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I wish Pro tools had...
Old 17th May 2006
  #1
I wish Pro tools had...

a good way to do a virtual mix. Here is what I mean. You are working with a lot of tracks at once, have been mixing as you go along (to some degree) and then when you go to track, the musician says "I need a lot more of 'whatever' in the mix, take out 'x' and turn this down". With a big session, its a pain in the ass to do and then get back to where you were without losing track. I know you can basically take a snapshot and go back that way but how nice would it be to be able to push a button and suddenly be in a virtual mix? you could grab faders, mute things and do whatever you need to and then once you have tracked you simply snap back to the real mix for playback.

Any good/creative ways of doing this? Would anyone else find this usefull?
Old 17th May 2006
  #2
Gear Guru
Use an aux buss for the cue mix. Set all faders to 0, post fader, and you will have your original mix. Adjust the cue mix for the player, and then just return to the main faders for your mix.
Old 17th May 2006
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRobb
Use an aux buss for the cue mix. Set all faders to 0, post fader, and you will have your original mix. Adjust the cue mix for the player, and then just return to the main faders for your mix.
I really would like to avoid adding anymore channels and complicating the session when I already have 80 or so channels.
Old 17th May 2006
  #4
Gear Head
 
Rezman's Avatar
 

Set up a Cue mix on one of your sends (Pre Fader) and then use the "Copy to Send x" command to copy all automation and setting from you selected tracks to your cue send. Your entire mix will be on the cue send and you can then adjust that to the artists taste without messing with your main mix.

R
Old 17th May 2006
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rezman
Set up a Cue mix on one of your sends (Pre Fader) and then use the "Copy to Send x" command to copy all automation and setting from you selected tracks to your cue send. Your entire mix will be on the cue send and you can then adjust that to the artists taste without messing with your main mix.

R
Yeah. Definately a good way but I wish it would allow me to then have control of that mix with my C24 so I could just grab faders.
Old 17th May 2006
  #6
Gear Guru
No new channels needed. Use a send from the existing ones. Or, better yet, from group masters, if you have them.
Old 17th May 2006
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRobb
No new channels needed. Use a send from the existing ones. Or, better yet, from group masters, if you have them.
But it doesnt give me control on the faders of the control surface unles sI am misunderstanding (which is very possible after the long days its been).
Old 17th May 2006
  #8
Lives for gear
 
djui5's Avatar
 

good idea..

what would be nice would be to have a "history" window...similar to photoshop, where you can set a "save point" and go back to it if you wish..without having to hit apple z 50 times and hoping you remember every move you made....
Old 17th May 2006
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by djui5
good idea..

what would be nice would be to have a "history" window...similar to photoshop, where you can set a "save point" and go back to it if you wish..without having to hit apple z 50 times and hoping you remember every move you made....
7 has a history window but it will also erase whatever you just tracked if you try to go back. you can also take a snapshot and pull it back up but it isnt nearly as fast as having a virtual mix because you have to keep reassigning snapshots every time you make a change (like when you have to make a new group). I'm just trying to simplify my life as I have been working on a session that is absolutly out of control.
Old 17th May 2006
  #10
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Clip Audio
Yeah. Definately a good way but I wish it would allow me to then have control of that mix with my C24 so I could just grab faders.

been a while since I worked on a C24 ...... so don't ask me details.

You can flip your cue mix (or whatever sends you have in your session) to your faders and control your secondary mix like that.
Old 17th May 2006
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Lambrechts
been a while since I worked on a C24 ...... so don't ask me details.

You can flip your cue mix (or whatever sends you have in your session) to your faders and control your secondary mix like that.
Hmmm... the only thing I ever use flip for is switching between plug in parameters on the surface but thats a great idea. I will check that out tomorrow. If its that easy I will be REALLY happy and then promptly delete this post because I will fee like a moron.
Old 17th May 2006
  #12
Gear Addict
 
Relax's Avatar
 

Save session as...?
Old 17th May 2006
  #13
Gear Addict
 
lefthando's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Clip Audio
a good way to do a virtual mix. Here is what I mean. You are working with a lot of tracks at once, have been mixing as you go along (to some degree) and then when you go to track, the musician says "I need a lot more of 'whatever' in the mix, take out 'x' and turn this down". With a big session, its a pain in the ass to do and then get back to where you were without losing track. I know you can basically take a snapshot and go back that way but how nice would it be to be able to push a button and suddenly be in a virtual mix? you could grab faders, mute things and do whatever you need to and then once you have tracked you simply snap back to the real mix for playback.

Any good/creative ways of doing this? Would anyone else find this usefull?
It's an interesting idea. For now you could just disable the automation. Even just on the tracks requested
Old 17th May 2006
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relax
Save session as...?
Every time I record a pass and then want to play back with proper levels? I would also have to import all the new session data and tracks as well as have multiple session files befor I could listen with the proper levels. I think that would complicate things a lot. At least for how I work.
Old 17th May 2006
  #15
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Lambrechts
been a while since I worked on a C24 ...... so don't ask me details.

You can flip your cue mix (or whatever sends you have in your session) to your faders and control your secondary mix like that.
Exactly. select the aux and hit flip. Now the cue mix is on the faders.
Old 17th May 2006
  #16
It might seem lazy but it would still be really nice to be able to do this on the fly without having to create any more routing. Some of the bussing on some of the sessions is a bit insane and it would complicate things (even if only a little). where is the magic button? heh
Old 18th May 2006
  #17
Lives for gear
How about writing down what changes you're making if you're not sure whether you're going to keep it or not? People forget about pen and paper sometimes. I wish Protools has a button to get me beer and light my cigarette.
Old 18th May 2006
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoorGlory
How about writing down what changes you're making if you're not sure whether you're going to keep it or not? People forget about pen and paper sometimes. I wish Protools has a button to get me beer and light my cigarette.

I dont think its that unreasonable to not want to have to search through loads of tracks, turn things off and on, remove automation etc to do little simple overdubs or to do a take and then listen back... then do it over again. I use a pen and paper for outboard gear but when tracking big sessions with tons of overdubs and clients who just insist on insanity, it could save a good deal of time in the long run. It sounds lazy but I think it would save more time than people think in some cases.
Old 18th May 2006
  #19
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djui5's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Clip Audio
7 has a history window but it will also erase whatever you just tracked if you try to go back. you can also take a snapshot and pull it back up but it isnt nearly as fast as having a virtual mix because you have to keep reassigning snapshots every time you make a change (like when you have to make a new group). I'm just trying to simplify my life as I have been working on a session that is absolutly out of control.

It's my understanding that your just mixing right, not recording audio? If your recording something, then just record it, then do your automation moves, and go back to the point right after the recording if you need to. Wouldn't that work? Also, you could just disable the tracks that you recorded if you don't need them.

I don't understand how the history window wouldn't work...it's the same as a virtual mix IMO.
Old 18th May 2006
  #20
Gear Addict
 
lefthando's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Clip Audio
I dont think its that unreasonable to not want to have to search through loads of tracks, turn things off and on, remove automation etc to do little simple overdubs or to do a take and then listen back... then do it over again. I use a pen and paper for outboard gear but when tracking big sessions with tons of overdubs and clients who just insist on insanity, it could save a good deal of time in the long run. It sounds lazy but I think it would save more time than people think in some cases.

All you have to do is hold option and turn off auto on one track. All automation will be disabled.

Further, didn't you say you are on a control 24? That's even easier. Over on your left, there is the "auto suspend" button. You could even choose which parameters you want to suspend, preserving things like plug-in or aux send autiomation.
Old 18th May 2006
  #21
Lives for gear
 
drew's Avatar
first of all i'd use a send so the headphone mix doesn't effect you in the first place.

or

enable the ALL group, select volume playlists and click to place a breakpoint at the top of all tracks. then suspend auto with either the dedicated button as stated or in the Auto Enable window (command-4), do what you need to do. when you're done, re-enable the auto and all will snap back to where they were.
Old 18th May 2006
  #22
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Kingtone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Clip Audio
Yeah. Definately a good way but I wish it would allow me to then have control of that mix with my C24 so I could just grab faders.
have a read of that annoying book they gave you with the C24 called the manual! heh

the C24 can control Aux sends... just hit the appropriate button.. and WooHooo... look at those faders jump to the Aux settings!thumbsup
Old 18th May 2006
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by djui5
It's my understanding that your just mixing right, not recording audio? If your recording something, then just record it, then do your automation moves, and go back to the point right after the recording if you need to. Wouldn't that work? Also, you could just disable the tracks that you recorded if you don't need them.

I don't understand how the history window wouldn't work...it's the same as a virtual mix IMO.
Well its like this... I have a guy now whos track counts are pretty insane. there is a lot going on in the sessions in terms of groups and busses. He is doing a billion little overdubs and with each one he asks to change the mix so he can hear more or less of whatever he needs. then, a few seconds (literally) later, he wants to hear it in the proper context of how it is mixed so far. With so many channels, it just takes a bit of scrolling through banks and finding the proper channels quickly to do what he needs and then undo it right afterwords for playback.

The difference between the history window and what I was after is that a virtual mix would essentially remove all the automation (if any) and allow me to do whatever I wanted on the channels and then switch back and forth between the mixes without one changing the other. That way when we go back into the 'tracking' or 'virtual' mix, the levels would be right back where he needed them for the next overdub.

There are a lot of good suggestions and workarounds that I will try. I guess I was just hoping for something streamlined that saves time. After all, thats what I love about Pro Tools. Its the little functions that speed up the workflow.
Old 18th May 2006
  #24
Gear Head
 
Rezman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Clip Audio
Yeah. Definately a good way but I wish it would allow me to then have control of that mix with my C24 so I could just grab faders.
On the C|24 just hit Sends and Flip. Voila - Cue mix on the faders.

Or as Frank Zappa says, tell him to just "Shudup and play yer guitar"...
Old 18th May 2006
  #25
Well it seems as if its a simple case of RTFM on my part. Thanks for the replies guys.
Old 18th May 2006
  #26
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Jeff16years's Avatar
 

i like your idea and i have also been it that situation. Or even this, you are done mixing a project and you think it sounds perfect. the singer wants to add a little harmony part but in order to do that SHE (notice the female singer) needs the entire mix to be different.

so what I have done is save my mix, track her vocal, save as "song new harmony" and then import it into my "perfect" mix.
yes, this is kind of an obvios solution, it would be nice if there was an easier way
...well there probably is, I'm sure that someone with more knowlege than i has a better way.
Old 18th May 2006
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Jeff16years's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff16years
i like your idea and i have also been it that situation. Or even this, you are done mixing a project and you think it sounds perfect. the singer wants to add a little harmony part but in order to do that SHE (notice the female singer) needs the entire mix to be different.

so what I have done is save my mix, track her vocal, save as "song new harmony" and then import it into my "perfect" mix.
yes, this is kind of an obvios solution, it would be nice if there was an easier way
...well there probably is, I'm sure that someone with more knowlege than i has a better way.

weird when i resonded to this the first time I didn't see all the other replies, I thought that I was the first one, but now that I have read all the other replies, I have learned some things today.
-thanks
Old 18th May 2006
  #28
Gear Guru
Guys- you're making this waaaay to complicated. Go to prefs and set new sends to have the faders at unity. Hold option and add a send, this will add it to all tracks. Make a send master and have it come out a second pair of outputs. When it's time to overdub, monitor the alternate pair. It will have an the same mix as the main pair. Since the sends are post fader, they will follow the fader levels and automation, but the send faders have no automation. Put the sends on the faders of the C24. If the singer wants more vocal and less guitar, just move the faders. If you want to hear the new track in the main mix, monitor the main pair. To go back to the cue mix, monitor the alternate pair.

Or you can monitor the main mix in the control room and send the cue mix to the singer's cans. This is really the best way to do ODS anyway.
Old 18th May 2006
  #29
Gear Guru
 
Kenny Gioia's Avatar
 

Consider all points mentioned as they all will help.

If your session is really this complicated then the easiest thing you could do is set up some simple busses for making different mixes.

Make an extra set of busses for the cue:

1. Drum Buss
2. Bass Buss
3. Guitar Buss
4. Keyboard Buss
5. Lead Vocal Buss
6. Bk Vox Buss

Use multiple outputs on each track so that they keep going where they are now, plus to these special busses.

Set the output of theses special buses to the cue and you can quickly make a new cue mix without adjusting 80 something faders.
Old 18th May 2006
  #30
Lives for gear
 
Steve G's Avatar
I know it's already been said, but it seems to me that the quickest was around your problem is to just suspend all the automation. When your done recording, turn it back on.

Steve
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