's can be linked together for 32 channels and is well under $6,000.
2 Presonus StudioLive 16.4.2's can be linked together for 32 channels and is well under $6,000.
Tascam DM3200 Digital mixer is under $6,000, as is the DM4800.

At this price point, A lot of live sound folks will link together 2 mixers - if one goes down, you can repatch and still get a show done.

With Yamaha's new CL series announced, you may even be able to get a deal on a LS9-32; currently new at $8399, would imagine this price will be discounted very soon. This would also get you a fader per channel, mature technology & platform, and industry standard expansion ports.[/

For me personally I don't like the 01V96 as there are not enough dedicated buttons. DM 1000 is not much better though it has better faders and a meter bridge. The Yamaha LS9-32 would be a great option if the price is right.
Old 20th April 2012
  #8
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I wouldn't care if Behringer bought out Neve - I am never purchasing their chinese-made junk that fills our US landfills.
Old 22nd April 2012
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Real MC View Post
I wouldn't care if Behringer bought out Neve - I am never purchasing their chinese-made junk that fills our US landfills.
They are making the Midas Pro2 in Behringer City. I can say for me I think that:
1. If the preamps on the X32 are half decent they will be better than any Yamaha below a 5D.
2. The LS9 has no VCA/DCA grouping...deal breaker for me on an upgrade.
3. The Presonus sounds good but again, no VCA's, no mute groups, 2 mediocre effects....can't do a real production without outboard.
4. None of these options include a digital snake.
5. If I am gonna have to buy a Chinese product I would rather buy it from someone who has been doing it for a long time and has spent big bucks on state of the art tools and more importantly has had time to get it's communication and labor relations stable. The first run of Allen Heath Chinese stuff is crap IMO.
Old 22nd April 2012
  #10
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Aisle 6's Avatar
[QUOTE=Glenn Bucci;7798890]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nedorama View Post
With Yamaha's new CL series announced, you may even be able to get a deal on a LS9-32; currently new at $8399, would imagine this price will be discounted very soon.
I would not bank on the LS9 being discounted as it sits in a very different price point to the CL series. There is currently no talk of Yamaha shifting the LS9 line downstream anytime soon.

[QUOTE=Glenn Bucci;7798890]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nedorama View Post
For me personally I don't like the 01V96 as there are not enough dedicated buttons. DM 1000 is not much better though it has better faders and a meter bridge. The Yamaha LS9-32 would be a great option if the price is right.
I agree...+100
Old 22nd April 2012
  #11
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how much is a soundcraft si compact going for where you are? i use an si1 where i work and love it
Old 22nd April 2012
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindjoni View Post
They are making the Midas Pro2 in Behringer City. I can say for me I think that:
1. If the preamps on the X32 are half decent they will be better than any Yamaha below a 5D.
2. The LS9 has no VCA/DCA grouping...deal breaker for me on an upgrade.
3. The Presonus sounds good but again, no VCA's, no mute groups, 2 mediocre effects....can't do a real production without outboard.
4. None of these options include a digital snake.
5. If I am gonna have to buy a Chinese product I would rather buy it from someone who has been doing it for a long time and has spent big bucks on state of the art tools and more importantly has had time to get it's communication and labor relations stable. The first run of Allen Heath Chinese stuff is crap IMO.
The new a&h stuff is total JUNK!! Its unbelievable how ****ty the new chinese stuff is. I bet ive seen a half dozen a&h mixers break in the last year and never once before that.

They also came out with two new dj mixers that are total junk.


Dont buy chinese a&h until they take care of some problems.
Old 22nd April 2012
  #13
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Your experience is opposite of mine. We've been doing five to 12 live broadcasts a week using an A&H ZED 436, it's worked well and sounds as good as our Neve.

My only complaint is the inbuilt digital encoder in the ZED series is not that great but I did not buy it for that and that part is easy to avoid.

The slide faders are not industrial strength, but we're careful with them and have had no problems.

Years ago I was an A&H dealer. The more I got to know the sound of their older products the more I thought they had power supply design problems that caused poor headroom and distortion. That made me reluctant to try one of their newer pieces but my fears were unfounded, I've enjoyed our ZED a lot.

I don't do any DJ stuff so I have no idea about A&H DJ products.

With all that said, I think the new X32 Behringer mixer is going to be a game changer. The combination of this product and their new distributed monitor mixing system is going to be a real boon to artists creating music. Behringer may have bought Midas but their German engineers were quite capable of doing the X32 without Midas. I've been watching the X32 evolve and it's going to be a very well thought out component that is going to be MASS PRODUCED. It will be everywhere, nothing can touch the performance for anywhere near the price. It's got Yamaha running scared already (seen their posturing ads in magazines?). Presonus better have moving faders soon or it's bye-bye once the X32 hits.

Good music to all!
Old 22nd April 2012
  #14
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I would have a look at the StudioLive 16.0.2. The only difference between this mixer and it's bigger brother is the lack of busses, number of auxiliary sends (four vs. ten) and the actual size of the mixer.
Old 22nd April 2012
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foldback View Post
Your experience is opposite of mine. We've been doing five to 12 live broadcasts a week using an A&H ZED 436, it's worked well and sounds as good as our Neve.

My only complaint is the inbuilt digital encoder in the ZED series is not that great but I did not buy it for that and that part is easy to avoid.

The slide faders are not industrial strength, but we're careful with them and have had no problems.

Years ago I was an A&H dealer. The more I got to know the sound of their older products the more I thought they had power supply design problems that caused poor headroom and distortion. That made me reluctant to try one of their newer pieces but my fears were unfounded, I've enjoyed our ZED a lot.

I don't do any DJ stuff so I have no idea about A&H DJ products.

With all that said, I think the new X32 Behringer mixer is going to be a game changer. The combination of this product and their new distributed monitor mixing system is going to be a real boon to artists creating music. Behringer may have bought Midas but their German engineers were quite capable of doing the X32 without Midas. I've been watching the X32 evolve and it's going to be a very well thought out component that is going to be MASS PRODUCED. It will be everywhere, nothing can touch the performance for anywhere near the price. It's got Yamaha running scared already (seen their posturing ads in magazines?). Presonus better have moving faders soon or it's bye-bye once the X32 hits.

Good music to all!
Again, until we see actual reviews from real sources (like Sound on Sound) as well as established people who have spent time on this, it's all conjecture.

What's not is that Behringer has a spotty record when it comes to quality control, and much of that is because their price points target the bottom feeders. $2599 for a 32 channel digital means corners have been cut; it will just have to see what corners they cut and if they make a difference.

Behringer's customer service is not known for being even "good;" having to deal with a complex digital mixer like the X32 would challenge any cust service group, moreso them.

If 6 months after release there's no problems and Behringer releases firmware updates to correct issues, great; until then, I don't see Yamaha, Presonus or A&H quaking.
Old 23rd April 2012
  #16
I bet this board will kill. Behringer isn't the same company from 10 years ago. I mixed over 250 shows on an ALL behringer system and got more props than I can count. Behringer has manufacturing experience. When they farmed out their work in the beginning they took a lot of heat for premature failures. Since building their own insane factory QC is much more controllable.

As far as copying other designs, that's another discussion. I will say that my Behringer served me a lot more reliably that the Mackie I had before it...and whether it was my skill or the gear it DID sound good night after night.

FWIW I get the same raves with my Presonus Studiolive 16.4.2 now, and IMO the pres on the Presonus smoke anything Yamaha. The LS9 is like an Altair box compared to the Presonus where ergonomics is concerned, and using Waves Mulitirack natively is just fantastic.

A little bird told me there will be a 42 channel Presonus board very soon if you have the time to wait. Two 16.4.2's makes a great 32ch option too.

If the Behringer fit the bill, was available and fit the budget I wouldn't hesitate to pick one up. I guarantee capable hands and ears will produce stunning mixes with it. I doubt it will be any less reliable than any other manufacturer whose stuff ships from China. In fact, it may even be more reliable.

It's easy to jump on the Behringer bashing bandwagon but I know way too many WORKING musicians who made/make great use of their gear night after night...beer spill after beer spill. At their price point and 50% higher nobody does it better.
Old 23rd April 2012
  #17
RightOn dude !!....This mixer has my attention big time..

on a side note how do you use
Quote:
Waves Mulitirack natively
with your 16.4?

I have a 16.4.2 ..and its amazing ..especially with my ipad
Old 23rd April 2012
  #18
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The good thing is that hopefully Behringer realizes they have a lot of perception issues to overcome with this mixer. I hope that this does turn them around back to when they made good stuff in Europe.

that being said, buying ANY new digital mixer at that price point from anyone in the first 6 months if it's their first version of that console is a risky move, be it behringer, Presonus, the new Mackie iPad mixer or the Line 6 digital mixer. All have some interesting things going for them but time will tell.
Old 23rd April 2012
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightOnRome View Post
RightOn dude !!....This mixer has my attention big time..

on a side note how do you use waves rack
with your 16.4?

looked it up .. pretty cool i was thinking of using protools10 like that ..sorry back to x32
Old 23rd April 2012
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightOnRome View Post
looked it up .. pretty cool i was thinking of using protools10 like that ..sorry back to x32

It's worth the price. With my macbook pro i7 quad multirack runs like a dream at 32 sample buffer with no noticable latency and I can use the waves stuff in place of the fat channel. Try the SSL channel strip on each channel and see the differnce. not sure why this isn't talked about more. For me it was a game changer.
Old 23rd April 2012
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Category 5 View Post
It's worth the price. With my macbook pro i7 quad multirack runs like a dream at 32 sample buffer with no noticable latency and I can use the waves stuff in place of the fat channel. Try the SSL channel strip on each channel and see the differnce. not sure why this isn't talked about more. For me it was a game changer.
thanks for the heads up! .. what is the difference between the rack and just enabling PT plugs ..then firewire in back ..does it do it with less latency?
Old 24th April 2012
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightOnRome View Post
thanks for the heads up! .. what is the difference between the rack and just enabling PT plugs ..then firewire in back ..does it do it with less latency?
Yeah. It's just a dsp client for live use so it can run at waaay lower buffers even with a slew of processors running. It's simply a send/return vst rack that you can assign to each channel. Just hit the firewire button on the studiolive and you get a send/return with undetectable latency. It basically inserts the Waves plugins before the fat channel. you can use the Fat channel simultaneously in fact.

Too bad you can't use non-waves VST plugins. I'd love to be using vcc and trigger live too, but Waves has most of the bases covered otherwise. Simply using the SSL channel has been incredible for me. Most of the Waves plugins add very little to no latency of their own too, so it's perfect.

A little tip, if you want plugins on the master then use the control room out to feed the mains. Select firewire return on the control room and disable main, otherwise you will get the pre and post send together. It's the only way to get post return out to the mains since the main fader will always output the pre send signal.
Old 24th April 2012
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedorama View Post
hopefully Behringer realizes they have a lot of perception issues to overcome
I've heard this every year for the last ten years. Not easily convinced.
Old 24th April 2012
  #24
PDC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamlive View Post
The new a&h stuff is total JUNK!! Its unbelievable how ****ty the new chinese stuff is. I bet ive seen a half dozen a&h mixers break in the last year and never once before that.

They also came out with two new dj mixers that are total junk.


Dont buy chinese a&h until they take care of some problems.
Compare apples to apples. The GLD will mop the floor with a Yamaha LS9. The new QSC console is said to one up the GLD and the Yamaha LS9.

The problem with Behringer is that dealers are worried about support and customers being willing to spend that kind of money on a Behringer. Behringer should have made this a cheap Midas, or started a third middle-tier line. My boss is waiting for Behringer to get all of the bugs worked out, and to see if support and parts supply happens.

Behringer is already spinning things. They just increased their warranty to three years, and they say that they have one of the best reliability records in the industry. HAH!
Old 24th April 2012
  #25
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The QSC console (with design input from Greg Mackie) is the one I'm interested to see/hear. Not for me, but just to see what comes from them working together. For live, a used 01v works great for me, especially at $350.
Old 24th April 2012
  #26
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Last edited by erikdrink; 24th April 2012 at 05:12 AM.. Reason: Wrong thread!
Old 25th April 2012
  #27
PDC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedorama View Post
The QSC console (with design input from Greg Mackie) is the one I'm interested to see/hear. Not for me, but just to see what comes from them working together. For live, a used 01v works great for me, especially at $350.
I think Greg Mackie and company had some conceptual and user interface ideas, but QSC basically put Q-Sys in console form. The console is XEON processor based, and is being beta tested now. So, if people are worried about it sound like a Mackie product, forget it. It's all QSC under the hood.
Old 25th April 2012
  #28
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Not worried at all about Greg Mackie's input - Mackie put out solid stuff when he was there; when it became LOUD Technologies is when IMO things started to suffer.

GLD's are just hitting users now and so far people are very impressed.
Old 13th August 2012
  #29
Great review from Sound on Sound on the X32. Pre's, converters, effects, and quality of the board appear to be high.
Old 3rd February 2013
  #30
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Mono Effects

Hi Everybody, I'm new to this site.

I've been trying to find an answer to one of my major questions but I can't seem to find it anywhere...

When you're running effects on the Behringer X32, I understand that you have 8 Stereo Racks of processing. However, can you set those to mono? - For example, I want 16 mono effects, and have 16 different processors running those 16 effects. I want to know if this is possible.

Also, I just wanted to mention that I do not want to set a compressor to channel 4 and 5 and have them be the same compressor with different parameters. I want to be able to set one compressor for its own parameters and have a different compressors with its on parameters.

Thanks!
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