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Jangley Guitars
Old 18th May 2006
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

Jangley Guitars

Hey Guys,

I'm recording a band at the moment and one of their songs has a jangley libertines/ percusive guitar part in and i was just wondering if there are any techniques anyone would like to share in how to treat this type of guitar. I want to make sure it doesn't sound too weedy considering the sound they are after is super clean and very jangley i'm not too sure how to approach it??

Thanks for your help.

RAH
Old 18th May 2006
  #2
Here for the gear
 

Sometimes I find this kind of sound works great absolutely dry. Just compressed a bit.
Old 18th May 2006
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Yea i know what you mean but it seems to feel a little weedy at present. I was thinking maybe compress it a fair bit on the distressor with the distortion 2 setting, to try and widen the sound a bit, but i'm not too sure. Maybe reamp it with slightly more gain and then balance the two to add a bit of depth to the sound? I'm just brainstorming so all suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Rah
Old 18th May 2006
  #4
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tvanveen's Avatar
 

What does weedy sound like?
Old 18th May 2006
  #5
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warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tvanveen
What does weedy sound like?
I'm very curious to know this also.

War
Old 18th May 2006
  #6
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PapillonIrl's Avatar
 

I'm guessing 'weedy' = lacking resonance and authority...

I like to get this kind of guitar sound right at the source...drive a good Fender twinish amp hard on the clean channel and to get that glassy shimmer and harmonically rich low-mid sound.

Hard to get that after the fact without reamping, and even then it's not right because the player will respond to that sort of sound while playing.

YMMV

Nathan
Old 18th May 2006
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Cheers,

Yea i think the source sound is good (fender twin driven hard on clean miced up with a md421 and a royer 121 through phoenix DRS2)

But i'm just after mix tips really, compressor, compression settings, reamping etc. I'm sure i'll get what i want with a little messing about but was just after some advice off some people who have dealt with this sound a lot.

RAH
Old 18th May 2006
  #8
Gear Head
 

This is going to sound counterintuitive, since you said you were looking for a clean sound--but it worked for me.

Run the 12-string through a Marshall tube amp. I used a JMP but an 800 would probably work fine. Don't crank it into major overdrive, just enough to let a good amount of natural tube compression creep in.

I did this with an old Burns 12-string (surprisingly hot pickups) and it really sings, and does not sound like the tone you'd associate with a cranked Marshall at all. Sits in the mix very nicely.


By the way, if you wanna' hear a really cool tone (not for this project, but a cool tone nonetheless), go ahead and crank the Marshall into strong overdrive and play (notes not chords) on that 12-string. Paint-peeler!
Old 18th May 2006
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PapillonIrl
I'm guessing 'weedy' = lacking resonance and authority...

I like to get this kind of guitar sound right at the source...drive a good Fender twinish amp hard on the clean channel and to get that glassy shimmer and harmonically rich low-mid sound.

Hard to get that after the fact without reamping, and even then it's not right because the player will respond to that sort of sound while playing.

YMMV

Nathan
Yeah I was thinking the same thing.

In addition, I would probably use a single coiled guitar with a maple fretboard....(like a Strat). If it needs more twang then I would go for the Tele.
If it needs more pop, then a rosewood fretboard strat...etc.

(BTW, sometimes a JC120 with a dash of chorus is just the ticket. The solid state unit doesnt breath like a valve amp...which acts as a compressor of sorts.)

Good luck,
David
Old 18th May 2006
  #10
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Whatever guitar needs to sound "jangly", detune it a whole step and put a capo on the second fret.
Old 18th May 2006
  #11
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vernier's Avatar
I've only heard "jangly" when Byrds were being described ..and in that case, Ric 360/12, Fender Showman, and all-tube chain, which Columbia studios had during that era.
Old 18th May 2006
  #12
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vernier
I've only heard "jangly" when Byrds were being described ..and in that case, Ric 360/12, Fender Showman, and all-tube chain, which Columbia studios had during that era.
I remember people using the word "jangly" when REM was playing clubs and Mitch Easter was 'fringe' and Dumptruck was a new band.
Old 18th May 2006
  #13
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chrispick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by max cooper
I remember people using the word "jangly" when REM was playing clubs and Mitch Easter was 'fringe' and Dumptruck was a new band.
Yeah, me too.

I think of "jangly guitars" as referring to bright, arpeggiated guitar parts usually played on Rickenbackers or Gretschs (often of the 12-string electric variety).

BTW, that down-tune, then capo concept sounds like an interesting technique. I'll have to try it sometime. I've certainly used a capo when doubling a part to rephrase a chord and still allow string ring-out. That can be a good trick that can add some jangle because it creates more open-chord ring.
Old 18th May 2006
  #14
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softwareguy's Avatar
 

I love my Gretsch, Strat & Tele, but Jangly=Rickenbacker.
Old 18th May 2006
  #15
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Dave Peck's Avatar
 

Hmm. I have always associated the term 'jangly guitars' to mean the sound you get with a Fender Jaguar and a Boss CE-2 pedal through a fairly clean bright amp. Like the guitar sound from "Walking on the Moon" by the Police.

DP
Old 18th May 2006
  #16
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softwareguy's Avatar
 

That's interesting. I could see that Fender -> JC120 thing being characterized that way, but, to me it is it's own specific sound, and there were people like Andy Summers that developed it and used it to create a very specific 80's vibe. Like Vernier and Cooper, I think of jangly as basically meaning the Birds and everyone who was influenced by Roger McGuinn's guitar playing. Notables are REM, especially the first two albums, and a lot of Tom Petty's stuff. There are usually a lot of open harmony parts played with double stops, often involving open strings ringing through, and the source is almost always a Rick into either a Fender or a Vox.
Old 18th May 2006
  #17
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Of course, it's entirely possible that RAH is actually going for that Andy Summers sound, I'm just responding to what has always been my understanding of "jangly."
Old 18th May 2006
  #18
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chrispick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Peck
Like the guitar sound from "Walking on the Moon" by the Police.
Interesting. I think of that as a lush, chorus/flange sound. Very archetypal 80s sound. Jangly, for me, always harkens back to 60s guitar stuff (or retro movements of that ilk).
Old 18th May 2006
  #19
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chrispick's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by softwareguy
That's interesting. I could see that Fender -> JC120 thing being characterized that way, but, to me it is it's own specific sound, and there were people like Andy Summers that developed it and used it to create a very specific 80's vibe. Like Vernier and Cooper, I think of jangly as basically meaning the Birds and everyone who was influenced by Roger McGuinn's guitar playing. Notables are REM, especially the first two albums, and a lot of Tom Petty's stuff. There are usually a lot of open harmony parts played with double stops, often involving open strings ringing through, and the source is almost always a Rick into either a Fender or a Vox.
Actually, this sums up my perception of "jangly" better than I did.
Old 18th May 2006
  #20
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PapillonIrl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by softwareguy
That's interesting. I could see that Fender -> JC120 thing being characterized that way, but, to me it is it's own specific sound, and there were people like Andy Summers that developed it and used it to create a very specific 80's vibe. Like Vernier and Cooper, I think of jangly as basically meaning the Birds and everyone who was influenced by Roger McGuinn's guitar playing. Notables are REM, especially the first two albums, and a lot of Tom Petty's stuff. There are usually a lot of open harmony parts played with double stops, often involving open strings ringing through, and the source is almost always a Rick into either a Fender or a Vox.

I think the original poster may have had a different sound in mind, the libertines reference would suggest so anyway.

Cheers,

Nathan
Old 18th May 2006
  #21
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softwareguy's Avatar
 

Totally missed that. Yeah, hmmm, that's really not "jangly" in my terminology, but it may be in yours. I really think of their guitar sound as being an edgy Fender-based sound that is more infulenced by the Clash, the Cure and probably originally Johnny Thunders and the New York Dolls. But if that's what you're goin' for, the idea of running strats and teles through Twins (JBL speakers anyone?) is probably the right idea.
Old 19th May 2006
  #22
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Hey! Mr. Tambourine Man, play a song for me,
I'm not sleepy and there is no place I'm going to.
Hey! Mr. Tambourine Man, play a song for me,
In the jingle jangle morning I'll come followin' you.

I read once that the Byrd's 12 string sound was recorded direct with compression and delay.

Now i'm not so sure.
Old 19th May 2006
  #23
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max cooper's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrispick
Yeah, me too.

I think of "jangly guitars" as referring to bright, arpeggiated guitar parts usually played on Rickenbackers or Gretschs (often of the 12-string electric variety).

BTW, that down-tune, then capo concept sounds like an interesting technique. I'll have to try it sometime. I've certainly used a capo when doubling a part to rephrase a chord and still allow string ring-out. That can be a good trick that can add some jangle because it creates more open-chord ring.
Yeah, it kind of simulates the sound of a short scale guitar. I actually thought of doing that because a friend had a really cheap 12 string that I learned my first chords on, and it was so hard to play and the action was so high that we used to have to use a capo to bring it up to pitch without turning the whole thing into a cheese grater by pulling the strings up so high.
Old 19th May 2006
  #24
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john caldwell's Avatar
Unfamiliar with the Libertines reference. Latley I've been tracking Rickenbacker 12 & 6 string direct, with Distressor shaving a few to several db with short attck times. Alternately, Twin Reverb clean, also compressed some.

John-
Old 19th May 2006
  #25
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jomo1234's Avatar
 

Don't forget those Pyramid flatwound strings! They really help give you that chimey, jangly tone.
Old 19th May 2006
  #26
Gear Maniac
 

Sorry libertines was a bad example.

Think Johnny Marr. The smiths
Old 19th May 2006
  #27
Ricky 12's have too much midrange for me, the necks are too thin to fit my fingers around, I like my custom Telecaster 12 string I made back in '79. That beast is acoustic clean when recorded direct, more 60's mid sounding when run through either my '66 Deluxe Reverb or my '65 Showman head. For a true 60's sound I also use my JBL E-120 speakers like what Carl Wilson used (the JBL D-120's).

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 19th May 2006
  #28
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Back to rah had said a while back, anyone else thing maybe the 421 isn't the best mic choice for that type of guitar sound? Senn. mics are too full-bodied for a "jangly" sound... I don't know what's in your mic cabinet, but I'd think a condenser mic may be a better route.

and I haven't tried the capo trick max mentioned, but it seems to me that sound comes from the guitar more than the amp... meaning you need to be more choosey with the guitar. Many amps will work, but you need a jangly sounding guitar. 12-strings would be great, but in a pinch, I'd say fender all the way through should get you there... i.e. a tele on bridge into slightly pushed fender amp...

And I know you were asking more for like compression/mixing techniques, but I don't know if that'll get you there. I could be completely wrong, though.
Old 19th May 2006
  #29
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Infernal Device's Avatar
 

Anytime I think of "jangley" I think of Shellac. Clunky and jangley kicks ass.

Really cheap guitar, really small practice amp with all the lows and mids turned down.
Old 19th May 2006
  #30
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corworld's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanvacha
anyone else thing maybe the 421 isn't the best mic choice for that type of guitar sound? Senn. mics are too full-bodied for a "jangly" sound...I'd say fender all the way through should get you there... i.e. a tele on bridge into slightly pushed fender amp...
The 421 has a lack of mids with a prescence peak and that is what the jangley sound is all about. Fender twin reverbs have a similar sound so try to two together. You might like it.

You guys got me pulling out some old REM and trying to get that sound. I found the tele middle position with just a little chorusing worked well to get that Peter Buck Ricky sound.
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