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Console help
Old 19th May 2006
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Console help

hey im not really to familar with tracking and mixing on a board as i have been using a firepod and running the signal through outboard then into the firepod and dowing everything else in SX 3.2

but i am intrested in upgrading abit and i was wondering how you run the audio through the mixer and then outboard and then into a DAW or SX for me while that is pretty easy for me to comprehend the thing i cant is how you mix on a console with out it being a digital or like a MC-5 or something in that range

if you could give me a little crash course on it and some suggestions that would be amazing

Marc
Old 19th May 2006
  #2
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaJunk
hey im not really to familar with tracking and mixing on a board as i have been using a firepod and running the signal through outboard then into the firepod and dowing everything else in SX 3.2

but i am intrested in upgrading abit and i was wondering how you run the audio through the mixer and then outboard and then into a DAW or SX for me while that is pretty easy for me to comprehend the thing i cant is how you mix on a console with out it being a digital or like a MC-5 or something in that range

if you could give me a little crash course on it and some suggestions that would be amazing

Marc
Basically you need enough DA's to feed your console or summing box and then you assign your outputs from SX3 to the individual outputs...set faders at "zero" in the software and do your mixing on the analog desk.

If you've got a summing box you'd still use the automation & stuff in SX3 and place the faders wherever you'd like them to get a good mix.

I'm running a hybrid rig & do a little of both. Some things are submixed inside the box & sent to a pair of stereo outputs that feed channels on the analog console. Other things have faders set to "zero" and feed individual outputs on the DA's and individual channels on the console.

Right now I've got a mix up on my desk with 11 or 12 tracks of drums summed to 8 inputs on the console. Two tracks of bass are submixed ITB and hit the console on one channel. Each of the guitars & main vocals are going to their own faders, probably about a dozen tracks...backing vocals are submixed to pair of outputs. All the 'verbs & delays are patched to the analog desk and I'm using a small handful of plug-ins...gates on the toms, and the odd EQ & compressor here and there but the vast majority of the action comes from real outboard gear.

If you decide to go with an analog desk you'll need enough channels of DA to do whatever it is you want to do. I've got over 32 here...haven't used them all yet but I've come close a few times.

You can also do it with 8 or 16 channels of DA but really...IMO 16 is the bare minimum to make it worth doing.
Old 19th May 2006
  #3
Here for the gear
 

so pretty much i would need a lets say 24 D/A syned to get the playback then to do the mixing on the board i would need another 24 A/D that would go through a break box into SX.

is that about right, would A/D/A work or am i better of with seperate converters for each job also are there any kind of D/A's that are more than 8 channels other than the Apogee cuase i dont really wanna spend 3 G's per converter but i defently want something better than some behringers

again thanks for the help
Old 19th May 2006
  #4
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Well, you need as many channels of A/D/A as you need to get the project done.

Could be three...could be 60.

Most projects that I get in are hovering around 35-40 tracks, I sum that down to about 20-24 outputs even though I have 32 D/A's before I have to use the digital outs to feed "extra" converters. If I had to, I could run over 48 channels of D/A without blinking.

I'm using Motu boxes for the meat of the conversion, a 24 I/O and a 2408MkIII. The straight 24 sounds better IMO...the MkIII is for "extra" stuff and digital routing.

The sounds are fine IMO. I hear audio that's clean & it doesn't offend me or get in the way of the task at hand. And it wasn't $3K per 8 channels either! It's nice to have that stuff around but it's not a requirement & your not doomed to a life of horrible audio if you don't have that kind of stuff.

Really though, before doing anything you should ask yourself if you want or need to make the switch from mixing ITB to a hybrid setup.

Personally I find the hybrid rig to be great! I love the flexibility it offers & the speed is unmatched. If I stayed entirely ITB it would take me 3-4 as long to mix each song & and I'd need SOOO much CPU horsepower to do what I do that it'd be sick. For me working on an analog console is faster but I grew up & learned on big desks. Some people are faster & can get more done ITB, it's just a preference thing at this point.

Plus really...I prefer the sound of good analog gear as opposed to staying ITB. I do rock stuff, having some grease is good! If it's too clean it's almost unnerving to listen to.
Old 21st May 2006
  #5
Here for the gear
 

well the one thing that i still dont really understand though is ok your mixing right and you have all the D/A's and stuff but that only brings the digital to your board right how do you get the mix back to the DAW do you use the send returns or outputs

ideally lets say i have a motu 24i/o right i record my drums and guitars and bass and vocals i dont really wanna bounce tracks out except for overheads so i have

10 tacks of drums
stero track for overheads
4 mono tracks for 4 toms
2 mono tracks for kick
2 mono tracks for snare

6 mono tracks for bass
4 mono tracks for guitars
4 mono track for vocals

24 Tracks total
so would i need a total of 10 tracks seperatly for tracking right
then i need a 24 tracks for mixing right

but how do i route what i have coming out of the DAW using the 24 outs of the motu back into the daw with the right levels and is it basically i work on it till i get it to a liking and then record in real time or is there something else

marc
Old 21st May 2006
  #6
Gear Addict
 
emeline-rec's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaJunk
but how do i route what i have coming out of the DAW using the 24 outs of the motu back into the daw with the right levels and is it basically i work on it till i get it to a liking and then record in real time or is there something else

marc
basically yes, once you got the mix finished and how you want it you'd need to route the stereo output of the desk to some form of recording medium be it back into you're DAW or some other form of stereo medium then record the mix down in real time.
Old 21st May 2006
  #7
Gear Head
 
Shizampah's Avatar
if you're recording your mix in real time back into your DAW as a stereo mix, what do you do when the kazoo player wants his solo to bounce back and forth across the soundstage, etc...? you can't be saying that everytime you revise a mix you have to go back and "perform" your mix all over again?
I've just switched from complete ITB mixing to 8 stems on the board and I've been recording them back into the DAW divided into something like:
stereo drum track
bass
stereo guitars
vocals
backups
etc..

so basically i mix those stems and record them back into the DAW as more stems that stay at unity, so I can always go back and revise the mix when somethings wrong without going through the whole thing again. Does that make sense to anyone else? Or is there a better way that I'm missing?
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